The Poynting antenna discussion thread

[Azimuth]

It's an absolute pleasure, bud. My thanks in turn to contributing members like jcheek, Teejaybee and AntennaMan for their posts and shared enthusiasm.

Any updates to your installation here?

Edit: I graciously bow to your last statement!

 

[Biggles190]

Thanks AntennaMan - This layman now understands!

It would be interesting to find out the exact reason yeah. I tested 800m from a tower. Do the inside vs outside test and let us know? (Test your router indoors and out)

All these experiences seem to be extremely tower specific. At the end of the day, the XPOL-0001 basically gave me an extra 1 bar signal - 3 bars indoors became 4 bars with the XPOL-0001; to be expected with a mere 2.5dBi gain.

All in good time...A bit busy with work to fiddle around, but leave starts next week - I will post all the results

 

[Marakker]

It's an absolute pleasure, bud. My thanks in turn to contributing members like jcheek, Teejaybee and AntennaMan for their posts and shared enthusiasm.

Any updates to your installation here?

Edit: I graciously bow to your last statement!

Hi, no change in my setup.

 

[Azimuth]

So recently I installed an XPOL-0001 here which comes with 5m cable as standard.

As we know, this is a 2.5dBi medium gain antenna. Note that the gain measured is before cable is added and bundled with the product for sale.

Insertion loss of HDF195 at 2.5GHz is about 0.6 dBm. This means that the bundled 5m cable reduces the gain to 0 dBi. (2.5 dBi less 5*0.6 effectively equals 0dBi)

There is a longer story behind why this isn't that big a deal even while it may seem so on the surface.

Which brings me to my point: if an installation allows for it, have the antenna cable reduced. Poynting charge R55+VAT to customise cable and R32+VAT for new SMA connectors.

I much prefer to customise an antenna install and have better performance than cater for possible re-use in the future (may never happen and then the additional gain is lost).

 

[sajunky]

Insertion loss of HDF195 at 2.5GHz is about 0.6 dBm. This means that the bundled 5m cable reduces the gain to 0 dBi. (2.5 dBi less 5*0.6 effectively equals 0dBi)

Moving reception point to the place of lower distortions and stronger signal gives you much more. Unless your signal is very weak, 2-3dB doesn't count much. If it really does, invest in thicker low-loss LRM (not HDF) cable, keep extra few meters and have an option to reposition antenna in future.

 

[AntennaMan]

Moving reception point to the place of lower distortions and stronger signal gives you much more. Unless your signal is very weak, 2-3dB doesn't count much. If it really does, invest in thicker low-loss LRM (not HDF) cable, keep extra few meters and have an option to reposition antenna in future.

It is LMR, not LRM. And 3dB might not sound significant, but a loss of 3dB means you are losing half the power received. But I agree with you that it is advisable to use high quality, low loss cable. The connectors should also be attached to the cable according to the manufacturers specifications to minimize insertion loss into the cable. For this reason I always prefer German connectors over Chinese ones. Huber-Suhner, Telegartner and Radiall are my preferred brands, with S-Conn from Taiwan making decent connectors as well. Huber-Suhner and Telegartner also make quality low-loss cables.

 

[Azimuth]

Hmm, I'll ask Poynting what they're using out of interest. Interesting info, AntennaMan, thanks!

 

[sajunky]

It is LMR, not LRM. And 3dB might not sound significant, but a loss of 3dB means you are losing half the power received.

Ja, LRM, ja, ja. Power received is critical in special cases when signal is very low. This is what I wrote, didn't I? However I don't agree that 3dB is important in most cases presented in this thread as you seem to suggest. If you have different opinion, please explain.

 

[pirracas77]

Hi:
I'm writing from Spain. This is the best thread of 4g/3g antennas in the web.
I have been reading you for a while, and seeing the reasonable results with XPOL-A0001 so I decided to acquire one.
I have to comment that I don't have yet 4g coverage in my area (expected early 2015) and in the meantime I'm using that 3G coverage with very good speed results with only one bar of signal!!!

The problem is when I connect the antenna, no additional bars are showed and the speed is more or less the same. What am I doing wrong? The connectors should be plugged in a special order?
Thanks in advance.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Azimuth]

Welcome! And thanks for the compliment from all the contributors who made this thread.

The XPOL-0001 only yields 2.5dBi gain. You need to be between one signal band and the next to bump up the signal bar. That said, how long is your coax cable? It needs to be as short as possible, say 1.5m-2m OR located quite high up to benefit from elevation and the associated signal increase.

 

[pirracas77]

Welcome! And thanks for the compliment from all the contributors who made this thread.

The XPOL-0001 only yields 2.5dBi gain. You need to be between one signal band and the next to bump up the signal bar. That said, how long is your coax cable? It needs to be as short as possible, say 1.5m-2m OR located quite high up to benefit from elevation and the associated signal increase.

Thanks Azimuth for your quick response.

The cable is 5mts. It comes as it from the web store.

I tried several position in my roof, but nothing got to increase the signal.

I'm afraid I will return the antenna and I will look for a high gain antenna.
Any recommendation?

I have used "signal finder" for Android and it seems my tower is at 5km. Sadly I don't have line of view to the Tower.

 

[dullusb]

hi all need some help. I have a b593 hooked up to two LPDA-0092 antennas which was working flawlessly for about 6 to 8 months during storms I used to lose all signal and after an hour or so after the storm everything used to come back to normal. recently when I set my modem to external antenna the signal comes up for a few minutes and then loses all signal. If I use the the little white antennas that came with the modem it does not lose signal. If I plug the LPDA antennnas to my B683 modem it works perfectly no signal loss boosts my signal from 1 bar to full signal. So I am quite confused could it be a problem with the B593 modem or the antennas

 

[jcheek]

hi all need some help.

