The Syrian Conflict Thread

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If you haven't bothered to read the resolution to back your my friends said i could do it so i did, i really can't argue about it or debate it. You are right if your friends say do it then do it. Logic --> window.

Ok so back to syria now...

Rt claims to be fighting jihadists in christian town, Guess they didn't want to pull out as staggy and myself questioned.

Go syria, kill those twisted jihadists!!!

Awww shame...can't show where it says "my friends said i could do it so i did"? As usual, waffle and obfuscation...then ducking out.

Don't forget your pom poms when you perform your "Go syria, kill those twisted jihadists!!!" :p
 

killadoob

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Awww shame...can't show where it says "my friends said i could do it so i did"? As usual, waffle and obfuscation...then ducking out.

Don't forget your pom poms when you perform your "Go syria, kill those twisted jihadists!!!" :p

How could i forget the most important part dude, common now. Pom poms are the very first thing you get.
 

snoopdoggydog

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U.S. can’t prove Bashar Assad approved chemical attacks in Syria

U.S. intelligence has yet to uncover evidence that Syrian President Bashar Assad directly ordered the chemical attacks last month on civilians in a suburb of Damascus, though the consensus inside U.S. agencies and Congress is that members of Mr. Assad’s inner circle likely gave the command, officials tell The Washington Times.

The gap in the intelligence has raised debate in some corners of the wider intelligence community about whether Mr. Assad has full control of his war-weary Army and their arsenal of chemical missiles, which most likely would be treasured by terrorist groups known to be operating in Syria, said officials, who spoke only on the condition of anonymity because they were discussing intelligence matters.

“If there was a rogue general that did it on his own accord, that would be a bigger problem for Assad, because that would imply that he does not have control of his own weapons,” said one senior congressional source familiar with U.S. intelligence assessments on Syria.

Apart from concerns about weapons falling into the hands of such Sunni extremist and al Qaeda-linked groups as the al-Nusra Front, there are also concerns about serious hurdles now likely to lie ahead for the international community trying to assemble a special team to work with Mr. Assad on securing his chemical arsenal.

Some foreign policy insiders, meanwhile, said the lack of specific intelligence about who ordered the Aug. 21 chemical weapons attack is the main reason why top Obama administration officials — including the president himself — have in recent days carefully assigned blame to “Assad’s regime” rather than the Syrian leader personally.

Officials stressed there is a high degree of confidence that Mr. Assad had previously delegated authority over the use of chemical weapons to senior military commanders within his regime, even if he didn’t directly order the latest attack or know about it in advance.

The “responsibility for the Syrian regime’s use of chemical weapons on Aug. 21 rests on his shoulders whether he ordered the attack or not,” one U.S. official said, summarizing the assessment of intelligence agencies. “Nobody doubts that Syrian military leaders report to Assad.”

Outside the Obama administration, some analysts with senior-level Middle East and intelligence experience say doubts about control of Mr. Assad’s chemical arsenal do exist and are very real.

“As far as I know, there’s no intelligence that links [Mr. Assad] directly to the operation, so that does raise the question of command and control,” said Bruce Riedel, a former CIA officer who heads the Intelligence Project at the Brookings Institution in Washington.

In an interview, Mr. Riedel said the question now looms large, particularly since debate around how best to respond to the use of chemical weapons has shifted rapidly from a possible U.S. military strike to a diplomatic effort to get Mr. Assad to give up the weapons.

“The optimistic scenario is that we’re going to now have a U.N. system put in place to monitor and control Syria’s chemical weapons,” said Mr. Riedel. “If there are questions about who is in control of the weapons, it makes that whole mission harder.”

What’s worse, he said, is that as international pressure mounts on Mr. Assad to comply with international specialists, there could be “Syrian military units and generals who believe keeping chemical weapons is their trump card and key to their survival.”

