Toll fees slashed

[Fudzy]

No

Currently something like 20% of government infrastructure spend is misappropriated somehow. We have already paid for these upgrades. The money was just stolen instead of going to sanral. Why should we pay twice?

And that 20% was allocated to the particular upgrade taking place?

 

[Sinbad]

And that 20% was allocated to the particular upgrade taking place?

No

But 20% is a lot more than R60bn. The plan is for infrastructure spending to be over 3 trillion in the medium term. 20% of that is a lot of wastage.

Fact is the 60bn for these roads could very easily have come out of the fiscus with zero burden on the taxpayer, but the losses to corruption have removed the availability of these funds.

 

[Gozzy]

Let this be a lesson for everyone who voted for the ANC...

More party money for the ANC which we will be paying via this.

 

[Fudzy]

Let this be a lesson for everyone who voted for the ANC...

More party money for the ANC which we will be paying via this.

Would you be opposed if the DA or another party was doing this then? What are your thoughts on the tolling in Chapman's Peak? It's obvious that it is required to recover costs but there seems to be a much happier medium there.

 

[ajax]

Tolling in Cape Town by SANRAL is going to be blocked/contested in court by the City of Cape Town. The problem is money going to SANRAL (national) while COCT has to foot the bill for increased maintenance on the "alternate" routes.

 

[DJ...]

Where have you been hiding?
SANRAL have already indicated their intention to e-toll something like another 7 roads including a couple in Cape Town and Durban.
If it works in Gauteng then I will eat my hat it if it is not rolled out to all major metropolitan areas.
Cape Town and Durban's turn is coming ...

And this is the problem with adding a fuel levy to cover the cost...

 

[Bern]

Where have you been hiding?
SANRAL have already indicated their intention to e-toll something like another 7 roads including a couple in Cape Town and Durban.
If it works in Gauteng then I will eat my hat it if it is not rolled out to all major metropolitan areas.
Cape Town and Durban's turn is coming ...

Intention, sure, but the DA are NOT going to let that happen - they have already indicated they will fight SANRAL for any tolling around CT. I don't have time to find all the articles now, but the basic thought is rather spend money on upgrading public transport infrastructure like the railway as it can support way more people at a MUCH lower cost and in so doing reduce traffic on the roads (thus maintenance). That and BRT systems expansion will be much better, remember all of those would have "tolling" as you need to buy a ticket to use the system - just not a ticketing system that costs R10 billion (for 185 odd kms of road, retarded!!).

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

Would you be opposed if the DA or another party was doing this then? What are your thoughts on the tolling in Chapman's Peak? It's obvious that it is required to recover costs but there seems to be a much happier medium there.

Most of the city does not use the Chapman's Peak road every day to travel to work.

 

[Paul_S]

And this is the problem with adding a fuel levy to cover the cost...

Why is it a problem?
The fuel levy would have far less economic impact not just for commuters but also for logistics.
An analyst worked out that an increase of 8c/L for petrol would cover the GFIP. The ANC just upped it by 20c/L ...
http://www.iol.co.za/the-star/down-to-30c-km-but-e-tolling-system-goes-ahead-1.1240676

Tolling at 30c/km is equivalent to adding R4.29 / L onto the price of 93 ULP assuming your vehicle uses 7L/100km.
So please tell me which increase is better now?
8 cents/L or 429 cents/L ?

If the fuel levies were increase by 25 cents per litre then it would generate enough income for the entire national road infrastructure including the GFIP and the future toll road projects in Cape Town and Durban.

 

[Paul_S]

Intention, sure, but the DA are NOT going to let that happen - they have already indicated they will fight SANRAL for any tolling around CT.

The DA are already fighting the GFIP in Gauteng so let's see how successful they are before we assume they will win in their home town.
Laws can be changed and adapted to suit SANRAL's needs. The ANC is already working on giving SANRAL special jurisdiction rights in order to prosecute non-compliant offenders.

 

[Bern]

Would you be opposed if the DA or another party was doing this then? What are your thoughts on the tolling in Chapman's Peak? It's obvious that it is required to recover costs but there seems to be a much happier medium there.

You can't really compare the two - they were going to close Chappies for good as it was too expensive to maintain for the very few motorists who used it. It was just plain dangerous. the N2 generates HUGE revenue via the normal fuel levy (think how many litres of fuel are burned on it each day) and is a vital part of the access infrastructure to CT (as is the N1).

Chapman's is a nice example of where tolling is good and useful - the N2/1 in CT or JB main arteries aren't. In fact tolling should rather be done on the smaller roads in JB (R101 or whatever) as a means to improve them and limit the traffic on the main JB roads.

On Chapman's - the dodgy bastards running it are basically trying to scam some land to make some big bucks off of. Trying to build a huge office and conference centre for the toll booth "because they need it to run the business". FFS *******s we know you are just after prime land in Hout Bay for rezoning to build on, we're not dumb.

