Electing a muslim president is not the problem. The problem is that the constitution was Islamic.
Do do laser shows on the Giza pyramids and stuff. Mostly boring. Obviously re-purposed for this.What's with all the green lasers?
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The Unrest in Egypt Thread 2013
- Thread starter LazyLion
- Start date
OzzieCapie
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Turkey is democratic and secular. The protests there are of a different nature
They did....took a bit longer though.
SpiderMonkey
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In this case, it's not so simple. Morsi had only 24% of the vote after the first round. He promised to include all of the people who supported him in the future Egypt and basically became another autocrat pushing his own agenda. At the end of the day he was trying to push his vision onto the country with only a slight overall majority (54%) and even lower direct support (24%). I would definitely not be traveling there in the next couple of weeks. Still a lot going to happen because he does have a very fervent base and they have vowed to support him through violence, if necessary. It sets a very dangerous precedent with the army "evicting" him. From what I hear, they have already started arresting the top 300 Muslim Brotherhood brass and have also shut down the pro Muslim Brotherhood stations. I can see why the people are happy with the decision, though, I would get very annoyed if 25% of the population were thrusting their agenda down my throat.
Nerfherder
Honorary Master
They were showing on Al-jazeera how the country is split over this, there may actually be a civil war.
killadoob
Honorary Master
You are mistaken, the government is trying to impose sharia, http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/turkey-erupting-volcano, no different in turkey but the turks won't sit by and let it happen. The people of the muslim world want change, they want to move into 2013 but the governments are the ones keeping them down for the most part, look at saudi arabia, they will never change. Bahrain same story. We need a global rule that all governments must all be secular. More chance of iraq actually becoming peaceful in the next 4 decades.
Yup nerf a civil war is on the cards, that is why the army is ready to respond with force they said, similar to syria, libya etc you need to try crush it early or it gets out of control. Morsi supporters must go home or they will be nailed if they get out of hand. The army will nail morsi supporters quickly so i don't see civil war. No intervention either.
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akescpt
Honorary Master
Bad bad news. The army doesn't know it's place apparently. Army will run this country soon.
Albereth
Honorary Master
I take it hat Egypt will now be ignored by the AU because of the coup. Or is that just something reserved for Madagascar?
killadoob
Honorary Master
http://rt.com/news/aljazeera-channels-forced-egypt-635/
This is looking more like a coup. Although the pro morsi okes need their heads screwed back on. Sharia law is crap and if they want to follow it they are free to do so now but all Egyptians can follow whatever belief they like and know they can kiss on the street or wear short skirts/jeans, stuff we take for granted.
Qatar basically own the army, the Egyptian sunni isn't the same as an iraq sunni. There seems to be a big western influence egypt.
Right now albereth i don't think anyone really gives a crap about the double standard you speak of. They are trying to ensure that Egypt does not erupt into a civil war.
This is looking more like a coup. Although the pro morsi okes need their heads screwed back on. Sharia law is crap and if they want to follow it they are free to do so now but all Egyptians can follow whatever belief they like and know they can kiss on the street or wear short skirts/jeans, stuff we take for granted
.Qatar basically own the army, the Egyptian sunni isn't the same as an iraq sunni. There seems to be a big western influence egypt.
Right now albereth i don't think anyone really gives a crap about the double standard you speak of. They are trying to ensure that Egypt does not erupt into a civil war.
Albereth
Honorary Master
They didn't. A few did.
ToxicBunny
Oi! Leave me out of this...
I reckon we're looking at civil war in the next short while...
I would stay the fek out of Egypt for a good few months.
What worries me though is the statements from supporters like "Islam is coming"... why do we feel the need to bring religion into governing a large disparate body of people, it pisses on my battery in a big way.
I would stay the fek out of Egypt for a good few months.
What worries me though is the statements from supporters like "Islam is coming"... why do we feel the need to bring religion into governing a large disparate body of people, it pisses on my battery in a big way.
You'll find even after 4 they still ended up with a dictatorship. Amazes me people think democracies in the M.E are just going to spring up orderly and peacefully overnight and if they don't it proves the people are hopeless and require dictatorship and oppression. Even a cursory examination of Western history will show mass slaughter and brutality on the long road to democracy that makes the M.E seem amateurish in comparison
Hamish McPanji
Honorary Master
After a cursory examination of a lot of the comments on internet forums in general, i have concluded that the average forumite doesn't read history.
