The road to serfdom

[kilo39]

Everything is relative, the world isn't as black and white and polarised as some people, including you, would have it be. I think a lot of the Bush administration's policies especially concerning civil liberties are wrong and go too far, but its too simplistic to then label everyone as fascist and assume they're equal, there are many government's far worse than the US's, including Iran's.

No, a western government should never be aligned with fascism in any form or manner. The fact that you are now 'excusing' america makes you a facist along with them. Fascist policy = Fascist.

No other way of putting it (and fact: the bush attack on civil liberties, the lies, are fascist. End of story.)

 

[Syndyre]

No, a western government should never be aligned with fascism in any form or manner. The fact that you are now 'excusing' america makes you a facist along with them. Fascist policy = Fascist.

No other way of putting it (and fact: the bush attack on civil liberties, the lies, are fascist. End of story.)

The attacks on civil liberties are fascist I agree, but that's just one part of the system and country. You can't focus on that one part and then label the whole country based on that. If I don't support the fascist policies then how exactly am I a fascist?

 

[kilo39]

The attacks on civil liberties are fascist I agree, but that's just one part of the system and country. You can't focus on that one part and then label the whole country based on that. If I don't support the fascist policies then how exactly am I a fascist?

In your previous post you are telling me everything is 'relative,' and the world isn't black and white. You cannot defend one part while excluding another. They are one and the same, ie, policy coming out of the bush government. The fact that you are now 'defending' america and america today is the outcome of bush policy means any defence of those policies is fascist. (And yes, you are defending policy, ie, it's all relative.) No it's not all relative. There is one given set of right and wrong, one given set of moral code. Break any of those and you are fascist. Simple really. Your defence of america re, your 'relative' statement means you defend bush policy on some level and are therefore fascist. (And let's remember this all started with the Jerusalem Post, vested interests if ever there were, and here we are.)

 

[Syndyre]

In your previous post you are telling me everything is 'relative,' and the world isn't black and white. You cannot defend one part while excluding another. They are one and the same, ie, policy coming out of the bush government. The fact that you are now 'defending' america and america today is the outcome of bush policy means any defence of those policies is fascist. (And yes, you are defending policy, ie, it's all relative.) No it's not all relative. There is one given set of right and wrong, one given set of moral code. Break any of those and you are fascist. Simple really. Your defence of america re, your 'relative' statement means you defend bush policy on some level and are therefore fascist. (And let's remember this all started with the Jerusalem Post, vested interests if ever there were, and here we are.)

America is not the sum total of Bush's policies, there's more to it than that. Its perfectly reasonable to support some of a country or administration's proposals and oppose others, to condemn something just because it comes from a certain country regardless of its nature is bigoted. By saying its all relative doesn't mean I support it, I just mean on a comparative basis there are countries that are worse, e.g. saying the SA government is better than the Zim government doesn't mean I support the SA government.

 

[Nod]

Simply put, America will do anything to protect it way of living. If they run short of oil, they'll go get it from somebody that have, by any means necessary, as they proofed. America is not free and fair as their propaganda insists. Personally I'll never go and live in America. It's to full of smoke and mirrors. The people on the ground might be genuine, but the government is self serving, arrogant and completely oblivious to the effect of their policies on other countries.

What would the middle east be today, if America stayed out of their business from the start? We'll never know, because America will always meddle in other countries business, the moment they can get something out of it. If Zimbabwe had oil, America would have oust Mugabe years ago in the name of freedom and democracy. Implementing some food for oil program, would have been second on the agenda, and then they'll rebuild the country by employing companies from America.

America does nothing out of the good of its hart. It simply doesn't have a heart.

 

[Alan]

The attacks on civil liberties are fascist I agree, but that's just one part of the system and country. You can't focus on that one part and then label the whole country based on that. If I don't support the fascist policies then how exactly am I a fascist?

So the commies were fascist as well

Simply put, America will do anything to protect it way of living. If they run short of oil, they'll go get it from somebody that have, by any means necessary, as they proofed. America is not free and fair as their propaganda insists. Personally I'll never go and live in America. It's to full of smoke and mirrors. The people on the ground might be genuine, but the government is self serving, arrogant and completely oblivious to the effect of their policies on other countries.

