The Poynting antenna discussion thread

[Koontz132]

Hello All

I am new to the forum and would like to ask a question.

Mtn gives me 3 bars of signal and about 18mbps without antennas, with antenna about 31Mbps, just a pity data costs more with afrihost.

I have just installed a Poynting xpol-02 v2 and have been testing on Telkom mobile, signal has gone from 1 to 3 bars and speed from 4mbps to 15.7mbps, this is on a Huawei B593-601. Telkom tower is about 5km away and I do not have line of site as I sit in a dip.

If I was to install a pair of Lpda -0092 antennas would I still see an improvement in signal and speed? What sort of speed increase could I see with 4 or 5 bars of signal compared to 3 Bars?

I realize this is difficult to answer without actual testing but I was looking more for an idea of what to expect with the signal increase.

 

[Azimuth]

Hi Guys

Im going to be upgrading soon to telkom LTE just looking for advice for the best antenna for Gaming and consistent internet.

Thanks

There's no antenna suited to gaming as such. If you want the best possible signal increase, the king of antennas is a pair of LPDA-0092. The runner up would be the XPOL-06.

 

[Azimuth]

Hello All

I am new to the forum and would like to ask a question.

Mtn gives me 3 bars of signal and about 18mbps without antennas, with antenna about 31Mbps, just a pity data costs more with afrihost.

I have just installed a Poynting xpol-02 v2 and have been testing on Telkom mobile, signal has gone from 1 to 3 bars and speed from 4mbps to 15.7mbps, this is on a Huawei B593-601. Telkom tower is about 5km away and I do not have line of site as I sit in a dip.

If I was to install a pair of Lpda -0092 antennas would I still see an improvement in signal and speed? What sort of speed increase could I see with 4 or 5 bars of signal compared to 3 Bars?

I realize this is difficult to answer without actual testing but I was looking more for an idea of what to expect with the signal increase.

Your best possible chance for improvement is indeed is to set up a pair of well elevated LPDA-0092. This is a high-gain antenna whereas the XPOL-02 is medium-high gain. It's impossible to predict the amount of signal increase but I would bargain on 4 bars or so. Remember to experiment with direction in small increments.

 

[Koontz132]

Your best possible chance for improvement is indeed is to set up a pair of well elevated LPDA-0092. This is a high-gain antenna whereas the XPOL-02 is medium-high gain. It's impossible to predict the amount of signal increase but I would bargain on 4 bars or so. Remember to experiment with direction in small increments.

Hello Azimuth

Thank you for your reply. I am situated quite close to you in the Tarlton area. I am quite a distance outside the coverage area according to Telkom so I needed to check for maximum results before signing up for the home LTE 50GB package.

That is the way I setup the xpol-02 v2 small increments and I now seem to be pointing at the sweet spot I saw 22.62Mbps down and 3.72 Up earlier this evening but its not constant it fluctuates between 14 and 22mbps.

What sort of speed are the guys with 4 bars of signal experiencing?

 

[Azimuth]

Unfortunately there's not always a correlation between signal bars and speed. I've done installs where there is full signal but maximum speed is only 30Mbps. Not all cell towers are capable of 100Mbps.

If you're out at Tarlton, I'd definitely go for bust and rig up a pair of LPDA-0092 with good elevation. Even if you can get proper LTE upload only (7-8Mbps), I'd consider that a win. A high upload speed counts a lot for the real LTE experience.

 

[jcheek]

I am situated quite close to you in the Tarlton area. I am quite a distance outside the coverage area according to Telkom so I needed to check for maximum results before signing up for the home LTE 50GB package.

The coverage maps are not an exact science and drawn up for "typical" conditions (usually indoor with built-in antennas). The situation is usually already vastly better from your rooftop. If you can get any kind of signal from your rooftop (and it seems you can), then you're cooking with gas and outdoor external antennas can start to get you huge gains (haha).
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That is the way I setup the xpol-02 v2 small increments and I now seem to be pointing at the sweet spot I saw 22.62Mbps down and 3.72 Up earlier this evening but its not constant it fluctuates between 14 and 22mbps.

Good technique. If you can, it's also very helpful to become familiar with the station locations (MTN/Telkom) in your area. Even if you're far away, you may have more than one option and this can also inform your choice of antenna and which station to go for. Also note that since MTN and Telkom have an infrastructure-sharing agreement, it's quite common to find Telkom LTE equipment at the same stations as MTN. Many stations have all four operators on them.
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Some other pointers :

1. If you haven't already done so, also have a look at the Antenna installation and alignment thread for lots of info on setting up antennas, mostly based on LTE, the B593 and Telkom Mobile.

