The Proteas - Our Team!

[sand_man]

http://www.bdlive.co.za/sport/cricket/2014/10/15/tsotsobe-not-ready-to-play-for-proteas

ONE swallow does not a summer make and one good performance does not mean Lonwabo Tsotsobe is ready to play for SA again, says Proteas legend Makhaya Ntini.

His 5/44 for the Highveld Lions against the Chevrolet Warriors in the One Day Cup, however, was just the tonic to put himself in the national selectors’ line of sight once more, said Ntini.

"Boom!" Tsotsobe screamed in delight after getting his fifth victim on Sunday, Sisanda Magala, sensing the start of his revival.

"This is a good start for him to establish himself once again," Ntini said. "He’s gotten a wake-up call. He hasn’t been performing the way we thought he should be performing, even before his struggles with injuries and stuff.

"He lacked form and there have been doubts about his fitness.

"He’s got the talent and the ability to go back to No1 on the one-day international bowlers rankings.

"They chose Mthokozisi Shezi ahead of him for the Proteas tour to Zimbabwe (triangular series) and they’ve also called up Kagiso Rabada (for the Twenty20 squad to New Zealand and Australia). In the past he was the one filling that extra bowling position.

"He did well by performing against the Warriors but we mustn’t quickly turn around and say he is now ready to play for SA. We must understand that when it comes to national team selection it can’t be earned by performing in one game," Ntini said.

In a match where Neil McKenzie and Quinton de Kock made the Warriors fielders sweat, Tsotsobe bowled with the ease of an eagle taking to the sky. He was, however, still quite some way from the form that took him to the top of the ICC bowling rankings in 2012.

There were times when he gave the batsmen a few deliveries to whack by bowling too full or offering too much width for a bowler of his limited speed.

They were the kind of deliveries that he was most criticised for the last time he played for SA — against India at home last December.

"It is now going to be difficult for him to force his way back considering there’s a young Rabada also in the mix," warned Ntini.

"Tsotsobe is under huge pressure. If Rabada performs very well in Australia and New Zealand then he will heap more pressure on him. Rabada’s youth means that he will be more willing to obey the captain’s instructions.

"With the World Cup not far from now, Tsotsobe needs to keep picking up wickets for him to be in line for selection again.

"He has experience on his side. He has to make sure that he utilises that experience to get himself noticed over the allure of youth."

Lance Klusener, who was his coach during his tumultuous time at the Dolphins, said there was no one better who was not with the Proteas in New Zealand at the moment.

But the 1999 World Cup player of the tournament said that Tsotsobe had just about enough time and talent to unlock the back door.

"I saw some of his bowling and it looked pretty sharp — that’s good," Klusener said.

"He’s proved that he’s an absolute handful at his best.

"But we want Tsotsobe only at his best and I don’t think there’s space anymore to have people only at 70%," he said.

 

[ZCFOutkast]

I've also seen him take a clattering and he sometimes doesn't seem to know what to do about that (if you look at his bowling history, you'll see a lot of spells of less than 10 overs).

The choice of abbot above tsotsobe is about role. Abbot was chosen as a death bowler. Lopsy can not bowl at death we have seen this time and time again. To balance the bowling attack they needed a specialist death bowler and abbot is that guy.

The strange this about this is Abbott hasn't completed his quota in many matches. I've looked at the early careers of most of our semaers and they all completed thei quotas. He had acouple of good overs a the death against Auustralia, but that's about it. None of it is proof he can bowl at the death.

Everyone used to say McLaren is the best seamer at the death. I invite you to got through the MyBB. Granted so did some coaches&commentators. But look how he's been torn apart repeatedly at the death over the last year or so. How then can you have faith that someone as unproven&highly unsuccessful as Abbott will be certain success bowlign at the death when he could'nt even keep Zimbabwe quiet but for the pressure created by others taking wickets?

With Rory, Marchant, Morris or even Shezi&Rabada does Abbott even deserve to be discussed as among the best national material in ODIs we have no matter how good his "attitude" is?

We all know this is a disaster waiting to happen. Last few Tests Philander has been underwhelming. Morkel needs one type of pitch to thrive and he won't be given it. Alogn with Steyn they've also fetched heavily and looked really clueless. Does one really want Parnell&Abbott as the next best when we're struggling to get wicekts? People are underestimating just how many times Tsotsobe's wicekts with the new ball set us on course to win.