Democracy hatched like an egg, after sitting on it for a couple of days.
^^vampire^^
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Lol, just got back from holiday there. Cairo was like a ghost town on Sunday - like a scene from the walking dead - was quite eery.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Army Ousts Morsi, New Leader to be sworn in
With Egypt's first democratically elected president overthrown by the military, the country on Thursday faced an unprecedented political limbo. Milllions celebrated all night while Mohammed Morsi - ousted after only a year in office by the same kind of Arab Spring uprising that brought the Islamist leader to power - and his Muslim Brotherhood blasted the action as a "full coup" by the generals.
The military on Wednesday also suspended the Islamist-drafted constitution, called for new elections and announced it would install a temporary civilian government. The country's chief justice was to be sworn in as interim president later Thursday.
Millions of anti-Morsi protesters around the country erupted in celebrations after the televised announcement by the army chief on Wednesday evening. Fireworks burst over crowds in Cairo's Tahrir Square, where men and women danced, shouting, "God is great" and "Long live Egypt."
Fearing a violent reaction by Morsi's Islamist supporters, troops and armored vehicles deployed in the streets of Cairo and elsewhere, surrounding Islamist rallies. Clashes erupted in several provincial cities when Islamists opened fire on police, with at least nine people killed, security officials said.
Gehad el-Haddad, a spokesman for the Muslim Brotherhood party, said Morsi was under house arrest at a Presidential Guard facility where he had been residing, and 12 presidential aides also were under house arrest.
The army took control of state media and blacked out TV stations operated by the Muslim Brotherhood. The head of the Brotherhood's political wing was arrested.
The ouster of Morsi throws Egypt on an uncertain course, with a danger of further confrontation. It came after four days of mass demonstrations even larger than those of the 2011 Arab Spring that toppled longtime autocrat Hosni Mubarak.
Egyptians were angered that Morsi was giving too much power to his Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamists and had failed to tackle the country's mounting economic woes.
Beyond the fears over violence, some protesters are concerned whether an army-installed administration can lead to real democracy.
President Barack Obama urged the military to hand back control to a democratic, civilian government as soon as possible but stopped short of calling it a coup d'etat.
He said he was "deeply concerned" by the military's move to topple Morsi's government and suspend Egypt's constitution. He said he was ordering the U.S. government to assess what the military's actions meant for U.S. foreign aid to Egypt - $1.5 billion a year in military and economic assistance.
The U.S. wasn't taking sides in the conflict, committing itself only to democracy and respect for the rule of law, Obama said.
On Monday, army chief Gen. Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi had given Morsi an ultimatum to find a solution to meet the demands of anti-government demonstrators in 48 hours, but the 62-year-old former engineer defiantly insisted on his legitimacy from an election he won with 51.7 percent of the vote in June 2012.
Any deal was a near impossibility, however, making it inevitable the military would move.
As the deadline approached, el-Sissi met with pro-reform leader Mohammed ElBaradei, top Muslim cleric Sheik Ahmed el-Tayeb and Coptic Pope Tawadros II, as well as opposition activists and some members of the ultraconservative Salafi movements. The consultations apparently were aimed at bringing as wide a consensus as possible behind the army's moves.
The Brotherhood boycotted the session, according to its political arm the Freedom and Justice Party.
In a last-minute statement before the deadline, Morsi again rejected the military's intervention, saying abiding by his electoral legitimacy was the only way to prevent violence. He criticized the military for "taking only one side."
"One mistake that cannot be accepted, and I say this as president of all Egyptians, is to take sides," he said in the statement issued by his office. "Justice dictates that the voice of the masses from all squares should be heard," he said, repeating his offer to hold dialogue with his opponents.
"For the sake of Egypt and for historical accuracy, let's call what is happening by its real name: Military coup," Morsi's top foreign policy adviser Essam al-Haddad wrote on his Facebook page.
After the deadline expired, el-Sissi went on state TV and said the chief justice of the Supreme Constitutional Court, Adly Mansour, would step in as interim president until new elections are held. Mansour was appointed to the court by Mubarak but elevated to the chief justice post by Morsi and will be sworn in by judges of his court.