2. Become familiar with the B593's "signal stats" page (System / Diagnosis / Wireless Status) and use the RSSI/RSRP/RSRQ figures there to get a more quantitative idea of your actual signal parameters and how they vary with antenna type(s) and alignments.

3. Have a look at the graphs in the document attached to this post to get some idea of how communication performance can vary with signal parameters. As you've said yourself, there are no guarantees and each situation is unique, but this will give you some of idea of the range of signals and speeds that are possible.

4. As regards different stations that might be reachable in your area : As Azimuth points out, even with good signal, they can perform quite differently due to other constraints. If you're up for it, I'd suggest doing some "tower prospecting" as I described here.
Once you know which station locations look like the most likely candidates (based on location, line-of-sight (or not), and performance), you can make informed antenna choices.

What sort of speed are the guys with 4 bars of signal experiencing?

See (3) above.
For a more simplistic snapshot (plain speed), you can also have a look here.

 

[Koontz132]

Thank you Azimuth and Jcheek for all the advice much appreciated.

The coverage maps are not an exact science and drawn up for "typical" conditions (usually indoor with built-in antennas). The situation is usually already vastly better from your rooftop. If you can get any kind of signal from your rooftop (and it seems you can), then you're cooking with gas and outdoor external antennas can start to get you huge gains (haha).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



Good technique. If you can, it's also very helpful to become familiar with the station locations (MTN/Telkom) in your area. Even if you're far away, you may have more than one option and this can also inform your choice of antenna and which station to go for. Also note that since MTN and Telkom have an infrastructure-sharing agreement, it's quite common to find Telkom LTE equipment at the same stations as MTN. Many stations have all four operators on them.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



Some other pointers :

1. If you haven't already done so, also have a look at the Antenna installation and alignment thread for lots of info on setting up antennas, mostly based on LTE, the B593 and Telkom Mobile.

2. Become familiar with the B593's "signal stats" page (System / Diagnosis / Wireless Status) and use the RSSI/RSRP/RSRQ figures there to get a more quantitative idea of your actual signal parameters and how they vary with antenna type(s) and alignments.

3. Have a look at the graphs in the document attached to this post to get some idea of how communication performance can vary with signal parameters. As you've said yourself, there are no guarantees and each situation is unique, but this will give you some of idea of the range of signals and speeds that are possible.

4. As regards different stations that might be reachable in your area : As Azimuth points out, even with good signal, they can perform quite differently due to other constraints. If you're up for it, I'd suggest doing some "tower prospecting" as I described here.
Once you know which station locations look like the most likely candidates (based on location, line-of-sight (or not), and performance), you can make informed antenna choices.


See (3) above.
For a more simplistic snapshot (plain speed), you can also have a look here.

I have studied all the available maps for the area and found three Mtn towers closer than the Telkom tower I am currently using. I used google earth and landmarks to determine the distance and exact direction to point the antenna. If I point to any of the local Mtn towers a get no telkom lte signal which seems to be consistant with the Telkom coverage map. All the Telkom lte coverage seems to the south of me.

Just wish afrihost will also do 50Gb at R699 as I have brilliant Mtn Lte coverage lol.

My current signal stats look like this :

Wireless Status
1 PLMN: 65502
2 Service status: Valid service
3 RSSI (dBm): -78.0
4 RSRP (dBm): -104.0
5 RSRQ (dB): -6.0
6 Roaming: No

I am a Ham Radio operator so understand how antennas work but most of my testing and operating is in the long distance bands 3.5 - 28mhz with 30 meter towers and antennas with 11 meter booms and 15 meter elements.

I have no experience in the high frequencies so was not sure how they react over a bit of distance.

 

[jcheek]

Thank you Azimuth and Jcheek for all the advice much appreciated.

Pleasure, and welcome!

I am a Ham Radio operator so understand how antennas work but most of my testing and operating is in the long distance bands 3.5 - 28mhz with 30 meter towers and antennas with 11 meter booms and 15 meter elements.
I have no experience in the high frequencies so was not sure how they react over a bit of distance.

Great! You are the perfect candidate

I have studied all the available maps for the area and found three Mtn towers closer than the Telkom tower I am currently using. I used google earth and landmarks to determine the distance and exact direction to point the antenna. If I point to any of the local Mtn towers a get no telkom lte signal which seems to be consistent with the Telkom coverage map. All the Telkom lte coverage seems to the south of me.

