The Syrian Conflict Thread

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Oh wait, forget months...it's decades...

Based on past history, it could take billions of dollars and at least a decade to destroy Syria's estimated 1,000 tons of chemical weapons — a task complicated by the fact that removing those weapons from the mix would not end the country's civil war.

"It's very difficult to see how a process like that is going to work in the middle of a war zone," said Faiza Patel, a former senior policy officer at the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, or OPCW, who now serves as co-director of the Brennan Center's Liberty and National Security Program at New York University. "It's a process that is very complicated and quite challenging to manage, even in normal circumstances."

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/toxic-task-how-destroy-syrias-chemical-weapons-8C11133187

 

[Lightscribe]

Extremists are flooding into the country, we don't know the extent but i would suggest a UN team led by the US and Russia(working together should strengthing relations) but supporting Assad, FSA and the kurdish movement. Slaughter every single extremist, get jordan and turkey to stop allowing terrorists to flood in, plug the hole to stop fighters getting in from iraq. Take control of the country and ensure every extremist is gone and you have the borders under control.

From there, destroy the chemical weapons. Hold elections, assad managed to run a country that was secular for many decades, jews even lived there. No party that has shariah law in mind will be considered legitimate. Let the syran people decide who runs their country and assad should be allowed to be part of the elections.

Sadly that is not planet earth so that plan is a bunch of crap and the agenda is the removal of assad. The opposition cannot get along(excluding extremists) so removing assad as a plan is an idiotic one and will lead to a new iraq or it will lead to country with harsh shariah laws. My biggest problem with bombing assad is there is no after we bomb plan as usual orbital. Just bomb assad. Just like libya, bomb the shyte out of them, get rid of ghaddaffi and then what? Nothing a messed up country that will never recover just like iraq. Bombing countries does not bring peace. It only brings more war. The think tank in the US is mind blowing, bomb assad. Wow the level of that plan is just incredible.

Thus, you think assad should stay on...peace will just happen then? That's an "incredible" plan...

 

[Grant]

Just bomb assad. Just like libya, bomb the shyte out of them, get rid of ghaddaffi and then what? Nothing a messed up country that will never recover just like iraq. Bombing countries does not bring peace. It only brings more war. The think tank in the US is mind blowing, bomb assad. Wow the level of that plan is just incredible.

get over yourself killa, really, everyone has moved on, even your hated obama, but you still play the same old tune like a stuck record

"bomb syria - yay"
all becoming somewhat tiresome & infantile

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Extremists are flooding into the country, we don't know the extent but i would suggest a UN team led by the US and Russia(working together should strengthing relations) but supporting Assad, FSA and the kurdish movement. Slaughter every single extremist, get jordan and turkey to stop allowing terrorists to flood in, plug the hole to stop fighters getting in from iraq. Take control of the country and ensure every extremist is gone and you have the borders under control.

How would you know who the extremists are? Would you kill people who sympathised with them, too, including their families?

And what about the extremists that Iran is letting through? Assad isn't complaining about Hezbollah being there?

From there, destroy the chemical weapons. Hold elections, assad managed to run a country that was secular for many decades, jews even lived there. No party that has shariah law in mind will be considered legitimate. Let the syran people decide who runs their country and assad should be allowed to be part of the elections.

He was still an autocratic thug that oppressed any dissent. The 'secularism' of his regime is also not really true, as they had a de-facto Sharia law system.

The Personal Status Law 59 of 1953 (amended by Law 34 of 1975) is essentially a codified sharia. Article 3(2) of the 1973 constitution declares Islamic jurisprudence a main source of legislation.

 

[Lightscribe]

Here's a link about Russia's chemical weapons, I bookmarked a few days ago, that shows Russia is the last country on Earth, that should be "helping" any country, with their chemical weapons programs... http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/cbw/jptac008_l94001.htm

 

[killadoob]

How would you know who the extremists are? Would you kill people who sympathised with them, too, including their families?

And what about the extremists that Iran is letting through? Assad isn't complaining about Hezbollah being there?



He was still an autocratic thug that oppressed any dissent. The 'secularism' of his regime is also not really true, as they had a de-facto Sharia law system.