Funny that the American people are "genuine" yet vote these evil people into power .

What would the middle east be today, if America stayed out of their business from the start? We'll never know, because America will always meddle in other countries business, the moment they can get something out of it. If Zimbabwe had oil, America would have oust Mugabe years ago in the name of freedom and democracy. Implementing some food for oil program, would have been second on the agenda, and then they'll rebuild the country by employing companies from America.

So why haven't they invaded Saudi Arabia or Kuwait or Venezuela

Oh and when did America run out of rice?

 

[Syndyre]

There's actually very little difference between communism and fascism in practice, fascism even calls for state control of the economy to an extent.

 

[Nod]

Funny that the American people are "genuine" yet vote these evil people into power .

Maybe their choices for whom to vote for is not so great. Its common knowledge, that in order to even stand for president, you need quite a bit of money, which means that the best person does not always get to be nominated.

So why haven't they invaded Saudi Arabia or Kuwait or Venezuela

Maybe they haven't been in some of those countries, because they are giving them what they want?

Oh and when did America run out of rice?

How did you get to rice? If you imply Vietnam, job creation seems to be a good enough reason as any. America was in an economic decline prior to the war.
Some info:

The US prevented the elections that were promised under the Geneva conference because it knew that the Communists would win. Vietnamese Buddhist monks protested against American involvement by self-immolation.

 

[Alan]

There's actually very little difference between communism and fascism in practice, fascism even calls for state control of the economy to an extent.

Hence the "National Socialist German Workers' party of Germany" ie Nazi

Where's the oppression when LG posts his anti U.S propaganda from the U.S when he is not even originally from America. Where's the oppression when the MSM lies about the president's past to negatively affect his re-election campaign. Where's the oppression when Mr Moore made his documentary of drivel .

Where's the oppression when they have protests like the one in Oregon where "peace protesters" burnt a U.S. soldier in effigy and then defecated on a burning U.S. flag.

Police state my @ss

 

[Alan]

Maybe their choices for whom to vote for is not so great. Its common knowledge, that in order to even stand for president, you need quite a bit of money, which means that the best person does not always get to be nominated.

What so they elect the very worst.

Maybe they haven't been in some of those countries, because they are giving them what they want?

Yeah like not attacking their neighbours, attacking their own citizens with chemicals and trying to obtain nukes. They sell oil to U.S just like they do to every other country.

How did you get to rice? If you imply Vietnam, job creation seems to be a good enough reason as any. America was in an economic decline prior to the war.

Oh yes. The good old "war gets the economy going" theme.

So they hoped to have them killed off so there could be less competition for jobs

 

[Alan]

Hey Syndyre wanna wager what the reaction will be to this

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/web...toon_on_Koranic_Wife_Beating_Controversy&only




Awaits Kilo's outrage

 

[Xarog]

I don't agree with every detail but I do think she has a compelling point, just look at situations like the Danish cartoons etc, the West is too scared to stand up to people lest they damage their fragile egos.

And look how the west reacted when Iran announced it was going to publish holocaust cartoons/have a holocaust conference in response.

Why should one side be allowed its sacred cows and not the other?

 

[kilo39]

America is not the sum total of Bush's policies, there's more to it than that. Its perfectly reasonable to support some of a country or administration's proposals and oppose others, to condemn something just because it comes from a certain country regardless of its nature is bigoted. By saying its all relative doesn't mean I support it, I just mean on a comparative basis there are countries that are worse, e.g. saying the SA government is better than the Zim government doesn't mean I support the SA government.

America may not be the sum of but americas foreign policy is. Doubly the assault on personal liberties, triple the assault on the american constitution.

Was not the opening post:

"The persecution of these students provides a case study of the two-pronged offensive being carried out today against Western culture. First there are the jihadists, who call for our destruction. Then there are the leftist intellectuals and public figures who defend radical Islamists and work to silence those who criticize them by criminalizing speech and condemning free thinkers as racists.

The direct consequence of this two-pronged offensive is the repression of free thought.