Outstanding!
I would suggest going just one step further and actually driving to each to have a look (and doing some close-range testing .) It's surprising what you can see and learn by actually being and testing at the station (one thing you can't generally do with HF comms !) Take this tower-format base station near me, for example :

MTN station on the left. Note the white cabinet on the right ...


.. which turns out to be Telkom Mobile on the same mast.

Also note the little conical active GPS antenna in the top photo, which is a reasonably good indicator for Telkom LTE.

Nothing beats actually actually knowing where the stations are and what equipment is there.

Going further, I find that the "tower prospecting" is hugely useful. There are some stations in my area where even the strongest signal gets you pathetic performance. Taking that same station as an example, this is what I achieved parked 30m away from it :




About the strongest signal in the business (-41dBm !) but only -8dB RSRQ and a paltry 1Mbps.
Pretty pointless pointing a Poynting at this one, until Telkom sorts it out.

Just wish afrihost will also do 50Gb at R699 as I have brilliant Mtn Lte coverage lol.

Not sure how it works on contract, but on Telkom Mobile prepaid you can now roam on MTN at the same data price (apparently), albeit only on 3G (for now?).

We only have one data price now so prepaid clients will also benefit from the "One Rate"
Regards
Charl Olivier
Telkom Social Media Team

Technically I have tried it with the new "all-network" 50GB/R1799 TM package and it does work on 3G.

My current signal stats look like this :
Wireless Status
1 PLMN: 65502
2 Service status: Valid service
3 RSSI (dBm): -78.0
4 RSRP (dBm): -104.0
5 RSRQ (dB): -6.0
6 Roaming: No

Actually not bad signal stats at all. Maybe time to look for other station options, if any ?

 

[Azimuth]

The limit for RSRP (we are talking LTE in particular here) is around -120dBm. A signal strength of -104dBm RSRP isn't great and is a sure candidate for LPDA-0092 big guns.

To put things into perspective, besides jcheek's helpful links, I currently get -78dBm RSRP without an outdoor antenna. My tower is capable of 100Mbps. These days I'm only getting 16Mbps down and 8Mbps up (even off peak). My RSRQ however is a warning sign at -9dB.

I used to get 70+ Mbps. Go figure. I *still* signed up for the HomeOffice LTE 50GB "Futurehood" deal @ R699. (My area isn't on the list for the R599 deal)

 

[Koontz132]

The limit for RSRP (we are talking LTE in particular here) is around -120dBm. A signal strength of -104dBm RSRP isn't great and is a sure candidate for LPDA-0092 big guns.

To put things into perspective, besides jcheek's helpful links, I currently get -78dBm RSRP without an outdoor antenna. My tower is capable of 100Mbps. These days I'm only getting 16Mbps down and 8Mbps up (even off peak). My RSRQ however is a warning sign at -9dB.

I used to get 70+ Mbps. Go figure. I *still* signed up for the HomeOffice LTE 50GB "Futurehood" deal @ R699. (My area isn't on the list for the R599 deal)

Hello Azimuth and Jcheek

I have bought and installed two lpda-0092's and set them about 500mm below each other and inline with each other.

I tried turning about 20mm at a time while watching my wireless status.

I now get:Wireless Status
1 PLMN: 65502
2 Service status: Valid service
3 RSSI (dBm): -71.0 Before -78.0
4 RSRP (dBm): -98.0 Before - 104.0
5 RSRQ (dB): -6.0
6 Roaming: No

Speed wise now at 17.37 down and 4.63 up.

Does this seem to be about the right increase for these antennas over the xpol -02 V2?

 

[jcheek]

I have bought and installed two lpda-0092's and set them about 500mm below each other and inline with each other.

And at 0°/90°, or 45°/135° ?

I now get:
1 PLMN: 65502
2 Service status: Valid service
3 RSSI (dBm): -71.0 Before -78.0
4 RSRP (dBm): -98.0 Before - 104.0
5 RSRQ (dB): -6.0
6 Roaming: No

Does this seem to be about the right increase for these antennas over the xpol -02 V2?

Well, between the XPOL-0002 (7dBi) and the LPDA-0092 (11dBi) there's about 4dB difference at 2300MHz, so you've actually done quite a bit better, I'd say : you're showing 6dBm improvement in both figures, still with a solid RSRQ.

Speed wise now at 17.37 down and 4.63 up.