Nope it is widely known he was a secular president and all religions practiced without oppression. Jews lived in syria for goodness sake. My question orbital is when assad is gone will there be a government that will make shariah the law and enforce it on everyone? Can you see that happening? I can. Assad is many things but he doesn't hate people based on their religion, he hates extreme islam which we all do i think. If you can name one country where a dictator has fallen that is doing well please go for it. I think it's obvious the people cannot and will not get along so a power struggle and civil war is the end result. Assad being removed won't stop the civil war. Syria will not become democratic and all that other BS we are fed, that isn't my opinion it is backed by history.

You think the person who replaces him won't oppress people? Orbital i have given my view on what should happen, i have given my view of the situation if they are bombed and there isn't a single person in this thread who has given their perspective on the current situation, what would happen with the bombing or what could be done to stop the civil war. So how about you be the first to give me your take on what would happen if the US bombed syria and how about you give me a solution to the civil war. I get asked to do and i do it, then get criticized for it by people and no one else puts anything forward but me. So come orbital, i won't say anything i will just read it. I may even agree with it.

All i know is bombing syria won't solve the problem and that is fairly obvious to everyone, that is why obama has no support because he has no plan after the bombing. Limited we both know will be a full scale bombing just like libya.

 

[killadoob]

Here's a link about Russia's chemical weapons, I bookmarked a few days ago, that shows Russia is the last country on Earth, that should be "helping" any country, with their chemical weapons programs... http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/cbw/jptac008_l94001.htm

Yea bomb assad is the best plan right? Bomb first think later, apologize again for the lies. Blame curveball 2.0

Do it again in lebanon, then iran. Bomb, lie and say sorry. rinse, repeat over and over. If i could lie and do what i wanted and people let me do it over and over i would keep going. As long as people believe i am the good guy i can do it over and over and the people will say that was libya this is syria or that was syria this is lebanon.

 

[Lightscribe]

Yea bomb assad is the best plan right? Bomb first think later, apologize again for the lies. Blame curveball 2.0

Do it again in lebanon, then iran. Bomb, lie and say sorry. rinse, repeat over and over. If i could lie and do what i wanted and people let me do it over and over i would keep going. As long as people believe i am the good guy i can do it over and over and the people will say that was libya this is syria or that was syria this is lebanon.

Still seeing bombs everywhere? That link was about Russia's inability to deal with chemical weapons and their disposal.

Who knows, maybe the next "reporter" to chat with assad, suicide bombs him. Nice and precise.

Assad cannot remain. Too many Syrians have died and suffered, for him to remain. The next step, once the faking of the chemical weapons disarmament is underway, perhaps some country will offer him a home...oh wait, he will refuse to leave...oh well, back to bombing.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Nope it is widely known he was a secular president and all religions practiced without oppression. Jews lived in syria for goodness sake.

And? Jews, Christians, Yezidis and Zoroastrians live in Iran. Does that make Iran a secular state?

My question orbital is when assad is gone will there be a government that will make shariah the law and enforce it on everyone? Can you see that happening? I can.

I can also conceptualise an Egypt-like situation, with Islamofascists and secular rebels fighting with each other.

Assad is many things but he doesn't hate people based on their religion, he hates extreme islam which we all do i think.

He also hates people opposed to his dictatorship.

He actually doesn't hate extreme Islam that much, especially if it benefits him. He's more than happy to ally with Hezbollah who are also extremists. They just happen to be from the same branch of Islam as he is.

If you can name one country where a dictator has fallen that is doing well please go for it.

Europe?

You think the person who replaces him won't oppress people? Orbital i have given my view on what should happen, i have given my view of the situation if they are bombed and there isn't a single person in this thread who has given their perspective on the current situation, what would happen with the bombing or what could be done to stop the civil war. So how about you be the first to give me your take on what would happen if the US bombed syria and how about you give me a solution to the civil war. I get asked to do and i do it, then get criticized for it by people and no one else puts anything forward but me. So come orbital, i won't say anything i will just read it. I may even agree with it.

All i know is bombing syria won't solve the problem and that is fairly obvious to everyone, that is why obama has no support because he has no plan after the bombing. Limited we both know will be a full scale bombing just like libya.

