The Zimbabwe Elections 2023 thread

zulucat said:
If the Zimbabweans who manicure South African gardens had gone home to vote; perhaps the opposition would have stood a chance. But they simply don’t care, or don’t love their country. Content with being gardens boys and kitchen girls to the South Africa’s elite.
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Same can be said for expats in Europe not voting in SA elections hey?
 
TheChamp said:
That's very good, you have more credibility that the indifferent ones.

Since you are Zimbabwean I take you will have even more credibility to answer this, is there any evidence on the ground that shows that CCC has way more support than Zanu?
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The issue is CCC did not really have an actual campaigning strategy. Zanu was busy making themelves look good by fixing electricity and doing other shenanigans while CCC was busy preaching the word of God. I am yet to see any concrete evidence that CCC has more support than Zanu outside of the capital city. Zanu has a history of rigging and i am pretty sure they played around with numbers on this election... but then again based on the numbers i saw going to Zanu rallies, it is not outside the realm of possibility that they lost fair and square as well in as much as people might not want to consider that possibility.
 
ngoni615 said:
The issue is CCC did not really have an actual campaigning strategy. Zanu was busy making themelves look good by fixing electricity and doing other shenanigans while CCC was busy preaching the word of God. I am yet to see any concrete evidence that CCC has more support than Zanu outside of the capital city. Zanu has a history of rigging and i am pretty sure they played around with numbers on this election... but then again based on the numbers i saw going to Zanu rallies, it is not outside the realm of possibility that they lost fair and square as well in as much as people might not want to consider that possibility.
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So it's possible that Zanu lost the election and rigged it, but is it impossible for them to win it with actual numbers? Because some people make it look like it's a National Party and ANC situation where it's a forgone conclusion that CCC must win the election like it was a forgone conclusion that the ANC was going to win in 1994.
 
TheChamp said:
So it's possible that Zanu lost the election and rigged it, but is it impossible for them to win it with actual numbers? Because some people make it look like it's a National Party and ANC situation where it's a forgone conclusion that CCC must win the election like it was a forgone conclusion that the ANC was going to win in 1994.
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Well... i would not say it is impossible for them to win with actual numbers. A lot of people want change so for them; they are not willing to consider the possibility that Zanu actually won with actual numbers and not rigging. based on previous rigging that happened, most people are not willing to accept the possibility that maybe, just maybe, Zanu won fair and square lol. It sucks though. I was really hoping for change but oh well....
 
Zim has not had free & fair elections for decades and ZANU PF have not won any of the last few elections.

Remember the Election where Mugabe actually lost and Thabo Mbeki went and brokered a deal where they ruled as a GNU and Mugabe corrupted Morgan Tsvangirai and slowly dismantled the GNU....
 
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Something tells me black people enjoy to suffer. Because only people that enjoy suffering will keep on voting for the same people that are the very architects of their suffering. Africa is proof of that
 
Virex said:
Something tells me black people enjoy to suffer. Because only people that enjoy suffering will keep on voting for the same people that are the very architects of their suffering. Africa is proof of that
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up to a point its true, but one could add they vote along tribal lines, and ignore logic, reason and common sense.
but yip, Africa being Africa, surprised they didn't do what they usually do and have a big fat coup.
 
Virex said:
Something tells me black people enjoy to suffer. Because only people that enjoy suffering will keep on voting for the same people that are the very architects of their suffering. Africa is proof of that
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It's not about suffering, it's about your team winning. Politics in Africa is just one big soccer match. Exhibit A, after finding out Zanu won...

1000013844.jpg
 
Jet-Fighter7700 said:
up to a point its true, but one could add they vote along tribal lines, and ignore logic, reason and common sense.
but yip, Africa being Africa, surprised they didn't do what they usually do and have a big fat coup.
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As if voting along tribal lines is a black thing, was it not the same voting along tribal lines that kept the National Party in power for decades? Unless of course oppressing people who are not the same race as you looked the most logical, reasonable thing and was the last word in common sense in those days.
 
It's the human condition, we all get stuck in the grooves of our own "logic". What we need is insight into why these currently focused on tribalists are convinced of their choice before drawing conclusions.
Same for our own problem next year, need to understand each other better first.
 
ngoni615 said:
The issue is CCC did not really have an actual campaigning strategy. Zanu was busy making themelves look good by fixing electricity and doing other shenanigans while CCC was busy preaching the word of God. I am yet to see any concrete evidence that CCC has more support than Zanu outside of the capital city. Zanu has a history of rigging and i am pretty sure they played around with numbers on this election... but then again based on the numbers i saw going to Zanu rallies, it is not outside the realm of possibility that they lost fair and square as well in as much as people might not want to consider that possibility.
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Not arguing with what you said, but Zanu did not fix much which is why they are still pouring over the border into SA. Anyway as the govt it was their responsibility to fix things, not that of the opposition. No electricity for more than 20 hours most days.