Flanked by Muslim and Christian clerics as well as ElBaradei and two opposition activists, el-Sissi said a government of technocrats would be formed with "full powers" to run the country.
He promised "not to exclude anyone or any movement" from further steps. But he did not define the length of the transition period or when presidential elections would be held. He also did not mention any role for the military.
The constitution, drafted by Morsi's Islamist allies, was "temporarily suspended," and a panel of experts and representatives of all political movements will consider amendments, el-Sissi said. He did not say whether a referendum would be held to ratify the changes, as customary.
With Egypt's first democratically elected president overthrown by the military, the country on Thursday faced an unprecedented political limbo. Milllions celebrated all night while Mohammed Morsi - ousted after only a year in office by the same kind of Arab Spring uprising that brought the Islamist leader to power - and his Muslim Brotherhood blasted the action as a "full coup" by the generals.
The military on Wednesday also suspended the Islamist-drafted constitution, called for new elections and announced it would install a temporary civilian government. The country's chief justice was to be sworn in as interim president later Thursday.
Millions of anti-Morsi protesters around the country erupted in celebrations after the televised announcement by the army chief on Wednesday evening. Fireworks burst over crowds in Cairo's Tahrir Square, where men and women danced, shouting, "God is great" and "Long live Egypt."
Fearing a violent reaction by Morsi's Islamist supporters, troops and armored vehicles deployed in the streets of Cairo and elsewhere, surrounding Islamist rallies. Clashes erupted in several provincial cities when Islamists opened fire on police, with at least nine people killed, security officials said.
Gehad el-Haddad, a spokesman for the Muslim Brotherhood party, said Morsi was under house arrest at a Presidential Guard facility where he had been residing, and 12 presidential aides also were under house arrest.
The army took control of state media and blacked out TV stations operated by the Muslim Brotherhood. The head of the Brotherhood's political wing was arrested.
The ouster of Morsi throws Egypt on an uncertain course, with a danger of further confrontation. It came after four days of mass demonstrations even larger than those of the 2011 Arab Spring that toppled longtime autocrat Hosni Mubarak.
Egyptians were angered that Morsi was giving too much power to his Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamists and had failed to tackle the country's mounting economic woes.
Beyond the fears over violence, some protesters are concerned whether an army-installed administration can lead to real democracy.
President Barack Obama urged the military to hand back control to a democratic, civilian government as soon as possible but stopped short of calling it a coup d'etat.
He said he was "deeply concerned" by the military's move to topple Morsi's government and suspend Egypt's constitution. He said he was ordering the U.S. government to assess what the military's actions meant for U.S. foreign aid to Egypt - $1.5 billion a year in military and economic assistance.
The U.S. wasn't taking sides in the conflict, committing itself only to democracy and respect for the rule of law, Obama said.
On Monday, army chief Gen. Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi had given Morsi an ultimatum to find a solution to meet the demands of anti-government demonstrators in 48 hours, but the 62-year-old former engineer defiantly insisted on his legitimacy from an election he won with 51.7 percent of the vote in June 2012.
Any deal was a near impossibility, however, making it inevitable the military would move.
As the deadline approached, el-Sissi met with pro-reform leader Mohammed ElBaradei, top Muslim cleric Sheik Ahmed el-Tayeb and Coptic Pope Tawadros II, as well as opposition activists and some members of the ultraconservative Salafi movements. The consultations apparently were aimed at bringing as wide a consensus as possible behind the army's moves.
The Brotherhood boycotted the session, according to its political arm the Freedom and Justice Party.
In a last-minute statement before the deadline, Morsi again rejected the military's intervention, saying abiding by his electoral legitimacy was the only way to prevent violence. He criticized the military for "taking only one side."
"One mistake that cannot be accepted, and I say this as president of all Egyptians, is to take sides," he said in the statement issued by his office. "Justice dictates that the voice of the masses from all squares should be heard," he said, repeating his offer to hold dialogue with his opponents.
"For the sake of Egypt and for historical accuracy, let's call what is happening by its real name: Military coup," Morsi's top foreign policy adviser Essam al-Haddad wrote on his Facebook page.