“Any U.N. disarmament effort is going to become even more complicated because they’re going to have to use forces to get that general to give it up — the generals hide things [and] I can envision in the chaos that’s going on in Syria today, some Syrian general saying, ‘I don’t care what the president says, I don’t care what the minister says, I’ve got to have my insurance policy and it is hanging onto a stash of chemical weapons.’”

While President Obama and Secretary of State John F. Kerry have given firm pronouncements blaming the Syrian government for using chemical weapons last month, the administration also has done a rhetorical dance around the question of who actually authorized and carried out the attack.

With the White House appearing to dial back its push for a U.S. military response in the face of resistance from Congress and from other world powers during recent days, some senior administration officials have appeared to acknowledge outright the lack of intelligence directly linking Mr. Assad to the attack.

White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough told CNN on Sunday that the administration simply does not have “irrefutable, beyond-a-reasonable-doubt evidence” to show Mr. Assad ordered the attack. Instead, Mr. McDonough said the administration relied on the “common-sense test” to more broadly pin the attacks on the “Assad regime.”

Mr. McDonough also suggested the administration was disinterested in the skepticism that such remarks might be triggering. “This is not a court of law,” he said. “And intelligence does not work that way.”

In addressing the nation from the White House Tuesday night, Mr. Obama reiterated a claim that other senior administration officials such as Mr. Kerry have made. “We know the Assad regime was responsible,” Mr. Obama said.

The president used careful language to convey the roots of that conviction. “In the days leading up to Aug. 21, we know that Assad’s chemical weapons personnel prepared for an attack near an area they where they mix sarin gas,” he said. “They distributed gas masks to their troops. Then they fired rockets from a regime-controlled area into 11 neighborhoods that the regime has been trying to wipe clear of opposition forces.”

Mr. Obama’s remarks were a shade broader than the initial case that he and others laid out two weeks ago when the White House circulated an unclassified version of a report that it had titled the “U.S. Government Assessment of the Syrian Government’s Use of Chemical Weapons.”

The classified report remains secret. But the unclassified version made mention of Mr. Assad by name only once, asserting that he “is the ultimate decision maker for the chemical weapons program and members of the program are carefully vetted to ensure security and loyalty.”

The document did not delve directly into the possibility that a rogue Syrian general may have used the chemical weapons without Mr. Assad’s approval. It did, however, seem to hedge around the possibility.

“We have a body of information, including past Syrian practice, that leads us to conclude that regime officials were witting of and directed the attack on August 21,” the report said. “We intercepted communications involving a senior official intimately familiar with the offensive who confirmed that chemical weapons were used by the regime on August 21 and was concerned with the U.N. inspectors obtaining evidence.”

Mr. Kerry has gone perhaps further than any other administration official in his description of the intelligence.

Appearing in London on Monday with British Foreign Secretary William Hague, Mr. Kerry said that “the chemical weapons in Syria we have tracked for some period of time now are controlled in a very tight manner by the Assad regime.”

“It is Bashar al-Assad and Maher al-Assad, his brother, and a general who are the three people who have control over the movement and use of chemical weapons,” Mr. Kerry said. “But under any circumstances, the Assad regime is the Assad regime. And the regime issues orders. And we have high-level regime [members] that have been caught giving these instructions and engaging in these preparations with results going directly to President Assad.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...-bashar-assad-approved-chemical-attac/?page=2
 

OrbitalDawn

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Putin's not trying to start WW3

hurr_train.jpg
 

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Mmm, Killa, seems your obfuscation is working, or being awake for two days, is making me not see key points in your waffle and obfuscation.

You earlier said:

There is no part of the resolution that says: If you and your friends want to kill innocent people and destroy libya you can.

Then:

If you haven't bothered to read the resolution to back your my friends said i could do it so i did, i really can't argue about it or debate it.

So, I presume you expect me to go find some info, in the resolution I earlier linked to, that shows "the USA had friends that said they can be involved in Libya".

It's simple, read the wikipedia quote here http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...ict-Thread?p=11129363&viewfull=1#post11129363 for the summary of the "friends said i could do it so i did".