Hi dullusb

Interesting/challenging one.
It almost sounds to me like something in one of your antenna circuits (the whole circuit, from antenna, via any joints/connectors, to the SMA connector at the back of the modem) might be faulty. A faulty B593 (perhaps just the antenna port) might also be a possibility.

I have a b593 hooked up to two LPDA-0092 antennas which was working flawlessly for about 6 to 8 months during storms I used to lose all signal and after an hour or so after the storm everything used to come back to normal.

The fact that it worked "flawlessly" for so long suggests that your installation was OK originally, although the loss of signal in bad weather is interesting, I haven't heard of anyone else having that issue. Anyone else care to comment if they've had similar experience ?
That might suggest that one of the joints (perhaps inside a connector) in an antenna circuit has gone bad - this could happen with corrosion over time if (for instance) it was a bad crimp and/or the connection got excessively wet or otherwise degraded. Also look for physical damage (kinks, nicks, flattened sections) on the antenna cables.
If you have access to a multimeter (an electrical tester), measure the resistance between the outer ring and centre pin on the SMA connector side of your antenna cables - check for the DC short, an open circuit, or perhaps an odd value inbetween.
Unfortunately this is only a quick check. A good result doesn't necessarily mean that the cable is OK at RF frequencies if it's been damaged, but it would help you identify a major cable fault.

I assume (since you are using LPDA's) that you have a line-of-sight installation. How far to your base station ?
Can you give some idea of what your original performance was, ie RSSI/RSRP/RSRQ/speeds ?
This will give some idea of the original LPDA92 performance.

Recently when I set my modem to external antenna the signal comes up for a few minutes and then loses all signal.

Definitely seems like something's gone off over time then.
See comment about weathering up above.
Also see comment about setting explicitly to use "External" antennas down below.

If I use the the little white antennas that came with the modem it does not lose signal.

This seems to suggest the modem itself is OK. Are you set to "external" or "Auto" when you do this, and what sort of performance (RSSI/RSRP/RSRP/speeds) do you see when you do this ?
Have you tried using the built-in internal patch antennas for comparison ?

If I plug the LPDA antennas to my B683 modem it works perfectly no signal loss boosts my signal from 1 bar to full signal.

Since the B683 only has one antenna port, I guess you are only using one of the two LPDA0092 antenna circuits here - perhaps the vertically-polarised one ? Have you tried using the other antenna circuit for comparison ?
Even though the performance won't be directly comparable because of the polarisation difference, you should be able to see if both circuits look OK or if one looks totally off.

So I am quite confused could it be a problem with the B593 modem or the antennas

As alluded to with the steps above, I would suggest concentrating on :
(a) verifying that your B593 is fully OK (which sub-model do you have - an 's-601 ?); then
(b) establishing baseline performance, either with the built-in internal antennas, and/or the indoor external antennas (the flat whips); then
(b) checking that both external antenna circuits are OK (B683 testing and physical/electrical tests).

Some other things to check:
1) Set the antennas explicitly to either "Built-in" or "External" for testing, and check that the B593 actually does honour the chosen setting. Antenna Auto-detect may not always be reliable. This could also help with diagnosis : if set to "Auto", the B593 seems to make the "best" choice (Built-in or External) based on measured signal performance. If it selects "Built-in" when you have an external connected, it might suggest a problem on that port's antenna circuit.

2) Even though screwing in those SMA connectors on external antenna cables (or flat whips) is a royal pain in the ass, do make sure they go all the way home to prevent bad connections.

3) If all else fails, try to get hold of another B593 to check if you see the same symptom.

Good luck!

 

[dullusb]

Thanks for the reply I have a feeling it might be the modem as now switching to the internal antennas to get the rssi etc it is stuck on no signal I will try a few test and report back

 

[sajunky]

recently when I set my modem to external antenna the signal comes up for a few minutes and then loses all signal.

Did you try to swap antenna plugs? If it doesn't change anything, it means that input circuit of the main reveiver is blown but diversity channel is still alive.
Try to figure out which one by switching one of the input to internal antenna. And then reverse setting. One compbination should work. In such way you can still work with main receiver connected to the internal antenna and diversity receiver to the external one.

 

[dullusb]

Did you try to swap antenna plugs? If it doesn't change anything, it means that input circuit of the main reveiver is blown but diversity channel is still alive.
Try to figure out which one by switching one of the input to internal antenna. And then reverse setting. One compbination should work. In such way you can still work with main receiver connected to the internal antenna and diversity receiver to the external one.

You lost me a bit there I'm a proper noob when it comes to modems and antennas. I will hopefully get another b593 later today to test that will give me a good idea on where the problem lies antenna or b593

 

[Doom5003]

Hi guys, I need some help and home this is the right place to ask for it.
I installed and external antenna to my B683 but don't know a thing about signal strength and or quality. See my screenshot and please tell me if it looks good and if it can be better. Please note I have no idea as to where my nearest MTN tower is.

 

[Azimuth]

Hi Doom5003. The correct thread for your question is over here:

Antenna installation and alignment

 

[Doom5003]

Hi Doom5003. The correct thread for your question is over here:

Antenna installation and alignment

Thanks.

 

[sajunky]

See my screenshot and please tell me if it looks good and if it can be better. Please note I have no idea as to where my nearest MTN tower is.

Your signal is good considering very low interference level (ECIO).

You can still get better results by pointing to the right tower. Note Cell ID and get maximum signal for the same Cell ID. Meassure speed and stability of connection. Then repeat above for another Cell ID. Do above tests about the same time during peak hours (7-10pm) to establish which tower is less congested, as this factor might determine your experience.