After the deadline expired, el-Sissi went on state TV and said the chief justice of the Supreme Constitutional Court, Adly Mansour, would step in as interim president until new elections are held. Mansour was appointed to the court by Mubarak but elevated to the chief justice post by Morsi and will be sworn in by judges of his court.
Flanked by Muslim and Christian clerics as well as ElBaradei and two opposition activists, el-Sissi said a government of technocrats would be formed with "full powers" to run the country.
He promised "not to exclude anyone or any movement" from further steps. But he did not define the length of the transition period or when presidential elections would be held. He also did not mention any role for the military.
The constitution, drafted by Morsi's Islamist allies, was "temporarily suspended," and a panel of experts and representatives of all political movements will consider amendments, el-Sissi said. He did not say whether a referendum would be held to ratify the changes, as customary.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
ElBaradei, a Nobel Peace Prize laureate and the former head of the U.N. nuclear watchdog agency, said he hoped the military plan "is the beginning of a new launch for the Jan. 25 revolution when people offered their dearest to restore their freedom, dignity and social justice for every Egyptian."
Also appearing with el-Sissi was Mahmoud Badr, one of two representatives of Tamarod, or Rebel - the youth opposition movement that engineered the latest wave of protests. He urged protesters "to stay in the squares to protect what we have won."
After the speech, fireworks burst over crowds dancing and waving flags in Cairo's Tahrir Square, epicenter of the 2011 uprising. Now it was one of multiple centers of a stunning four-day anti-Morsi revolt that brought out the biggest anti-government rallies Egypt has seen.
A statement from Morsi's office's Twitter account quoted Morsi as saying the military's measures "represent a full coup categorically rejected by all the free men of our nation."
The army insisted it is not carrying out a coup, but acting on the will of the people to clear the way for a new leadership. El-Sissi warned that the armed forces, police will deal "decisively" with violence.
Some of Morsi's Islamist backers, tens of thousands of whom took to the streets in recent days, have vowed to fight to the end, although he urged everyone "to adhere to peacefulness and avoid shedding blood of fellow countrymen."
"Down with the rule of the military!" some of them chanted after el-Sissi's speech, reviving a chant used by leftist revolutionaries during the nearly 17 months of direct military rule that followed Mubarak's removal.
El-Sissi warned that the armed forces and police will deal "decisively" with violence.
The army deployed troops, commandos and armored vehicles around the country. In Cairo, they were stationed on bridges over the Nile and at major intersections. They also surrounded rallies being held by Morsi's supporters - an apparent move to contain them.
After the military's 9:20 p.m. announcement, the Brotherhood's TV station went black. Islamist TV networks that have been accused of inciting violence also went off the air and some of their prominent anchors have been arrested, according to security officials speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media.
Security forces stormed the studio of Al-Jazeera Misr Mubasher and detained the staffers. The station, a branch of Qatari-run Al-Jazeera TV, has maintained a generally pro-Morsi line.
Travel bans were imposed on Morsi and top figures from the Muslim Brotherhood, including its chief Mohammed Badie and his powerful deputy Khairat el-Shater. Officials said security forces had surrounded Badie inside a tourist compound where he had been staying in the Mediterranean coastal city of Marsa Matrouh, near the Libyan border.
A security official said Saad el-Katatni, the head of the Freedom and Justice Party, and Rashad Bayoumi, one of two deputies of the Brotherhood's top leader, were arrested early Thursday. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to the press.
El-Haddad, the Brotherhood party's spokesman, said a list has been drawn up of hundreds of Brotherhood members believed wanted for arrest, including himself.
"We don't know the details. The army is not giving details," he told The Associated Press. "It is a full-fledged coup and it is turning into a bloody one too. They are arresting everybody."
Police shot dead six Islamists who opened fire on Marsa Matrouh's police headquarters as they drove past. Morsi supporters tried to storm a police station in the southern city of Minya, but where battled back by police, killing three, while other Islamists destroyed cars and shops and threw stones at a church in the nearby city of Deir Mawas, while police fired tear gas at them. Police and armed Morsi supporters also battled in the southern city of Assiut, another Islamist stronghold.
Nearly 50 people have been killed in clashes between Morsi supporters and opponents since Sunday.