Possession is 9 tenths of the law. Zanu are banking on that. Results have been announced, and their candidate is returning president, no amount of arguing or complaining will make them budge.

The rigging was not necessarily fudging the figures, but from all the election monitors reports the elections were stolen as follows:
1. CCC was not allowed at all to campaign in the rural areas until the last week of campaigning - combination of police bans, army and Zanu thugs violently breaking up rallies. Opposition banned from national TV and radio.
2. Rural voter intimidation. Forced attendance at Zanu rallies, with threats that the violence of previous elections would be unleashed. So Zanu can say look at the attendance at our rallies, we are so popular.
3. Rural voter intimidation on the day of voting. Zanu setup desks outside each polling station and recorded names and ID numbers of each voter before they went in to vote. Votes are tallied per polling station, and the voters were told that with this information it would be easy to trace whether they voted for the opposition after the election. There are videos of this, and it is mentioned as a big factor in the election monitors reports.
4. Frustration of voters in areas where opposition is strong (urban areas). Some polling stations there were no ballot papers until after 5pm, when voting was supposed to end at 7pm, so most voters just left (not allowed to vote at alternative polling stations).

The opposition "lost" the presidential election by about 400k votes. If elections were free and fair it would not be surprising if the opposition would have won the elections.
 
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Elections in Zimbabwe and the rest of Africa are "unique". As one African dictator said, how can you lose an election in which you are doing the counting.

The experience that South Africa can take from African elections is that they are free and fair, until the incumbent is threatened. When there is the real prospect of losing power all the shenanigans start. ANC is still in the position that they are confident they can get 51% of the vote, which is all you need to continue looting (no matter how close the election looks), hence free elections are tolerated. Once there is the threat that another party / coalition can get over the 51% line, it will be interesting to see whether they don't become just another African ruling party.
 
Botha22 said:
Elections in Zimbabwe and the rest of Africa are "unique". As one African dictator said, how can you lose an election in which you are doing the counting.
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It is not like that here. There are a zillion parties, all watching each other like hawks where required during the counts.
 
Botha22 said:
, Elections in Zimbabwe and the rest of Africa are "unique". As one African dictator said, how can you lose an election in which you are doing the counting.

The experience that South Africa can take from African elections is that they are free and fair, until the incumbent is threatened. When there is the real prospect of losing power all the shenanigans start. ANC is still in the position that they are confident they can get 51% of the vote, which is all you need to continue looting (no matter how close the election looks), hence free elections are tolerated. Once there is the threat that another party / coalition can get over the 51% line, it will be interesting to see whether they don't become just another African ruling party.
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Shouldn't we just accept that we are indeed running a good show and we are a shining example to the rest of Africa?

Our systems are just not that open to manipulation or abuse, we don't have Mugabes who stay in power forever, we have a healthy respect for separation of powers, even party democracy is a thing in most parties, ANC Presidents come and go, same with most other parties, that is the first thing you need to observe to see that we are indeed different.

Of course there is plenty room for improvement but by and large we are on par with any other non African democracies, even better than others.
 
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Botha22 said:
Not arguing with what you said, but Zanu did not fix much which is why they are still pouring over the border into SA. Anyway as the govt it was their responsibility to fix things, not that of the opposition. No electricity for more than 20 hours most days.

Possession is 9 tenths of the law. Zanu are banking on that. Results have been announced, and their candidate is returning president, no amount of arguing or complaining will make them budge.

The rigging was not necessarily fudging the figures, but from all the election monitors reports the elections were stolen as follows:
1. CCC was not allowed at all to campaign in the rural areas until the last week of campaigning - combination of police bans, army and Zanu thugs violently breaking up rallies.
2. Rural voter intimidation. Forced attendance at Zanu rallies, with threats that the violence of previous elections would be unleashed. So Zanu can say look at the attendance at our rallies, we are so popular.
3. Rural voter intimidation on the day of voting. Zanu setup desks outside each polling station and recorded names and ID numbers of each voter before they went in to vote. Votes are tallied per polling station, and the voters were told that with this information it would be easy to trace whether they voted for the opposition after the election. There are videos of this, and it is mentioned as a big factor in the election monitors reports.
4. Frustration of voters in areas where opposition is strong (urban areas). Some polling stations there were no ballot papers until after 5pm, when voting was supposed to end at 7pm, so most voters just left (not allowed to vote at alternative polling stations).

The opposition "lost" the presidential election by about 400k votes. If elections were free and fair it would not be surprising if the opposition would have won the elections.
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Yep this is true. One thing that people should know, is elections barely make a difference in Zim. The only way to remove ZPF is through war or armed means.
 
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