I won't blow a gasket Neoprod but I did literally bet on an all-out attack of Steyn, Morkel, Tsotsobe&Philander being too hot to handle hence a first ever world cup win for the Proteas(with JP handling a couple of overs of spin if required). I didn't think any other side could match it. If Steyn has a cramp then you have Philander, Morkel&Abbott/Parnell? Bowlers who lack pedigree don't win you World Cups, and as someone said Tsotsobe wasn't #1 in the world for nothing. Money down the drain!

 

[Rusty0]

Too early to get this going? I thought with the squad being announced today (17:30 on Supersport), it was as good as time as any to get it started. Unlike my opinion on the Boks' prospects at the RWC later this year, I believe that this is one of our better opportunities at finally bagging the top piece of ICC silverware.

Pools as follows:

Pool A

England
Australia
Sri Lanka
Bangladesh
New Zealand
Afghanistan
Scotland

Pool B (Pool of Death!)

South Africa
India
Pakistan
West Indies
Zimbabwe
Ireland
United Arab Emirates

Fixtures here

Same groups for every WC?
Why dont they draw teams like FIFA does?

 

[ZCFOutkast]

http://www.bdlive.co.za/sport/cricket/2014/10/15/tsotsobe-not-ready-to-play-for-proteas

Makhaya was just being diplomatic. I'm in communication with Tsotsobe, Makhaya and a couple of journos&coaches. Do you honestly think anyone in their right mind would rank Tsotsobe behind - Abbott, Shezi, Parnell, Marchant&Rabada? Klusener included? I'm a Lions fan and I'd also throw Morris(plus Rory&McLaren) in ahead of that lot too. Those youngsters have done nothing to prove that they are better, and those seniors have been dropped for performing better than those youngsters are right now.

No one in the West Indies cricket setup, apart from maybe Chanderpaul plays at more than 70% in my opinion, but I bet you they can absolutely thump the Proteas if they meet on the right day during the WC. Tsotsobe purportedly at his worst still outbowled most despite playing two matches less than Morkel. That's what counts at the end of the day. He was pretty much responsible for the sole win on the tour (sorry Miller but you don't bowl SL out for 167 at home and batting is responsible for the win).

 

[sand_man]

Makhaya was just being diplomatic. I'm in communication with Tsotsobe, Makhaya and a couple of journos&coaches. Do you honestly think anyone in their right mind would rank Tsotsobe behind - Abbott, Shezi, Parnell, Marchant&Rabada? Klusener included? I'm a Lions fan and I'd also throw Morris(plus Rory&McLaren) in ahead of that lot too. Those youngsters have done nothing to prove that they are better, and those seniors have been dropped for performing better than those youngsters are right now.

I think Tsotsobe's form is only half the story. There seem to be discipline related issues keeping him out of contention.

 

[Rusty0]

SA Squad:

AB de Villiers - Class
Hashim Amla - Class
Kyle Abbott - Wont play all the games, cant handle WC pressure
Farhaan Behardien - Hit and miss
Quinton de Kock - Still new, could be a trump card
JP Duminy - Very good history in Aus - Class but slightly injured.
Faf du Plessis - Hit and miss, cant handle pressure
Imran Tahir - Needed to play every game in the past 6 months, didnt.
David Miller - Over rated, cant handle pressure
Morne Morkel - Will get smacked all over the place in Aus
Wayne Parnell - Eish.
Aaron Phangiso - Who/y?
Vernon Philander - Doesnt play a lot of ODI, takes him to ODI WC ffs.
Rilee Rossouw - Hopeless
Dale Steyn - Class

Not a winning squad. If Amla, AB and Steyn dont fire every game. We lose.

 

[Neoprod]

My team for the tournament if everyone is fit:

1.Hash
2.QDK
3.Faf
4.AB
5.Rillee
6.Miller
7.JP
8.Big Vern
9.Steyn
10.Morkel
11.Tahir

This is a happy days kind of team...you've got 5 bowling options only (I don't count Roussouw whose only bowled 60 deliveries ever in first class and List A cricket combined) . What happens when someone gets on top of 1 or 2 of these guys? Rossouw is only there for cover for QDK, imo.

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Same groups for every WC?
Why dont they draw teams like FIFA does?

