The official running thread™

[RunningFromFat]

Have you got intervals or sprints in your program? They can help boost your aerobic capacity (VO2 Max.)

If you are sustaining a faster pace but your heart rate has increased, this may indicate that you have improved your anaerobic threshold - this is also a good thing as it means you can run at a higher intensity whilst still using your aerobic energy system which is what you want for endurance.

I'm still trying to build my endurance, only been running for about 4 months but from starting from the beginning. I feel like I'm not building enough aerobic and every run is majority anaerobic which isn't good for endurance correct?

 

[InvisibleJim]

I'm still trying to build my endurance, only been running for about 4 months but from starting from the beginning. I feel like I'm not building enough aerobic and every run is majority anaerobic which isn't good for endurance correct?

It's true that your lactate/glycogen anaerobic system is what you use for say a 400m race at max effort so if you are sustaining effort for longer than that, you must be still mainly in the aerobic space but if your effort feels hard and you are getting breathless, you are probably approaching your anaerobic threshold - so the higher your anaerobic threshold, the faster pace you can sustain.

Like you say, you are only a few months into your running journey, so I'm sorry, perhaps I'm being more technical than I should be for you at this point - bearing this in mind, what you are doing is perfectly OK and maybe you don't need to worry about this stuff until you get a little further down the road. At least you're aware of it and can look into it more when it suits.

 

[wise_guy]

I'm still trying to build my endurance, only been running for about 4 months but from starting from the beginning. I feel like I'm not building enough aerobic and every run is majority anaerobic which isn't good for endurance correct?

Correct
Best is the walk/run strategy. Find out what your lactate threshold/aerobic capacity is and keep you heart rate low by walking it down.
This is especially critical during the first 3km of your run.

 

[wise_guy]

I'm curious to know how you managed to plan it in a way that you ended back at home and not some random place

Theres a cool app called footpath to plan your runs even shows elevation to avoid those dreaded hills.

 

[The_MAC]

to avoid those dreaded hills.

I actually want the hills, it's the only way to train for all types of runs, road or trail.

 

[The_MAC]

Got new running shoes recently and they are comfortable - I certainly don't experience any discomfort, and these shoes are much kinder to impact on my knees... however my middle toes seem to be taking quite a bit of damage... blood blisters on the tip of the toe and even under the toenail. I'm not even sure whether it's because of pressure or friction... there isn't much pain at all, it just looks kind of terrible.

Are they the same size as your foot?

What I actually want to say, always buy one size bigger, even hiking shoes, you don't want your toes pounding the front on downhills. Providing, that is the cause of your pain.

 

[RunningFromFat]

More parkruns should be back since lvl 2 is back. My local one should return cause numbers are always around 200 people. My knee giving me a slight niggle though so might want to rest it this week.

 

[Claymore]

I had an entertaining run on Saturday. I quite enjoy "adventuring" - going out and finding new places, especially on the ridges out on the West Rand. I went out for a trot up to Willem Conradie Park in Florida, climbed the koppies there, crossed the source of the Limpopo (getting some nasty scratches on my legs from thorns while doing so), and trotted back to the gym. Always entertaining.

 

[TofuMofu]

More parkruns should be back since lvl 2 is back. My local one should return cause numbers are always around 200 people. My knee giving me a slight niggle though so might want to rest it this week.

Hoping ours opens. I see MyRun opened at the same venue so can't see why Parkrun can't open as well.

 

[Scary_Turtle]

On the same topic, my VO2Max estimate according to my Apple Watch was at 50,3 in mid August... since then my perception is that my fitness level has increased, as I am able to run faster and longer distances with less effort, but yet the readings have gone down to 49,4... I can only assume it has to do with my weight loss which went up slightly before it dropped by 2Kgs on average during the past few weeks. Body fat percentage also went down, which implies VO2Max should be higher, but I guess with smartwatches, they don't always get it right.

I don't know too much about vo2 max but I know how to change it pretty quickly but not easily haha.

If you run most of the time at 6min/km and for one week run at 5:30 your vo2 max will increase dramatically (1-4 points) increase to 5:00 and it will go up again etc etc. Not easy to increase your pace by 1min/km.

This will go up if you are just running 5kms at a faster pace than usual and if you do a slower long run it will go down.

During marathon season my Vo2max dropped to about 52 and when I was training speed I think it was sitting at around 60 maybe a bit under.

The problem is you have to train distance to train speed so its a double edge sword. Add 6 speed sessions a month and watch VO2max go up especially if you do 2 sessions in a week.

 

[Scary_Turtle]

Got new running shoes recently and they are comfortable - I certainly don't experience any discomfort, and these shoes are much kinder to impact on my knees... however my middle toes seem to be taking quite a bit of damage... blood blisters on the tip of the toe and even under the toenail. I'm not even sure whether it's because of pressure or friction... there isn't much pain at all, it just looks kind of terrible.

I get the same but only at 30km+ distances. Your feet grow used to it and get calluses in my experience, once you lose a toenail or it goes purple your feet have to adjust quickly.

 

[Agent_Smith]

General rule of thumb (or toe in this case) is to buy your running shoes a size bigger than your day to day pair as your feet swell during a long run

 

[Agent_Smith]

Congrats to all who did the Table Mountain Challenge this past Sunday. Looks like it was a beast @ChrisJ not sure if you were out there.