You actually have good signals now (they weren't too shabby before).
Looks to me like there's a constraint on the base station. What's also interesting is that your upload speed is quite good : I generally don't see an upload speed much more than 10% of the download speed.
That suggests a download constraint on the station itself, IMO.

I'd still suggest taking a drive to the station you believe you're pointing at, and seeing what it's capable of when the antenna variable is taken out of the equation.

 

[Koontz132]

And at 0°/90°, or 45°/135° ?


Well, between the XPOL-0002 (7dBi) and the LPDA-0092 (11dBi) there's about 4dB difference at 2300MHz, so you've actually done quite a bit better, I'd say : you're showing 6dBm improvement in both figures, still with a solid RSRQ.


You actually have good signals now (they weren't too shabby before).
Looks to me like there's a constraint on the base station. What's also interesting is that your upload speed is quite good : I generally don't see an upload speed much more than 10% of the download speed.
That suggests a download constraint on the station itself, IMO.

I'd still suggest taking a drive to the station you believe you're pointing at, and seeing what it's capable of when the antenna variable is taken out of the equation.

Hi Jcheek

I have the antennas mounted at 0/90.

How important is the accuracy of the spacing between them? I did not measure the distance but estimated. Poynting Cape says they can be close together but Poynting Jhb says they have to be spaced 500mm apart.

I did drive to a few towers this afternoon and could spot no telkom mobile Lte on them. The one I am pointing to has the white cabinet and the gps antenna.

I have no portable LTE device but we do have a vehicle with an inverter so I will use the B593 and give the test near the tower a try this weekend.

 

[jcheek]

How important is the accuracy of the spacing between them? I did not measure the distance but estimated. Poynting Cape says they can be close together but Poynting Jhb says they have to be spaced 500mm apart.

When the two elements of an LTE antenna array achieve signal diversity by being orthogonally-polarised (as in your case), then the spacing between them is not material, provided only that they do not interfere (couple) with each other. In theory the two antennas could even be mounted on the same boom.
Your spacing of 0.5m is fine, and it's not critical at all.
It is only in installations where the two antenna elements have the same polarisation and achieve signal diversity by means of spacing (as with two vertical whips, for instance), that the distance between them becomes significant and needs to be tweaked for optimum performance.

I did drive to a few towers this afternoon and could spot no telkom mobile Lte on them. The one I am pointing to has the white cabinet and the gps antenna.

Okay, sounds pretty conclusive.
You mentioned (I think) that you don't have clear line-of-sight to that station as you're in something of a dip. On Google Earth, how does the elevation profile between you and that station look ?

I have no portable LTE device but we do have a vehicle with an inverter so I will use the B593 and give the test near the tower a try this weekend.

Great!. Keen to hear what you find.

PS: You will shortly have PM.

 

[Azimuth]

Tuned in for your updates, @Koontz132. Great posts as always @jcheek!

Any chance of some installation and landscape photos, @Koontz132?

 

[Koontz132]

Tuned in for your updates, @Koontz132. Great posts as always @jcheek!

Any chance of some installation and landscape photos, @Koontz132?

Hi @Azimuth

I will take a few in the morning and post them for you

 

[Azimuth]

@Koontz132 what happened to you?

 

[Azimuth]

A small update of my own:

I've been on Telkom LTE since the trial and have enjoyed high-speed internet, especially in the 'early days'. At one point I stopped with the speed tests and just enjoyed the speed. Occasionally I'd "check in" with a speed test and noticed a steady decline.

As of late the norm was around 12-15Mbps (max) download with the usual 7-8Mbps upload. Pings were kinda high at 90ms. YouTube still streamed liked a bastard though, so all good. All of this using the B593's internal antennas, mind you.

This weekend I upgraded my HomeOffice LTE to the 100GB package and decided to mount an outdoor antenna again. The XPOL-0006 was the natural choice. I'm happy with fallback to the internal antennas should I need 3G or Vodacom/MTN LTE.

I've already mentioned the "before" speeds. "Before" RSRP was -76 dBm with RSRQ at -7dB.

"After" RSRP is -72dBm with the same RSRQ. Speeds however jumped back up to 40Mbps with pings as low as 19ms. Well worth it.

So you're looking at this and thinking "only" 4dBi gain where the spec sheet for the XPOL-0006 says 11dBi. This is due to the HDF195 signal cable which would typically see a loss of 0.8dBm/m (my own testing). That's 8dBm loss due to the cable alone! So 4dBm gain is about right...