Now, stop talking BS and stick the facts.
 

LazyLion

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As much as I hate to agree with Putin, his opinion piece is right on the money.
There is nothing that he says in there that I can argue with.
If the US takes action in Syria now, they are going to be seen as an Aggressor.
 

sand_man

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If the US takes action in Syria now, they are going to be seen as an Aggressor.

Ironic isn't it?

100 000 dead and countless more displaced in a 2 year civil war with no end in sight and politicians are doing what they do so well and that is to deflect... deflect the attention to US/Russia/UN. No wonder issues never get resolved.

The onus falls on the West to prove Assad used chemical weapons.

That the nation is virtually on its knees isn't an issue.

Did Assad use chemical weapons? No. Okay carry on... We will revisit in 5 years time when 300 000 are dead and 10m have been displaced. Until then, as you were...
 

LazyLion

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We will revisit in 5 years time when 300 000 are dead and 10m have been displaced. Until then, as you were...

Religious Arabs killing Militant Arabs in a civil war? Can't say I see too much of a problem with that.
Let them wipe each other out.
It's the women and children you have to cry for.
 

sand_man

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Religious Arabs killing Militant Arabs in a civil war? Can't say I see too much of a problem with that.
Let them wipe each other out.
It's the women and children you have to cry for.

Exactly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_civil_war

By the early months of 2013 the UNHCR announced that the number of refugees had topped 1 million, and by March 2013 had risen to 1,204,707 people. A spokeswoman for UNHCR, Sybilla Wilkes, also reported that the rate of flight from Syria was increasing. "In March an average of 10,000 people crossing per day. In February it was 8,000. In January it was 5,000. The numbers keep going up and up."
 

LazyLion

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US Warships ready to strike hard if needed

US warships in the Mediterranean remain ready to "strike hard" against the Syrian regime if ordered by President Barack Obama, the Navy's top civilian said on Wednesday.

Even as Washington put off possible military action against Damascus to pursue a last-ditch diplomatic solution, comments from Navy Secretary Ray Mabus provided a reminder that American destroyers equipped with cruise missiles are still in place in the eastern Mediterranean with no orders to leave.

"Two weeks ago, when new and horrifying images from Syria flashed across our televisions and streamed across our iPads, the US Navy and Marine Corps team was already there, in the Mediterranean and the waters of the Middle East," Mabus said in a speech at the National Defense University.

"I guarantee you that if we are called upon to strike, we will strike hard and we will strike fast," Mabus said.

He spoke a day after Obama delivered a televised address to the country arguing for "limited" military action if President Bashar al-Assad's regime refuses to give up its chemical weapons arsenal.

"As the president said last night, it (the attack) will be targeted and it will degrade the Assad regime's capabilities," Mabus said.

The Navy secretary's remarks underlined that naval forces will be at the forefront of any US attack on Syria, which is expected to rely mainly on Tomahawk missiles launched from vessels at sea.

Four US destroyers armed with cruise missiles were deployed to the eastern Mediterranean after the Syrian crisis escalated, as Obama weighed possible punitive strikes over an alleged chemical weapons attack by the Assad regime. An aircraft carrier strike group, including the carrier USS Nimitz along with warships armed with Tomahawks, was also sent to the Red Sea and is still there.

Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel meanwhile phoned the commander the USS Barry, one of the four guided-missile destroyers deployed to the Mediterranean, to thank the crew for staying at sea beyond their scheduled tour, the Pentagon said in a statement.

"Secretary Hagel thanked Commander (Tom) Dickinson and his sailors for their service during this period of heightened readiness," it said.

In his speech, Mabus cited the Navy's role in the confrontation with Syria as an example of the value of America's vast naval forces.

"We didn't have to surge forces. We didn't have to surge equipment. We didn't have to escalate the situation. The nation had immediate options because of our immediate presence," Mabus said.