Cricekt deepends on teams like England, Australia&India reaching the latter stages. You can't have all three in one group and risk two being lost. In football England&Brazil can both go out 1st and FIFA still rake in billions.

NB: I think group a is the pool of death. BD, AFG, NZ&SL can easily qualify ahead of one of AUS&ENG.

Ireland's players are long in the tooth now in my opinion. Zimbabwe lack the ability to post formidable scores (Their best bastman Brendan Taylor is pretty much their worst away from home, which tells a story). In Chatara&Panyangara they have one half of a possible world class attack but half won;t get you anywhere. UAE can shock one of those two but not the rest. So in essence no shocks expected in that group.

On the other hand, in NZ&AUS conditions AFG have the seamers to bowl out(& hurt batsmen) any side for sub 230. Bangladesh have enough spinners to strangle any side's scoring rate plus a decent seamer in Mashrafe. Considering their batsmen either get bowled out for 60 or score 260, every team in their group should be concerned about them. I'll put my head ont he block and say NZ will win that group. One of ENG&SL is in danger.

 

[ZCFOutkast]

I think Tsotsobe's form is only half the story. There seem to be discipline related issues keeping him out of contention.

The funny thing is this is the 2nd time someone has said something along those lines. Same applies to Tsolekile. He was promised the world (deserved it no matter what anyone wants to believe). In the end he got nothign now he's out of a contract.

CSA have selected A sides (List A & FC), and Tsotsobe is not in any of them (Rabada&Shezi ahead of him). Possibly due to being a reserve bowler for the WC but that's besides the point.

Anyway it comes back to what I said about Thami only on a mcuh bibber scale. Since Ntini the only black cricketer who has been world class - more than just being proteas squad material but world class - is Lonwabo Tsotsobe. Now tell me, what message is it sending as far as transformatin targets are concerned if the best of the lot cannot even make the squad for a showpiece as big as the CWC. Fair enough Phangiso will be there - and he's never put a foot wrong, but they'll either gowith Tahir or all pace attack rendering him a spectator more often than not.

Do you honestly think Zondo&Bavuma (bats) or Shezi&Rabada(seamers) or Phangio&Leie(spinners) or Tsolekile&Mosehle(keepers) will ever be as good for the national side as Tsotsobe?

Basically it means Bavuma will either be forced into the Test side or Rabada/Phangiso into the LOIs yet in Tsotsobe we have a genuine world class wicket-taker across formats who can go into any side on merit (especially with Philander&Morkel harldy consistent/dominant).

I don't know but CSA is backing themselves into an uncomfortable corner. From what I've seen few/none of you guys like Bavuma and with Abbott failing for the Test side, Philander tailing back they can't pick anyone ahead of Rabada without raising an outcry. No way he;ll be as effective as Tsotsobe. Meanwhile Tsotsobe will still be scratching his backside.

Is the cost of those other unknown issues worth it? Get your thinking caps on and try and extrapolate what you find beyond 12 months.

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Quinton de Kock - Still new, could be a trump card

If he was your son/grand child you would be fuming at him being usd as an opener. If not I would. I still beileve he should be batting 5 or 6. If he opens he'll be fortunate to score more than 10 runs more than once.

Rilee Rossouw - Hopeless

My assessment of him is different. The boy has got power&confidence. If QdK(or MvW) is good to go and he doesn't open, he may just be among the 4 top run scorers.

 

[Neoprod]

Is the cost of those other unknown issues worth it? Get your thinking caps on and try and extrapolate what you find beyond 12 months.

The fact that they're unknown means we can't know how worthy the reasons are for not picking him. Can I throw a spanner in the works and ask why Fikile Mbalula isn't chucking his toys out the cot about this? If Lopsy's omission is truly is as controversial as you say, our revered sports minister would be all over it, I feel.

Anyway onto the prognosticating...I've tried to put the squad into the order I think they will play on "normal" pitches (not overly friendly to seamers or spinners).

Hashim Amla
Quinton de Kock \ Riley Rossouw (Rossouw only going along as cover)
Faf du Plessis
AB de Villiers
David Miller
JP Duminy
Kyle Abbott \ Wayne Parnell \ Farhaan Behardien (possibly Abbott is the frontrunner cos' he can bowl at the end)
Vernon Philander
Dale Steyn
Morne Morkel
Imran Tahir \ Aaron Phangiso

That's the basic line-up if the frontline players are performing well. I think Vernon's spot isn't certain and Rossouw in for Miller (if QDK is fit) is definitely a possibility if Miller's form at the WC doesn't look good.