 

[TheViking]

Hey,
I am on Telkom Mobile's uncapped futurehood plane that comes with the Huawei B593 and the Poynting A-XPOL-0006. Yesterday a Telkom technician came to install the antenna, but it slowed the speed down by more than ten times. The technician was very confused and eventually left saying that I might as well leave the antenna off.
Any ideas why the speed would have slowed down with the antenna? As far as I know the router was set to only use the external antenna when it was attached. The general speed I get is between 30 & 40mbps. With the antenna it was 2.5mbps.
Any suggestions will be appreciated.

 

[jcheek]

Hey,
I am on Telkom Mobile's uncapped futurehood plan that comes with the Huawei B593 and the Poynting A-XPOL-0006. Yesterday a Telkom technician came to install the antenna, but it slowed the speed down by more than ten times. The technician was very confused and eventually left saying that I might as well leave the antenna off.
Any ideas why the speed would have slowed down with the antenna? As far as I know the router was set to only use the external antenna when it was attached. The general speed I get is between 30 & 40mbps. With the antenna it was 2.5mbps.
Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Welcome 'Viking !

The first step would be to make absolutely sure that the antenna cables and connectors are all in good shape, ie no loose connections, damaged cables or bent centre pins. Assuming that is all okay, then ...

Unlike the B593's internal patch antennas, the XPOL-0006 is strongly directional. It will deliver substantial gain, but only if it is pointed in the right direction (ie at a base station), and the B593 is set to USE that base station, and that station is A-OK. Problems can arise in all three areas.

My guess would be that the problem is one of the following :

1. The XPOL-0006 was pointing in the wrong direction, ie not at a base station. This seems unlikely since the Telkom techie (of all people) should know where that is.
2. The XPOL-0006 was pointing at the "right" station, but the B593 wasn't tuned to that station. The B593 "remembers" which cell (station) it was last tuned to and attempts to attach there first. If the last-connected station isn't the one the XPOL-0006 is aligned to, connecting the antenna would actually make things worse. Unless you force a cell search, it can take quite a while (at least a few minutes) for the B593 to figure out that the current station isn't the best and to switch to a better one.
3. The XPOL-0006 is aligned to the "right" station, and the B593 is tuned to that station, but that station (for whatever reason) isn't performing as well as the one you were tuned to when operating on the internal antennas.

The scientific way to pick up the problem is not to look only at download speed (or signal bars on the front panel), but to look at the signal strength & quality parameters on the B593's user interface. If you see substantial improvement in the RSSI, RSRP and RSRQ figures, then the antenna is correctly aligned and doing its part.

Also hook into the The Huawei B593 LTE discussion thread - you'll find loads of help there.
Edit: I see you were already there, waaaay way back last year!

 

[TheViking]

Welcome 'Viking !

The first step would be to make absolutely sure that the antenna cables and connectors are all in good shape, ie no loose connections, damaged cables or bent centre pins. Assuming that is all okay, then ...

Unlike the B593's internal patch antennas, the XPOL-0006 is strongly directional. It will deliver substantial gain, but only if it is pointed in the right direction (ie at a base station), and the B593 is set to USE that base station, and that station is A-OK. Problems can arise in all three areas.

My guess would be that the problem is one of the following :

1. The XPOL-0006 was pointing in the wrong direction, ie not at a base station. This seems unlikely since the Telkom techie (of all people) should know where that is.
2. The XPOL-0006 was pointing at the "right" station, but the B593 wasn't tuned to that station. The B593 "remembers" which cell (station) it was last tuned to and attempts to attach there first. If the last-connected station isn't the one the XPOL-0006 is aligned to, connecting the antenna would actually make things worse. Unless you force a cell search, it can take quite a while (at least a few minutes) for the B593 to figure out that the current station isn't the best and to switch to a better one.
3. The XPOL-0006 is aligned to the "right" station, and the B593 is tuned to that station, but that station (for whatever reason) isn't performing as well as the one you were tuned to when operating on the internal antennas.

The scientific way to pick up the problem is not to look only at download speed (or signal bars on the front panel), but to look at the signal strength & quality parameters on the B593's user interface. If you see substantial improvement in the RSSI, RSRP and RSRQ figures, then the antenna is correctly aligned and doing its part.

Also hook into the The Huawei B593 LTE discussion thread - you'll find loads of help there.

Hey jcheek,

Thanks for your response. I guess I will try to find out where the nearest tower is and try to do some fiddling myself to see if I can get it sorted.