"We reassure our partners that we are there, and remind those who may wish our country and allies harm that we're never far away. That is American seapower."

But he warned that "mindless" automatic budget cuts and political stalemate in Congress threatened to undermine America's naval reach.

He said that "if Congress fails to act to correct course there is the potential to seriously diminish and permanently harm America's indispensable maritime forces endangering not just our country but the world."

Within 12 to 18 months, sailors and US Marines will deploy without necessary training, Mabus said, opening the way to what he called a "hollow force."


Source : Sapa-AFP /nsm
Date : 12 Sep 2013 04:58
 

LazyLion

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Russia offers four step plan for Chemical Weapons hand over

Russia has handed the United States a plan for the Syrian regime to hand over its chemical weapons in four stages, starting with Damascus becoming a member of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, a report said Thursday.

The plan, first announced by Moscow this week, aims to avert threatened US military action in retribution for a chemical weapons attack outside Damascus that the West says was perpetrated by the Syrian regime.

Revealing the details of the plan for the first time, Russia's Kommersant daily said it had been given to the American side on Tuesday, although Russia only announced on Wednesday evening that the plan had been passed on.

As a first step, Damascus would join the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), Kommersant said, quoting a Russian diplomatic source.

Then Syria would have to declare the location of the chemical weapons arsenals and where they are made. The third step would be allowing OPCW inspectors into Syria to examine them.

The final step would be deciding, in cooperation with the inspectors, how to destroy the weapons.

Kommersant, which is known for its strong foreign ministry sources, said that who would physically destroy the weapons has yet to be decided but it was not excluded that the United States and Russia could do this jointly.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and US counterpart John Kerry are due to discuss the plan in Geneva in talks Thursday.

Kommersant said that it was the American side who requested the talks after receiving a copy of the details of the Russian plan.


Source : Sapa-AFP /pk
Date : 12 Sep 2013 08:16
 

LazyLion

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UN Security Council Powers hold Syria resolution talks

UN Security Council envoys from Britain, China, France, Russia and the United States held talks Wednesday on the Syrian chemical weapons crisis, but no agreement was reached.

"They discussed elements that could go into a resolution" on Syria, said one UN diplomat, referring to the 45-minute meeting between the council's veto-wielding permanent members.

The talks took place at Russia's UN mission in New York. "Everyone set out their position but there were no real negotiations," a Council diplomat added.

Russia has so far blocked Security Council moves to put pressure on its ally President Bashar al-Assad. But a meeting between US Secretary of State John Kerry and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in Geneva starting Thursday will determine whether the divided council can reach an accord.

"Everyone seems to want to leave space for the Kerry-Lavrov initiative," said the Council diplomat.

Kerry and Lavrov are to discuss a Russian plan to put Syria's arsenal of chemical weapons under international supervision and head off a threatened US military strike.

France, Britain and the United States have been pressing for a resolution that would impose "extremely serious" consequences on the Assad government if it fails to hand over control of its banned chemical weapons.

Under a French drafted resolution obtained by AFP, the council would give Syria 15 days to say where all its chemical arms are.

The resolution would threaten action under Chapter VII of the UN Charter which allows for possible military measures. France has said it is ready to back a US military attack on Assad's forces over a suspected chemical weapons attack on August 21 near Damascus.

But Lavrov has said it would be "unacceptable" for the 15-nation Council to pass a text that blames Assad for the attack. Russia also rejects any use of Chaper VII force, diplomats said.

France has indicated it is ready to make limited changes to its text but insists that it must maintain pressure on Assad.

Diplomats predicted the Security Council talks will last several days after the end of the Kerry-Lavrov negotiations and that key changes would have to be made to any resolution put to the vote.

Kerry and Lavrov are to discuss a Russian plan to put Syria's arsenal of chemical weapons under international supervision.

The Security Council faces mounting criticism over what UN leader Ban Ki-moon has called its "embarrassing paralysis" over the 30-month old conflict in Syria in which more than 100,000 people have died.

