The true reason behind high crime stats.

Stressful working conditions, long hours and risking your life for a pittance is no reason to take a break to buy food at McDonalds, nor is working on the weekends a valid reason to do other personal stuff during the week.

Also, The SAP should be forced to work like people in the private sector. SAPS get paid to do a job, and gosh darn, those lazy SOBs should work a full 8 hours, all day, every day.

I mean, lets be serious here, I work with people who are just SWAMPED with work, some get 40 emails per day! These dedicated office workers require a lunch break, 5 tea breaks and 12 smoke breaks to prevent burn out. Cops hardly work anyway, they maybe get into one or two gunfights a week? That's like 200 stuffs to do versus 2, yet cops claim to be overworked??

They should extend the SAPS working hours and lower their pay....
 
Look don't get me wrong, I am sure there are cops that are dedicated and hardworking. But the majority seems to enjoy the benefits without really doing what they're paid to do.


Shouldn't they have some performance goals to meet? Like having x-amount of successfull convictions/year to qualify for an increase/bonus etc?

They seem to be an organisation with no real targets they have to meet yet they get a huge cut of our taxmoney every year.

They are non-productive if you look at the crime stats.:D
 
The notion that cr@p police = high crime is a little simplistic. We have high violent crime due to socio-economic problems. Human beings, good police or not, very rarely engage in violent behaviour unless it's been taught, or done out of necessity. You want to stop violent crime start with uplifting the poorest of the poor to some form of lifestyle where they have something to lose and engaging in risky behaviour is not desirable. We need to get more proactive rather than reactive to crime in this country.

Of course for career oriented, professional criminals like the gangs who carry ouy mall robberies and cash in transit hiests we need well trained, ruthless, dedicated well paid crack squads of police to rain bullets on the bastards. Knowing you have only got a small chance of getting away alive if you carry one of these out is some good aversion therapy.
 
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also..

The notion that good police = less crime while of course valid is less important than the relationship between poverty and crime. For example murder rates in South Africa are down 44% since 1994 in real terms however in my opinion the police are far less effective. The real cause of the decrease in violent crime is easily understood when you consider the massive economic growth. I sometimes think practically speaking people focus too much on good policing rather than decreasing poverty as the best way to reduce crime.
 
Therooster said:
The notion that cr@p police = high crime is a little simplistic. We have high violent crime due to socio-economic problems. Human beings, good police or not, very rarely engage in violent behaviour unless it's been taught, or done out of necessity. You want to stop violent crime start with uplifting the poorest of the poor to some form of lifestyle where they have something to lose and engaging in risky behaviour is not desirable. We need to get more proactive rather than reactive to crime in this country.

Of course for career oriented, professional criminals like the gangs who carry ouy mall robberies and cash in transit hiests we need well trained, ruthless, dedicated well paid crack squads of police to rain bullets on the bastards. Knowing you have only got a small chance of getting away alive if you carry one of these out is some good aversion therapy.
Click to expand...

Hate to break it to you, but poor socio-economic conditions don't correlate always with high crime. In Europe, after WW2 ended, in the late 40s, I can speak for the Eastern Parts - life was pretty hellish much worse than in SA, yet the violent crime rate was pretty low.

Poor socio-economics and disparity between rich and poor can account for some issues - but not so much for the violent nature of the crime we see.
 
DreamKing said:
interesting!

if they're off duty .......

1) why they are in uniform?
2) why they are carrying a gun?
3) why they are using POLICE vehicle?
4) why they are allowed to go banking, shopping.......

:confused:
Click to expand...

Oh my god yet another DreamKing gem.

PeterCH said:
Hate to break it to you, but poor socio-economic conditions don't correlate always with high crime. In Europe, after WW2 ended, in the late 40s, I can speak for the Eastern Parts - life was pretty hellish much worse than in SA, yet the violent crime rate was pretty low.

Poor socio-economics and disparity between rich and poor can account for some issues - but not so much for the violent nature of the crime we see.
Click to expand...

Eastern Europe has always been a dump. Same then, same now.
 
Therooster said:
also..

The notion that good police = less crime while of course valid is less important than the relationship between poverty and crime. For example murder rates in South Africa are down 44% since 1994 in real terms however in my opinion the police are far less effective. The real cause of the decrease in violent crime is easily understood when you consider the massive economic growth. I sometimes think practically speaking people focus too much on good policing rather than decreasing poverty as the best way to reduce crime.
Click to expand...

Those people don't kill because they are poor, they kill because its in their criminal nature....I agree we need less poverty, but its not the reason for criminal behaviour.
 