I don't have an answer, it's a fsckup. I've already told you what would have helped stave off this civil war. Assad should have implemented democratic reforms long before it devolved into this clusterfsck it is now. People in Syria joined in the Arab Spring and started protesting his autocracy, but he chose to butcher civilians rather than implementing positive change. Tunisia would have gone down a similar road but their government gave up power sooner rather than later.

Nothing about this is pretty or utopia-like, but large-scale reform of a country never is, especially if there are so many underlying tensions and problems.

And the strike has never been about randomly 'bombing' or 'declaring war' on Syria. It was about degrading Assad's ability to use chemical weapons again. Personally I think this is pointless as it wouldn't make any real difference. The war will still continue, people will still die.

And your comparison with Libya is misleading. If the resolution said the aim is to 'protect civilians' then you need to do what has to be done to protect civilians. And the west never forced regime change, the Libyan people themselves did that. They're the ones that fought and overthrew Gaddafi's regime.

 

[killadoob]

And your comparison with Libya is misleading. If the resolution said the aim is to 'protect civilians' then you need to do what has to be done to protect civilians. And the west never forced regime change, the Libyan people themselves did that. They're the ones that fought and overthrew Gaddafi's regime.

40000 bombs ensuring civilians are safe. Are you serious?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQy4vUljCwQ please research what protecting civilians means to me and you and what it means to the US and their sheep.

Rt.com but you can go google and find the truth if rt.com only lies about everything in your eyes.

So 40000 bombs never helped over throw ghaddaffi, naaa it's only 40000 freakin bombs nothing MAJOR.

 

[Tun@]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQy4vUljCwQ please research what protecting civilians means to me and you and what it means to the US and their sheep.

That wasn't even that long ago & people still can't see thru the B/S - it amazes me

 

[killadoob]

That wasn't even that long ago & people still can't see thru the B/S - it amazes me

Mind blowing how uninformed people are, they do not even know what the resolution said, let alone how many bombs were dropped and how many civilians were killed. Yet they claim syria is different without knowing anything about libya. I expect that from lightscribe but orbital eish wena bro not from you.

Unlawful bombing according to the UN but hey it is US so let's support them and defend them without knowing any facts or maybe we should ignore the facts because our support will look ridiculous then.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Reverting into old killa-mode again?

Have you even read the resolution? It says "authorizes all necessary means to protect civilians and civilian-populated areas".

I never said it didn't help. I said they didn't directly force the overthrow. Or did you opposition in Libya do nothing in your eyes? They weren't the ones that hunted down Gaddafi and killed him?

 

[Grant]

Rt.com but you can go google and find the truth if rt.com only lies about everything in your eyes.

suddenly RT is ok for you again, but it was not acceptable or credible the other day when it had the french report (& translation) of the chemical weapons attack.

you also stated you did not rely on "the media"
is RT not "the media", or is it because it is russian it must be given a free pass and not be held to the same standard & be referred to as "the media"

double standards ?
hypocrisy ?

 

[killadoob]

Reverting into old killa-mode again?

Have you even read the resolution? It says "authorizes all necessary means to protect civilians and civilian-populated areas".

I never said it didn't help. I said they didn't directly force the overthrow. Or did you opposition in Libya do nothing in your eyes? They weren't the ones that hunted down Gaddafi and killed him?

Old killa in what way? Calling people out for not knowing the facts and then saying syria will be different?

Please orbital read this http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/12/libya-un-civilian-deaths_n_925675.html
Then go read the darn resolution instead of saying the old killa is back.

They were suppose to protect civilians not bomb them with 40000 bombs. UN called it unlawful and went against the resolution. This is not an opinion or my side of the story it is a documented fact that they abused the resolution, never protected civilians instead they slaughtered civilians and they walk away with people defending them but ghaddiaffi killing people is unacceptable, nato however, well who cares if they killed thousands of innocent people defying a UN resolution. That orbital is a war crime.

No my blood boils when NATO can get away with slaughtering innocent people and people defend them, we know nato are basically the US plus sheep. They clearly defied the resolution, they clearly killed thousands of civilians, they clearly destroyed infrastructure but hey let's defend them. Sorry this isn't the old killa this is the one that gets angry when certain people can kill thousands of innocent people and get away with it unlawfully i might add and they are defended but ghaddafi was the bad man because HE WAS KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE.

Grant no media outlet was acceptable for me regarding the french release. Grant english version of the french report, link please. I won't stop asking until you give me the original in english.