Morsi took office vowing to move beyond his roots in the Muslim Brotherhood, but his presidency threw the country into deep polarization. Those who took to the streets this week say he lost his electoral legitimacy because he tried to give the Brotherhood and Islamist allies a monopoly on power, pushed through a constitution largely written by his allies and mismanaged the country's multiple crises.
Morsi and his allies say the opposition never accepted their appeals for dialogue - seen by opponents as empty gestures - and that Mubarak loyalists throughout the government sabotaged their attempts to bring change.
A major question now is whether the Brotherhood and other Islamists will push back against the new, military-installed system or can be drawn into it.
Source : Sapa-AP /pk
Date : 04 Jul 2013 08:54
Also appearing with el-Sissi was Mahmoud Badr, one of two representatives of Tamarod, or Rebel - the youth opposition movement that engineered the latest wave of protests. He urged protesters "to stay in the squares to protect what we have won."
After the speech, fireworks burst over crowds dancing and waving flags in Cairo's Tahrir Square, epicenter of the 2011 uprising. Now it was one of multiple centers of a stunning four-day anti-Morsi revolt that brought out the biggest anti-government rallies Egypt has seen.
A statement from Morsi's office's Twitter account quoted Morsi as saying the military's measures "represent a full coup categorically rejected by all the free men of our nation."
The army insisted it is not carrying out a coup, but acting on the will of the people to clear the way for a new leadership. El-Sissi warned that the armed forces, police will deal "decisively" with violence.
Some of Morsi's Islamist backers, tens of thousands of whom took to the streets in recent days, have vowed to fight to the end, although he urged everyone "to adhere to peacefulness and avoid shedding blood of fellow countrymen."
"Down with the rule of the military!" some of them chanted after el-Sissi's speech, reviving a chant used by leftist revolutionaries during the nearly 17 months of direct military rule that followed Mubarak's removal.
El-Sissi warned that the armed forces and police will deal "decisively" with violence.
The army deployed troops, commandos and armored vehicles around the country. In Cairo, they were stationed on bridges over the Nile and at major intersections. They also surrounded rallies being held by Morsi's supporters - an apparent move to contain them.
After the military's 9:20 p.m. announcement, the Brotherhood's TV station went black. Islamist TV networks that have been accused of inciting violence also went off the air and some of their prominent anchors have been arrested, according to security officials speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media.
Security forces stormed the studio of Al-Jazeera Misr Mubasher and detained the staffers. The station, a branch of Qatari-run Al-Jazeera TV, has maintained a generally pro-Morsi line.
Travel bans were imposed on Morsi and top figures from the Muslim Brotherhood, including its chief Mohammed Badie and his powerful deputy Khairat el-Shater. Officials said security forces had surrounded Badie inside a tourist compound where he had been staying in the Mediterranean coastal city of Marsa Matrouh, near the Libyan border.
A security official said Saad el-Katatni, the head of the Freedom and Justice Party, and Rashad Bayoumi, one of two deputies of the Brotherhood's top leader, were arrested early Thursday. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to the press.
El-Haddad, the Brotherhood party's spokesman, said a list has been drawn up of hundreds of Brotherhood members believed wanted for arrest, including himself.
"We don't know the details. The army is not giving details," he told The Associated Press. "It is a full-fledged coup and it is turning into a bloody one too. They are arresting everybody."
Police shot dead six Islamists who opened fire on Marsa Matrouh's police headquarters as they drove past. Morsi supporters tried to storm a police station in the southern city of Minya, but where battled back by police, killing three, while other Islamists destroyed cars and shops and threw stones at a church in the nearby city of Deir Mawas, while police fired tear gas at them. Police and armed Morsi supporters also battled in the southern city of Assiut, another Islamist stronghold.
Nearly 50 people have been killed in clashes between Morsi supporters and opponents since Sunday.
Morsi took office vowing to move beyond his roots in the Muslim Brotherhood, but his presidency threw the country into deep polarization. Those who took to the streets this week say he lost his electoral legitimacy because he tried to give the Brotherhood and Islamist allies a monopoly on power, pushed through a constitution largely written by his allies and mismanaged the country's multiple crises.
