Toyota GT86

The problem with German cars is that they seem to lack the focus to build something like this. I hope that changes soon.
They need to focus on getting the basics right first. Ignore the spec sheets from competitors and focus on DRIVING.

Take the Z3 for example, crap gearbox etc. then they try to "fix it" by adding power and features, drive by wire FTL. The new Z4 was a big improvement but by the time BMW were done updating it it's more a luxurious 350/370Z competitor than a serious contender for cars like these.
The Audi TT also doesn't come close to being a "focused" car.

More with less. That's what we need.
The Japs seem to understand that.

I suppose its on the cards, the Toyota and Scooby need to really do well, and if what im reading is correct, it will.
The Germs have started, well, they have with the Mini Coupe...
I think these cars will sell fast and will force the manufacturers to compete.
 
I presume you are joking...right??! :wtf:

It is a totally new car designed from the floor up with all the engineering input coming from Subaru. Toyota have their own touches and a slightly differently tuned engine, but if you think that there is anything from any other Japanese car in either of these cars you are smoking your socks.

I meant in terms of looks, not chassis and engine. Lookswise, this could have been the 370Z design and nobody would've thought otherwise because it looks like an evolution of the 350Z.
 
Toyota South Africa has confirmed that the FT-86 (or just ‘86’ as the new, two-door sports car will be known in production form) will be launched in the second half of 2012.

The news, along with some additional confirmation on the specifications of the 86, was made public to coincide with the official unveiling of the car at the Tokyo Motor Show. Also confirmed is the power output of the Subaru-sourced flat-four engine, which will comfortably sit at 147 kW at 7 000 rpm, linked to 205 Nm of torque at 6 600 rpm.

Other important facts and numbers include a kerb weight of 1 180 kg, putting the 86 in the featherweight class, and ensuring that it is a lot lighter than anything in close competition.

The 2+2 is rumoured to offer particularly driver-friendly handling, with a rear end that is supposedly trivial to unsettle but even easier to tame.

This is probably due to the extra time that Toyota spent tuning the dynamics and suspension, all focused on enhancing the driving experience. A limited slip differential in the back should also keep things tidy in the corners, which will be especially useful when the ESP and traction control are completely disabled – a first on a modern Toyota.

But without a doubt, what makes the 86 really interesting is trying to decide what its competitors are, because there is nothing like it on the market, and very little that bears a discernable resemblance.

As far as engine specifications go, Renault’s Clio RS is probably the closest, with its 147 kW and 215 Nm 2,0-litre four potter. And while the Renault is renowned for its handling and driver-focused flair, the 86 is a good 10 percent lighter and significantly lower, not to mention the fact that it is rear-wheel driven.

The truth of the matter is that there is nothing that is close to what the 86 promises in sheer driving pleasure terms, apart perhaps from the ageing Mazda MX-5, although the 86 trumps it in every department (except for the topless part).

The Audi TT in 2.0 TFSI form offers slightly more power, loads of refinement, and the allure of a premium brand – but it’s front-wheel driven, and costs R424 000 before options.

The most direct challenge will come from the 86’s close stablemate, the Subaru BRZ, which shares the same platform and powertrain. Just how these two cars will be distinguished in price and positioning terms remains to be seen, but our guess is the Subaru will be dearer.

Even so, at an estimated price of R375 000, the Toyota 86 will need to be truly special to gain traction in this market. Luckily the 2+2 layout does add a degree of practicality to the car, which might sway some buyers from more dedicated sports cars like the two-seater MX-5. Spec levels should be high, too.

We hope the 86 well, because Toyota hasn’t made such a decisive move into the sports car market since the glory days of the Supra. And who knows, maybe there is a supercharged TRD-tuned 86 waiting in the wings…

So the power figures look weak, no turbo, will suffer at altitude.
Very little torque.
Very light, lighter than a Ford Fiesta which is good.
R375 000.
Disgusting interior.

This car needs to beat the hatchbacks, but seems to fail.

I dunno hey.
 
So the power figures look weak, no turbo, will suffer at altitude.
Very little torque.

I think you're missing the point.
First of all, 147kW pushing 1180kg from the rear is going to put a massive smile on your face regardless. Adding too much power on a RWD Sportscar makes the tail too nervous in many circumstances. Even the 2.0l they added on the new MX-5 made the car a bit tougher to control if you aren't careful. You're then left with adding bigger tires to control the power which ends up negatively affecting the steering or handling again.

RWD + Too much power --> Add more traction to control rear.
Too much traction --> Devastates the fun factor.

When HANDLING is the focus, as it seems to be with the FT-86, power doesn't matter that much even though this car seems to have more than enough. Go and take a look on Youtube what a 1.8L Lotus does to higher spec cars on a racetrack.