I did a 30km run from the Pipe Track, up over Kasteelspoort, down to Constantia Nek, around to the Blockhouse and across the face of the mountain and back to Kloof Corner. Busy training for the 45km Maxirace in October. Feeling horribly underdone!

 

[InvisibleJim]

I don't know too much about vo2 max but I know how to change it pretty quickly but not easily haha.

If you run most of the time at 6min/km and for one week run at 5:30 your vo2 max will increase dramatically (1-4 points) increase to 5:00 and it will go up again etc etc. Not easy to increase your pace by 1min/km.

This will go up if you are just running 5kms at a faster pace than usual and if you do a slower long run it will go down.

During marathon season my Vo2max dropped to about 52 and when I was training speed I think it was sitting at around 60 maybe a bit under.

The problem is you have to train distance to train speed so its a double edge sword. Add 6 speed sessions a month and watch VO2max go up especially if you do 2 sessions in a week.

I think what you are describing would fall under the term 'tempo run' - a sustained effort just below your anaerobic threshold.

What's quite cool is that anyone could adjust this to their current level and could progressively increase their target pace on successive tempo runs.

Just out of interest, would it have been feasible to include some of this type of training in your marathon program? Hanging on to a bit more of that hard earned VO2 Max wouldn't hurt!

 

[Scary_Turtle]

I think what you are describing would fall under the term 'tempo run' - a sustained effort just below your anaerobic threshold.

What's quite cool is that anyone could adjust this to their current level and could progressively increase their target pace on successive tempo runs.

Just out of interest, would it have been feasible to include some of this type of training in your marathon program? Hanging on to a bit more of that hard earned VO2 Max wouldn't hurt!

For me its a time thing I have a pretty heavy job, a good social life, many hobbies, cycling and just don't have the time to fit it in as much as someone who is focused on a 3 hour marathon.

I generally do track/speed work twice a week from 5:30 with a group of friends before work but in winter its too dark/cold.

Following something like this
400m - 1st 100m @ 120% 80% for 300m 100m walk in 1 min
400m - 2nd 100m @ 120% 80% for 300m 100m walk in 1 min
400m - 3rd 100m @ 120% 80% for 300m 100m walk in 1 min
400m - 4th 100m @ 120% 80% for 300m 100m walk in 1 min
400m - 1st 200m @ 115% 80% for 300m 100m walk in 1 min
400m - 2nd 200m @ 115% 80% for 300m 100m walk in 1 min
400m - 1st 300m @ 110% 80% for 300m 100m walk in 1 min
400m - 2nd 300m @ 110% 80% for 300m 100m walk in 1 min

400m recovery job

Repeat but at 300m instead of 400m

When finished you have done about 10kms

 

[Jehosefat]

Hanging on to a bit more of that hard earned VO2 Max wouldn't hurt!

It's not actually your VO2Max that changes that much, it's the algorithm that estimates it giving differing answers depending on how hard your run was. The closer to your actual VO2Max your running effort is, the better the estimate will be. Trying to estimate VO2Max from a zone 2 run is pretty inaccurate regardless of the method used.

 

[wise_guy]

I actually want the hills, it's the only way to train for all types of runs, road or trail.

From personal experience and what I've read, majority of runs need to be easy on flat surfaces with a dedicated day to hills and/or intervals once or twice a week.
Otherwise you're just red lining all the time - increasing risk of fatigue and injury.

It's fine if you're getting enough rest after a hill session and then do another.

 

[wise_guy]

For me its a time thing I have a pretty heavy job, a good social life, many hobbies, cycling and just don't have the time to fit it in as much as someone who is focused on a 3 hour marathon.

I generally do track/speed work twice a week from 5:30 with a group of friends before work but in winter its too dark/cold.

Following something like this
400m - 1st 100m @ 120% 80% for 300m 100m walk in 1 min
400m - 2nd 100m @ 120% 80% for 300m 100m walk in 1 min
400m - 3rd 100m @ 120% 80% for 300m 100m walk in 1 min
400m - 4th 100m @ 120% 80% for 300m 100m walk in 1 min
400m - 1st 200m @ 115% 80% for 300m 100m walk in 1 min
400m - 2nd 200m @ 115% 80% for 300m 100m walk in 1 min
400m - 1st 300m @ 110% 80% for 300m 100m walk in 1 min
400m - 2nd 300m @ 110% 80% for 300m 100m walk in 1 min

400m recovery job

Repeat but at 300m instead of 400m

When finished you have done about 10kms

The 120% is 20% faster than your 5k, 10k or marathon race pace?

 

[The_MAC]

From personal experience and what I've read, majority of runs need to be easy on flat surfaces with a dedicated day to hills and/or intervals once or twice a week.
Otherwise you're just red lining all the time - increasing risk of fatigue and injury.

It's fine if you're getting enough rest after a hill session and then do another.

The thing is, I often do multi-stage hikes or trail runs, so doing a few days in succession is required to build that stamina, but absolutely, rest is very important and sometimes counter-intuitive.

 

[Jehosefat]

The thing is, I often do multi-stage hikes or trail runs, so doing a few days in succession is required to build that stamina, but absolutely, rest is very important and sometimes counter-intuitive.

Nothing wrong with working out many days in succession (my longest continuous streak is 33 days in a row, almost entirely cycling though). The issue is how often you do really hard sessions (especially hard running sessions). Like doing multiple hill repeat sessions in a row is a good way to get injured but if you space them with a slower session or two in between it's much better for your body.