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Can I throw a spanner in the works and ask why Fikile Mbalula isn't chucking his toys out the cot about this? If Lopsy's omission is truly is as controversial as you say, our revered sports minister would be all over it, I feel.

As much as some of my brothers&sisters may want to argue otherwise, cricket(& rugby) are not exactly simple sports to grasp like soccer. Sadly our Razzmataz Minister falls into the camp that probably thinks Phangiso/Tsotsobe are same difference, while recent u19 star Rabada is an upgrade over Tsotsobe. Much maligned Ngconde Balfour & Makhenkesi Stofile would never say govt will withdraw national colours i.e. no international representation for certain reasons (that's what this muppet suggested not so long ago if you remember correctly), but they'd be consciously aware of the Tsotsobe decision as well as its implications enough to ask relevant questions. Anyway if Tsotsobe is not too afraid of loss of contract i.e. income expect some fireworks. No doubt Hudson will himself trying to explain.

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Hashim Amla
Quinton de Kock \ Riley Rossouw (Rossouw only going along as cover)
Faf du Plessis
AB de Villiers
David Miller
JP Duminy
Kyle Abbott \ Wayne Parnell \ Farhaan Behardien (possibly Abbott is the frontrunner cos' he can bowl at the end)
Vernon Philander
Dale Steyn
Morne Morkel
Imran Tahir \ Aaron Phangiso.

Your team is very depressing. Zim, Ire UAE would fancy their chances if they set a decent target.

 

[stefan9]

This is a happy days kind of team...you've got 5 bowling options only (I don't count Roussouw whose only bowled 60 deliveries ever in first class and List A cricket combined) . What happens when someone gets on top of 1 or 2 of these guys? Rossouw is only there for cover for QDK, imo.

How many bowlers did india and aus have in their sides for the last 3 world cups. Aus had 5 and India had 4.

 

[Neoprod]

Your team is very depressing. Zim, Ire UAE would fancy their chances if they set a decent target.

hehe, I just took the announced squad and arranged them...I didn't choose the names.

How many bowlers did india and aus have in their sides for the last 3 world cups. Aus had 5 and India had 4.

I remember David Hussey and Shane Watson bowling for Aus in the last WC (pretty sure Michael Clarke would also have bowled). For India, Suresh Raina and Yuvraj Singh would have done the same...those are top 6-7 batsmen being called on to bowl.

 

[Rusty0]

If he was your son/grand child you would be fuming at him being usd as an opener. If not I would. I still beileve he should be batting 5 or 6. If he opens he'll be fortunate to score more than 10 runs more than once.

My assessment of him is different. The boy has got power&confidence. If QdK(or MvW) is good to go and he doesn't open, he may just be among the 4 top run scorers.

Hes done well opening with Amla. Im happy about it, I just dont want to see him fail and get blamed. Hes inexperienced for the big WC.

How much confidence will be evident in the upcoming ODI with WI, i hoe WI play their WC squad, Gayle, Pollard, Narine... that will open up holes in the side.

Im just looking at idiots that will lose the cup. Is Rilee, Faf, Miller, Morkel match winners? I dont think so.
Chance of all 3, Rilee, Miller and Faf failing in one game is quite high.

 

[CyberDemon]

Is there any site to add the SA fixtures to Google Calendar with our time zone?

 

[MickeyD]

Is there any site to add the SA fixtures to Google Calendar with our time zone?

There's normally one closer to the time. If I find it I'll link it here.

 

[stefan9]

hehe, I just took the announced squad and arranged them...I didn't choose the names.


I remember David Hussey and Shane Watson bowling for Aus in the last WC (pretty sure Michael Clarke would also have bowled). For India, Suresh Raina and Yuvraj Singh would have done the same...those are top 6-7 batsmen being called on to bowl.

Watson and Yuvraj were the 5th bowler for those teams they weren't added extras. Both ab and rillee could turn their arms over if really needed. In odi's you need the batting depth.

 

[Agent_Smith]

Is there any site to add the SA fixtures to Google Calendar with our time zone?

There's normally one closer to the time. If I find it I'll link it here.

Guys check here. This might be what you're after. Add to Calendar option on the right.