This clearly isn't a car intended to satisfy the Focus ST robot-to-robot ricer types. Thank goodness for that.
 
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I think you're missing the point.
First of all, 147kW pushing 1180kg from the rear is going to put a massive smile on your face regardless. Adding too much power on a RWD Sportscar makes the tail too nervous in many circumstances. Even the 2.0l they added on the new MX-5 made the car a bit tougher to control if you aren't careful. You're then left with adding bigger tires to control the power which ends up negatively affecting the steering or handling again.

RWD + Too much power --> Add more traction to control rear.
Too much traction --> Devastates the fun factor.

When HANDLING is the focus, as it seems to be with the FT-86, power doesn't matter that much even though this car seems to have more than enough. Go and take a look on Youtube what a 1.8L Lotus does to higher spec cars on a racetrack.

This clearly isn't a car intended to satisfy the Focus ST robot-to-robot ricer types. Thank goodness for that.

For R375k the torque is a bit low. Have to be at 6600rpm just for 200nm of torque. The turbocharged hatchbacks get a lot more than that and at a low 2000rpm. What's more important to know is the kilowatts and torque in the 3000rpm to 4000rpm range which is where most people will spend their time.
 
What's more important to know is the kilowatts and torque in the 3000rpm to 4000rpm range which is where most people will spend their time.

What's more important for me to know is how well the chassis and steering communicates the weight transfer, road imperfections and the limits to the driver. Very few cars get that right.

Once again, it seems this is NOT a car for the hatchback power obsessed crowd. If it was, I'd ignore it and move along swiftly.
 
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What's more important for me to know is how well the chassis and steering communicates the weight transfer, road imperfections and the limits to the driver. Very few cars get that right.

Reading the Top Gear test, the guys were most impressed with where torque was delivered, as it comes in fairly low around 2000 rpm all the way through to the top.

With respect to the dynamics and handling of the BRZ they said that it was as near to perfect that they could imagine. Steering is electric PS with apparently brilliant feel and weighting. The low centre of gravity means that it can literally be chucked around at will without losing it.

The tester sounded as if he had a huge smile on his face by the end of the day!
 
With respect to the dynamics and handling of the BRZ they said that it was as near to perfect that they could imagine. Steering is electric PS with apparently brilliant feel and weighting. The low centre of gravity means that it can literally be chucked around at will without losing it.

:D :D


The tester sounded as if he had a huge smile on his face by the end of the day!

Honestly, that is all I care about.
 
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Apart from the fact that it's a full-on Coupe (expect a convertible if it takes off)...

Read somewhere that the manufacturers say that is not going to happen, can't remember the reason though.
 
Read somewhere that the manufacturers say that is not going to happen, can't remember the reason though.

Usually the problem is that it messes with rigidity which affects handling etc.
It is possible to get past that though, but I think if you don't design a car to be a convertible from the ground up it probably becomes expensive when you add all kinds of strut braces and stuff.
 
Another thing was that they had a Porsche Cayman at the track, and they were obviously trying to match that for dynamics....looks like it worked!

Awesome!
Nothing beats good design principles and focus. Both things you cannot convey on paper.
I've just had to nail myself to the MFC cross again, so it's going to be a few years before I can "upgrade". The FT-86 is definitely on top of my list of someone else doesn't bring out something similar.

EDIT: Oh, and thanks for helping with those VIN number checks a few weeks ago, Fazda. I ended up finding what I want, cannot be happier.
 
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R375k?!?!?!

Are they bonkers?

Yup, at R375k you have a whole lot of other rather fun options available, especially when considering the second hand market. 335's, 135's (Granted, with some mileage) or even a Porsche Boxter.
 
Come on RaptorSA - you do know that the BRZ will be the better package..............;)

Yes, most probably. And as far as I remember it looks much better than the Toyota.
I'd kill for either one though.
 
147kW at sea level equates to about 112kW at high veld altitude.
The turbo charged hot hatches are going to run circles around the GT-86.

GT-86 at 5500 ft : 94kW / tonne
Golf 6 GTI at 5500 ft : 110kW / tonne

At R300K I'd possibly consider buying one but for R375K you can buy a lot more refinement and bang for your buck both new or second hand.
 
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147kW at sea level equates to about 112kW at high veld altitude.
The turbo charged hot hatches are going to run circles around the GT-86.

GT-86 at 5500 ft : 94kW / tonne
Golf 6 GTI at 5500 ft : 110kW / tonne


/facepalm
 
At R300K I'd possibly consider buying one but for R375K you can buy a lot more refinement and bang for your buck both new or second hand

I love the way people jump to conclusions on the price!

We - the dealers, have no idea what either car will cost, but suddenly it's 375k and not worth it!! :rolleyes:

This is getting like an auction, can I offer the next price at 425? :p
 
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