 

[LazyLion]

Syrian Rebels blast Russian Offer on Chemical Weapons

Syrian rebels have blasted the Russian proposal on securing their country's chemical weapons, saying that Bashar Assad's government should instead be made to face an international court for last month's attack near Damascus.

The top rebel commander, Gen. Salim Idris, says regime officials should be referred to the International Criminal Court for the alleged Aug. 21 chemical attack near the Syrian capital that killed hundreds.

Idris, speaking for the Free Syrian Army, says "chemical weapons were the tool of the crime" in the attack in Ghouta suburb.

He says the FSA "categorically rejects the Russian initiative."

Idris' statement was broadcast on Thursday on pan-Arab satellite channels, hours ahead of talks in Geneva between U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on the Russian proposal.


Source : Sapa-AP /pk
Date : 12 Sep 2013 10:31

 

[zippy]

And your comparison with Libya is misleading. If the resolution said the aim is to 'protect civilians' then you need to do what has to be done to protect civilians. And the west never forced regime change, the Libyan people themselves did that. They're the ones that fought and overthrew Gaddafi's regime.

40000 bombs ensuring civilians are safe. Are you serious?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQy4vUljCwQ please research what protecting civilians means to me and you and what it means to the US and their sheep.

Rt.com but you can go google and find the truth if rt.com only lies about everything in your eyes.

So 40000 bombs never helped over throw ghaddaffi, naaa it's only 40000 freakin bombs nothing MAJOR.

you quoting the media again ?

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Old killa in what way? Calling people out for not knowing the facts and then saying syria will be different?

Please orbital read this http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/12/libya-un-civilian-deaths_n_925675.html
Then go read the darn resolution instead of saying the old killa is back.

They were suppose to protect civilians not bomb them with 40000 bombs. UN called it unlawful and went against the resolution. This is not an opinion or my side of the story it is a documented fact that they abused the resolution, never protected civilians instead they slaughtered civilians and they walk away with people defending them but ghaddiaffi killing people is unacceptable, nato however, well who cares if they killed thousands of innocent people defying a UN resolution. That orbital is a war crime.

No my blood boils when NATO can get away with slaughtering innocent people and people defend them, we know nato are basically the US plus sheep. They clearly defied the resolution, they clearly killed thousands of civilians, they clearly destroyed infrastructure but hey let's defend them. Sorry this isn't the old killa this is the one that gets angry when certain people can kill thousands of innocent people and get away with it unlawfully i might add and they are defended but ghaddafi was the bad man because HE WAS KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE.

Care to back up your claim that they killed "thousands of innocent people"?

Grant no media outlet was acceptable for me regarding the french release. Grant english version of the french report, link please. I won't stop asking until you give me the original in english.

The original in English? Do you still not understand why that's not possible?

 

[LazyLion]

Italian Police detain ship with 200 Refugees

Italian police said Thursday they had arrested the crew of a ship carrying more than 200 refugees believed to be from Syria, boarding and detaining the vessel in international waters in the first operation of its kind.

"This is the first capture carried out in international waters to implement international conventions... to detain and inspect a ship not flying a national flag," the police said in a statement.

The 30-metre long vessel was referred to by police as a "mother ship" used by people smugglers to bring migrants to Italian waters then put them on smaller vessels to reach the coastline.

It was spotted 200 kilometres (120 miles) south of Sicily by a Romanian patrol boat taking part in the European Union's Frontex border guard service.

Italian police have arrested all 15 crew members and detained the ship itself.

The migrants included 85 men, 50 women and 84 minors, and all said they were refugees from Syria.


Source : Sapa-AFP /sdv
Date : 12 Sep 2013 14:29

 

[killadoob]

I can only back the claims using rt and alternative news sources orbital. Much like the drone attacks there was no one on the ground counting deaths but we have an accurate number reported in syria. Anyways like i said believe what you want to believe, my emotions can get the better of me at times. If you want to believe NATO was justified and had the authority to drop 40000 bombs on libya by all means believe it.

Grant keeps telling me to google for an english version orbital, goes on and on and on about it.

Assad: Syria ceding chem arms due to Russia plan, not US threats
Moscow also called on the Syrian government to join the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.

Now that is great.