 

[Devill]

Why is it a problem?
The fuel levy would have far less economic impact not just for commuters but also for logistics.
An analyst worked out that an increase of 8c/L for petrol would cover the GFIP. The ANC just upped it by 20c/L ...
http://www.iol.co.za/the-star/down-to-30c-km-but-e-tolling-system-goes-ahead-1.1240676

Tolling at 30c/km is equivalent to adding R4.29 / L onto the price of 93 ULP assuming your vehicle uses 7L/100km.
So please tell me which increase is better now?
8 cents/L or 429 cents/L ?

If the fuel levies were increase by 25 cents per litre then it would generate enough income for the entire national road infrastructure including the GFIP and the future toll road projects in Cape Town and Durban.

I am 100% sure that it will not be enough to cover all the corrupt gold diggers... this is AFRICA and with the current bunch of thieves that will get their cut before on singel structure is raised you can add 1000% to those figures....

 

[Ricard]

Why is it a problem?
The fuel levy would have far less economic impact not just for commuters but also for logistics.
An analyst worked out that an increase of 8c/L for petrol would cover the GFIP. The ANC just upped it by 20c/L ...
http://www.iol.co.za/the-star/down-to-30c-km-but-e-tolling-system-goes-ahead-1.1240676

Tolling at 30c/km is equivalent to adding R4.29 / L onto the price of 93 ULP assuming your vehicle uses 7L/100km.
So please tell me which increase is better now?
8 cents/L or 429 cents/L ?

If the fuel levies were increase by 25 cents per litre then it would generate enough income for the entire national road infrastructure including the GFIP and the future toll road projects in Cape Town and Durban.

What car uses 7l/100KM ? 1.6l ? 1.8l ? I would put the norm at 9l/100km

 

[Chevron]

What car uses 7l/100KM ? 1.6l ? 1.8l ? I would put the norm at 9l/100km

Well considering that most people drive 1.4L (or smaller) which is usually 6.4L/100km it's a valid yard stick to use.

 

[Sinbad]

Well considering that most people drive 1.4L (or smaller) which is usually 6.4L/100km it's a valid yard stick to use.

In rush hour traffic? Not a frigging chance. 10 would be a better estimate.

 

[Paul_S]

What car uses 7l/100KM ? 1.6l ? 1.8l ? I would put the norm at 9l/100km

I get 6.5L/100km with a 2.0 Cerato on the N1 between PTA and Midrand every day and that's not even trying to baby it.
R21 Nelmapius to N1 Allandale
If I baby it - it drops to 6.0L/100km.

 

[Sinbad]

I get 6.5L/100km with a 2.0 Cerato on the N1 between PTA and Midrand every day and that's not even trying to baby it.
R21 Nelmapius to N1 Allandale

And my average is 11l/100...

*sigh*

 

[Sly21C]

I don't get paid to drive to work. Why should taxis be exempt - they don't even pay income tax!
Sorry but that is just leeching off the people who have money and I'm fed up with this socialism crap.
I've reached the point where I feel like downgrading my lifestyle so that I don't have to pay tax and can leech off others like the majority do. Why should I work hard when it's all taken away from me?

It's R550 this year, next year it will increase and the year after that ...
Soon we'll be paying R2000 per month for toll fees and the fuel levies will also just keep increasing.

You might have a legitimate problem with taxi drivers and taxi owners because of their on and off violence, erratic driving, inconsideration of other road users, etc. You might be justified with the unfairness of people like you and I of having to pay for the toll roads while taxi owners and taxi drivers ride for free. What you must bear in mind though is that there are +/- 15 passengers on that taxi. There are +/- 15 people who just want to go to work so that at the end of the month they can get paid so they can feed their families. The reason why government and SANRAL decided not to let taxis and buses pay is not because they (government) are afraid of taxis, it's not because of taxi owners and drivers themselves at all, it's about the passengers. Its about the passengers who are poor already and further burdening them will have unintended consequences.

You say taxis must be taxed, fair enough. But why aren't churches taxed?

The point I was making about people like you and me who are lucky enough to have jobs and skills is that we are better off than poor people who use taxis on a daily basis. I also earn a modest salary, I share a 2 bedroom apartment with someone which means I can't afford to buy a house. But it is possible to free up R550 a month.

 

[Chevron]

You might have a legitimate problem with taxi drivers and taxi owners because of their on and off violence, erratic driving, inconsideration of other road users, etc. You might be justified with the unfairness of people like you and I of having to pay for the toll roads while taxi owners and taxi drivers ride for free. What you must bear in mind though is that there are +/- 15 passengers on that taxi. There are +/- 15 people who just want to go to work so that at the end of the month they can get paid so they can feed their families. The reason why government and SANRAL decided not to let taxis and buses pay is not because they (government) are afraid of taxis, it's not because of taxi owners and drivers themselves at all, it's about the passengers. Its about the passengers who are poor already and further burdening them will have unintended consequences.

You say taxis must be taxed, fair enough. But why aren't churches taxed?

The point I was making about people like you and me who are lucky enough to have jobs and skills is that we are better off than poor people who use taxis on a daily basis. I also earn a modest salary, I share a 2 bedroom apartment with someone which means I can't afford to buy a house. But it is possible to free up R550 a month.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

I can, but I sure as hell won't.

 

[LCBXX]

It just makes it more worth it not to buy an e-Tag and have SANRAL up to their elbows in invoicing for half the price.