PeterCH said:
Mostly after WW2. Thank Germany and Russia for that. ;)

Do we see so much violent crime in Botswana and Zim too (except for politically motivated crime)? - doubt it.
Click to expand...

go to Mafikeng, crime there is also very low, people are poor but they have a lot of pride. There are corruption in that province, but very vew cases of violent crime or even burglary. There are hardly any houses with barbed wired, they still have 'oogiesdraad' fences. The place has almost half a million people, about 10% of them live in the upperclass. Why is it that they are not so violent??....
 
PeterCH said:
Hate to break it to you, but poor socio-economic conditions don't correlate always with high crime. In Europe, after WW2 ended, in the late 40s, I can speak for the Eastern Parts - life was pretty hellish much worse than in SA, yet the violent crime rate was pretty low.

Poor socio-economics and disparity between rich and poor can account for some issues - but not so much for the violent nature of the crime we see.
Click to expand...

You're breaking nothing new to me. It's not a perfect correlation but it's a very strong one. Not all poor very people are violent , but almost all very people that are violent are poor.

In cases where you have very poor societies that are less violent there's often a third socio-polotical force at play. Religion, cultural practicies etc. Wealth is not the only variable in determining behaviour, but when it comes to violent crime it's a strong variable. People with nothing to lose are more apathetic about their lives and therefore less empathetic of others. People with soemthing to lose are just not likely to engage in risky behaviour such as engage in violence.

I know people want to think their world is simple and label everything nicely into little packages. But the lack of good police is probably not in the top 10 things that cause violent crime .Given the resources human beings interact very peacefully and pleasantly. It when resources are scarce that society breaks down.
 
Morgoth said:
go to Mafikeng, crime there is also very low, people are poor but they have a lot of pride. There are corruption in that province, but very vew cases of violent crime or even burglary. There are hardly any houses with barbed wired, they still have 'oogiesdraad' fences. The place has almost half a million people, about 10% of them live in the upperclass. Why is it that they are not so violent??....
Click to expand...

I've also noticed this about Mafikeng. It's very much an african city but you get the feeling that things get done there. Of course it helped I stayed on a glorious golf estate.
 
Therooster said:
I've also noticed this about Mafikeng. It's very much an african city but you get the feeling that things get done there. Of course it helped I stayed on a glorious golf estate.
Click to expand...

When I was there this past week, in the poorer areas, I counted 2 shacks in the entire town, Magope might have been a corrupt person , but he gave a lot back to his people.
 
Conradl said:
Stressful working conditions, long hours and risking your life for a pittance is no reason to take a break to buy food at McDonalds, nor is working on the weekends a valid reason to do other personal stuff during the week.

Also, The SAP should be forced to work like people in the private sector. SAPS get paid to do a job, and gosh darn, those lazy SOBs should work a full 8 hours, all day, every day.

I mean, lets be serious here, I work with people who are just SWAMPED with work, some get 40 emails per day! These dedicated office workers require a lunch break, 5 tea breaks and 12 smoke breaks to prevent burn out. Cops hardly work anyway, they maybe get into one or two gunfights a week? That's like 200 stuffs to do versus 2, yet cops claim to be overworked??

They should extend the SAPS working hours and lower their pay....
Click to expand...

I do hope you are being sarcastic. Comparing office workers to cops?

Come on, you really going to compare cops getting into gun fights with criminals to getting 40 emails.:wtf:

I guess answering 40 emails must be really traumatic dude, you poor thing.

And why can't cops buy thier lunch at Mac's? Do you own a rival restaurant?:D

Believe me cops handle a lot more then 2 shoot outs a month.
 
Ronjay said:
I do hope you are being sarcastic. Comparing office workers to cops?

Come on, you really going to compare cops getting into gun fights with criminals to getting 40 emails.:wtf:

I guess answering 40 emails must be really traumatic dude, you poor thing.

And why can't cops buy thier lunch at Mac's? Do you own a rival restaurant?:D

Believe me cops handle a lot more then 2 shoot outs a month.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that one :D
 
I am sick of hearing how the job is affecting cops so they need so much sick leave it costs us R50mil a year!

Lots of youths went through the national service system often going through much worse than what the average cop goes through performing his normal duties every day, without getting anything for the trauma and stress they went througH.:D
 
People complain about cops and how much it costs but what exactly are these people doing to prevent crime. Think what a country we would live in if there where no cops at all. Come on, how many of you are willing to put your lives on the line to take down cash in transit robbers etc that are better armed and completely unafraid to die.

Yes there is big problems in the police, corruption, inadiquit training etc but instead of wingeing about it why not be constructive. Report corruption when you come across it and look for ways to support police activity.
 
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