"Our collective failure to prevent atrocity crimes in Syria of the past two-and-a-half years will remain a heavy burden on the standing of the United Nations and its member states," Ban told a UN meeting Wednesday.

EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton said: "It is regrettable that the Council has been unable to reach agreement on how to shoulder its responsibilities with regard to the Syrian conflict."


Source : Sapa-AFP /nsm
Date : 12 Sep 2013 01:29
 

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Under a French drafted resolution obtained by AFP, the council would give Syria 15 days to say where all its chemical arms are.

7 Days...then 15 days...

Watch the fake Russian plan (another Sarindar..?) take months to implement...
 

killadoob

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Ironic isn't it?

100 000 dead and countless more displaced in a 2 year civil war with no end in sight and politicians are doing what they do so well and that is to deflect... deflect the attention to US/Russia/UN. No wonder issues never get resolved.

The onus falls on the West to prove Assad used chemical weapons.

That the nation is virtually on its knees isn't an issue.

Did Assad use chemical weapons? No. Okay carry on... We will revisit in 5 years time when 300 000 are dead and 10m have been displaced. Until then, as you were...

So tell me, assad is removed. What then? A government with shariah law, both rebels and jihadists want shariah law. So have syrians move forward now? Surely there will be a civil war carrying on when assad leaves? Go look around sandman, people think o remove assad and syria will flourish. Well a decade later iraq is worse than it has ever been and more people are dying in iraq monthly than in syria.

So i just don't get how people buy into this remove him and the country will thrive, if you look at the revolutions, there has not been a single success. Whether the US intervened or not, there is not one success story. Egypt was close but then democracy went out the window.

Declaring war on a country involved in a civil is the way forward? yea genius and history has proven intervention works right? Killing syrians to save syrians knowing there will still be a civil war between all the factions. So nothing will change. Bomb syria!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yay go USA, history has your back and interventions have worked when you bomb a country.
 
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LazyLion

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Kerry set to test Russian on Chemical Weapons Plan

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry has arrived in Geneva to test the seriousness of a Russian proposal to secure Syria's chemical weapons.

Kerry and a team of U.S. experts will have at least two days of meetings with their Russian counterparts on Thursday and Friday. They hope to emerge with an outline of how some 1,000 tons of chemical weapons stocks and precursor materials as well as potential delivery systems can be safely inventoried and isolated under international control in an active war zone and then destroyed.

Officials with Kerry said they would be looking for a rapid agreement on principles for the process with Russians, including a demand for a speedy Syrian accounting of their stockpiles.


Source : Sapa-AP /pk
Date : 12 Sep 2013 10:49
 

killadoob

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So what do you think should be done, killa?

Extremists are flooding into the country, we don't know the extent but i would suggest a UN team led by the US and Russia(working together should strengthing relations) but supporting Assad, FSA and the kurdish movement. Slaughter every single extremist, get jordan and turkey to stop allowing terrorists to flood in, plug the hole to stop fighters getting in from iraq. Take control of the country and ensure every extremist is gone and you have the borders under control.

From there, destroy the chemical weapons. Hold elections, assad managed to run a country that was secular for many decades, jews even lived there. No party that has shariah law in mind will be considered legitimate. Let the syran people decide who runs their country and assad should be allowed to be part of the elections.

Sadly that is not planet earth so that plan is a bunch of crap and the agenda is the removal of assad. The opposition cannot get along(excluding extremists) so removing assad as a plan is an idiotic one and will lead to a new iraq or it will lead to country with harsh shariah laws. My biggest problem with bombing assad is there is no after we bomb plan as usual orbital. Just bomb assad. Just like libya, bomb the shyte out of them, get rid of ghaddaffi and then what? Nothing a messed up country that will never recover just like iraq. Bombing countries does not bring peace. It only brings more war. The think tank in the US is mind blowing, bomb assad. Wow the level of that plan is just incredible.
 
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