Morsi and his allies say the opposition never accepted their appeals for dialogue - seen by opponents as empty gestures - and that Mubarak loyalists throughout the government sabotaged their attempts to bring change.
A major question now is whether the Brotherhood and other Islamists will push back against the new, military-installed system or can be drawn into it.
Source : Sapa-AP /pk
Date : 04 Jul 2013 08:54
Lightscribe
Banned
Seems this time, it's going to drift towards an Iraqi/Syrian situation. Constant chaos and bombings, when a new government is installed, with major clashes erupting periodically, with strongholds being formed, as in Syria.
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LazyLion
King of de Jungle
UAE hails Egypt Army for Ousting Islamist Morsi
The United Arab Emirates has praised the Egyptian army for ousting president Mohamed Morsi, whose Muslim Brotherhood movement is the target of a crackdown in the oil-rich Gulf state.
"Egypt's great army once more proves that it is Egypt's protector ... that will ensure it remains a country of institutions and law that protects all components of the brotherly Egyptian people," Foreign Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed al-Nahayan said in statement carried by the official WAM news agency.
Egypt's army was Thursday holding Morsi in detention after forcing him out of office the previous evening following days of deadly protests against his one-year tumultuous rule.
Sheikh Abdullah said the UAE was following developments in Egypt "with satisfaction".
The UAE "is confident that the great people of Egypt are capable of overcoming these difficult moments and moving towards a secure and flourishing future," he said, adding that the UAE was seeking a strengthening of ties with Egypt.
Relations between Abu Dhabi and Cairo have been strained since the June 2012 election of Morsi as Egypt's president.
The Gulf country had lashed out at the Arab Spring uprisings that brought leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood to power in Tunisia and Egypt.
Since last year, it has been engaged in a crackdown on Emiratis and Egyptians it accuses of links to the Muslim Brotherhood.
Last month, a group of 30 Egyptians and Emiratis were charged by the UAE authorities for allegedly setting up an illegal branch of the Brotherhood, which they accuse of plotting against Gulf monarchies.
The UAE, where membership of political parties is banned, has rejected a request from Egypt for the release of its nationals.
The Gulf state, a federation of seven emirates led by oil-rich Abu Dhabi, has not seen any of the widespread pro-reform protests that have swept several Arab countries, including fellow Gulf states Bahrain and Oman.
But authorities have stepped up a crackdown on voices of dissent and calls for democratic reform.
Source : Sapa-AFP /pk
Date : 04 Jul 2013 11:27
The United Arab Emirates has praised the Egyptian army for ousting president Mohamed Morsi, whose Muslim Brotherhood movement is the target of a crackdown in the oil-rich Gulf state.
"Egypt's great army once more proves that it is Egypt's protector ... that will ensure it remains a country of institutions and law that protects all components of the brotherly Egyptian people," Foreign Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed al-Nahayan said in statement carried by the official WAM news agency.
Egypt's army was Thursday holding Morsi in detention after forcing him out of office the previous evening following days of deadly protests against his one-year tumultuous rule.
Sheikh Abdullah said the UAE was following developments in Egypt "with satisfaction".
The UAE "is confident that the great people of Egypt are capable of overcoming these difficult moments and moving towards a secure and flourishing future," he said, adding that the UAE was seeking a strengthening of ties with Egypt.
Relations between Abu Dhabi and Cairo have been strained since the June 2012 election of Morsi as Egypt's president.
The Gulf country had lashed out at the Arab Spring uprisings that brought leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood to power in Tunisia and Egypt.
Since last year, it has been engaged in a crackdown on Emiratis and Egyptians it accuses of links to the Muslim Brotherhood.
Last month, a group of 30 Egyptians and Emiratis were charged by the UAE authorities for allegedly setting up an illegal branch of the Brotherhood, which they accuse of plotting against Gulf monarchies.
The UAE, where membership of political parties is banned, has rejected a request from Egypt for the release of its nationals.
The Gulf state, a federation of seven emirates led by oil-rich Abu Dhabi, has not seen any of the widespread pro-reform protests that have swept several Arab countries, including fellow Gulf states Bahrain and Oman.
But authorities have stepped up a crackdown on voices of dissent and calls for democratic reform.
Source : Sapa-AFP /pk
Date : 04 Jul 2013 11:27