Now who exactly is 'criminalising speech and condemning free thinkers as racists.' Who is introducing the policy and practices I posted above? Who is now trying to 'defend' those policies and practices by the opening post, ie we are against free speech, and they are the free thinkers (while waging unjust wars and introducing policies that attack the bedrock of americas freedom.) PLEAZE. Shine a light on your bigotry 'cause it obviously ain't plain to see.

 

[kilo39]

So why haven't they invaded Saudi Arabia or Kuwait or Venezuela

Americas policies of installing dictators in South America is long and clear. Pity about Hugo, my how times have changed: seems countries no longer believe america's lies?

There's that 600 000 number again. Where's the proof please. Yeah it's always us isn't it. How reasuring to think that the extremists are always reactionary and if we just change our ways they'll leave us alone . That's so much easier is it not

Estimates range from approximately 60,000 civilian deaths (Iraq Body Count project) to 655,000 total excess deaths due to the war (second Lancet survey of mortality).
[source]

You the one who feels the need to endlessly post "facts" in an attempt to force it down peoples throats to convince them of your views. I don't feel like getting into postfests with you every time.

Facts are facts, and the House Senate Committee, that very long list is good enough for me. Yes, endlessly because you constantly waffle the same nonsense. Um why, 'cause you lose?

Who said they were perfect . How odd

First mention:

Nobody's saying the US is perfect, but in relative terms its much better than Iran etc. There's more to the West than the US anyway.

Gee, perhaps it's true, you really can't read?

Where's the oppression when LG posts his anti U.S propaganda from the U.S when he is not even originally from America. Where's the oppression when the MSM lies about the president's past to negatively affect his re-election campaign. Where's the oppression when Mr Moore made his documentary of drivel .

Lies about the presidents past? Where? Documentary of drivel? How would you know, you are the one that sanctions lies here daily.

Where's the oppression when they have protests like the one in Oregon where "peace protesters" burnt a U.S. soldier in effigy and then defecated on a burning U.S. flag.

The biggest defecation is your one, here. Which would you prefer, shootings in the streets?

/shakes head/

 

[Syndyre]

Hey Syndyre wanna wager what the reaction will be to this

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/web...toon_on_Koranic_Wife_Beating_Controversy&only




Awaits Kilo's outrage

lol that's classic.

 

[Syndyre]

And look how the west reacted when Iran announced it was going to publish holocaust cartoons/have a holocaust conference in response.

Why should one side be allowed its sacred cows and not the other?

I think there's a major difference between a cartoon and what's billed as a serious academic conference that's effectively denying the historical fact of the death of millions of people. Interestingly though I don't remember any major riots in New York or London about the holocaust conference.

 

[kilo39]

I think there's a major difference between a cartoon and what's billed as a serious academic conference that's effectively denying the historical fact of the death of millions of people. Interestingly though I don't remember any major riots in New York or London about the holocaust conference.

No, nobody was denying anything, it was a conference exploring the political mileage of the holocaust (a bit like apartheid mileage here.)

But a small group of Jewish rabbis are also there. One, British Rabbi Ahron Cohen, said he had come to the conference to put the "Orthodox Jewish viewpoint" across.

"We certainly say there was a Holocaust, we lived through the Holocaust. But in no way can it be used as a justification for perpetrating unjust acts against the Palestinians," he said.
Iran defends Holocaust conference

Gee, why am I defending this creep? Because I see equal creepiness in the "opposing forces." I see lies, misinformation and propaganda. Lots of dead people. Suicide bombers. Threats of war. And I need to ask myself: WTF is going on here?

Instead of blithely supporting their lies, and propagating them with more.

You missed the riot in the newspapers then? I would have thought people have better things to do? Why then aren't the [-]Palestinians[/-] [-]Iranians[/-] Jihadists Islamists doing them?

 

[Syndyre]

Why aren't the Islamists doing what? Riotous editorials are very different to people running amok in the streets.

 

[kilo39]

Why aren't the Islamists doing what? Riotous editorials are very different to people running amok in the streets.

Um jobs, school, reading the newspaper, living their lives. Oh of course, people just riot for no reason. Run around blowing themselves up for no reason. Take time out to have a world wide riot. Gee they seem to have a collective gripe? I wonder what it is?

 

[Syndyre]

They certainly do have a collective gripe but that doesn't automatically make it rational, reasonable or justified.