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Question of the Day: Will you be subscribing to the new Disney+ R49 streaming package?
Trio walks the cheap talk
- Thread starter rpm
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Shake&Bake
Party Liaison
I'm off to browse Yeigo's site now! 
Shake&Bake
Party Liaison
Damn shame they don't support Sony Ericsson. Weird though. I've got W900i and have 3G access. 
Bugger! Anyway I am on a contract, so can't get out of it now.
Bugger! Anyway I am on a contract, so can't get out of it now.
acidrain
Executive Member
Tier structuring
What happens then if the cellular networks start to do differential tier pricing on their data networks esp. with VoIP?
Come to think of it this company might put them (as in VC, MTN, CellC) in a position to forcefully place the tier structuring policy in an effort to eliminate competition. If not then what a breeze it would be to use it... unfortunately for me im already on a contract.
What happens then if the cellular networks start to do differential tier pricing on their data networks esp. with VoIP?
Come to think of it this company might put them (as in VC, MTN, CellC) in a position to forcefully place the tier structuring policy in an effort to eliminate competition. If not then what a breeze it would be to use it... unfortunately for me im already on a contract.
Its a very nifty idea, not unique though. They will either remain a niche operator or the networks will kill them. There is no way that the networks can allow this (even if we want to). Possible outcomes:
1) Networks just charge customers R23/MB or similar and disconnect users. Company is screwed.
2) Network are legally obligated not to block the service
a) They degrade service so QoS falls below reasonable level. They can do this with packet prioritization or falling behind with data network upgrades
b) They introduce their own services, bundle the software on handsets and kill these guys with marketing.
If anybody did their research they will notice that quite a few small companies in the cellular space has been killed by the big three over the last few years. And most of these companies didn't even try to compete on voice - they all had fringe services....
We are paying to much for voice and data. I however doubt if trying to build rogue VoIP and mesh networks are the best way to go about it. We should push for broad based reforms within the telecoms sector. We can do this by supporting initiatives like the municipal networks and new operators and making sure that there are appropriate political pressure were needed.
1) Networks just charge customers R23/MB or similar and disconnect users. Company is screwed.
2) Network are legally obligated not to block the service
a) They degrade service so QoS falls below reasonable level. They can do this with packet prioritization or falling behind with data network upgrades
b) They introduce their own services, bundle the software on handsets and kill these guys with marketing.
If anybody did their research they will notice that quite a few small companies in the cellular space has been killed by the big three over the last few years. And most of these companies didn't even try to compete on voice - they all had fringe services....
We are paying to much for voice and data. I however doubt if trying to build rogue VoIP and mesh networks are the best way to go about it. We should push for broad based reforms within the telecoms sector. We can do this by supporting initiatives like the municipal networks and new operators and making sure that there are appropriate political pressure were needed.
I'm hoping this forces some action or debate but with Ivy around u neva know. if they are allowed to continue on their merry way then call prices will have to be reduced incl telkom 
but if not, well same old same old.
but if not, well same old same old.Abe
Expert Member
The article is dated the 2nd May but it's still the first
Edit - Well it was up until I posted
Edit - Well it was up until I posted
Abe
Expert Member
My suggestion is that Vodacom start offering a DataCall solution where people with specified handsets can call each other for a small fee using GPRS/EDGE/3G data. All legal and 1/10 th of the price of a normal call. Obviously calling someone who is not a DataCall subscriber would cost them a normal cell rate. They would make a killing and probably corner the market.
How many people would switch to Vodacom?
How many people would switch to Vodacom?
well they can do even cell to voip if they wanted for a reduction of cost etc heck TelkomInternet has a voip package too, just they don't intergrate into their voice srevices cause then it eats into their bread and butter profit generator.
TiredOfWaiting
Expert Member
I give them about a month before their packets start disappearing or users are charged R23/MB to use it.
Pilgrim
Wugger
Yes they will. Both vodacom and mtn have filed "Data Rates" with ICASA. mtn at R25 per meg and vodacom at R23 per meg if memory serves.
I am unsure about cell c and vm but you can bet they would also have a plan in place.
I have not used yeigo yet, but i have used fring. Same concept, voip on your cell and made a call to a friend in the UK (twice now). It costs about 3 to 4 megs for a half hour call.
jetpacman
Senior Member
The idea behind Yeigo is not new, just they are. To the general public this will be something very new though. Even Skype has a client for Pocket PC based for a while.
Its good to see somepeople in South Africa trying to do this. The thing is that the networks have given off a lot of bad vibes towards VOIP (like if you look at the databundle deal from Vodacom where it says in the fine print "Not for VOIP").
I am not sure if shaping occurs on GPRS but I have noticed that some IM programs don't work on Vodacom. For example Mig33. I have to use HTTP connection for it to work. When I try to use the more basic "TCP" option it cant connect. The extra overhead of HTTP slows it down a lot. Is this shaping or just my phone. Now what do you think they will do to the likes of Yeigo if they cant buy them out.
Voice is a very important to all of the networks and they not going to give in without a fight. Mxit is already claiming a large part of the SMS market and they have let that slip by without much interference. But don't touch voice thats clearly the spine of a GSM network. Take push to talk(PTT) for example. For those who don't know its like a two radio type system where you sent short voice messages to your contacts. All voice is sent as data over GPRS...
Now instead of allowing us to use it freely it has been made very expensive and impracticle for most. There used to be a free IM client called Agile Messenger that offered this for free and even patented their client. Last I heard Agile isnt free. The built in client in my Nokia fone is all but useless at the moment without some affordable service. So thats it for PTT. PTT is only for short "burts" of chat anyway...
Now Yeigo and Fring step in and can completey take over the voice market from the networks. They have already learned from Mxit, so they know whats coming. This is business they have to make money and protect the profits. The bottom line. So I am sure they will engage this new phenomenon. Incidentlely its not just the "evil south african telecoms companies" who are not comfortable with VOIP. Just do a search for "ban VOIP" on google and see how many hits you get, even in Germany they want to ban Skype...
One thing I do know and that is that this will be interesting to watch.
Its good to see somepeople in South Africa trying to do this. The thing is that the networks have given off a lot of bad vibes towards VOIP (like if you look at the databundle deal from Vodacom where it says in the fine print "Not for VOIP").
I am not sure if shaping occurs on GPRS but I have noticed that some IM programs don't work on Vodacom. For example Mig33. I have to use HTTP connection for it to work. When I try to use the more basic "TCP" option it cant connect. The extra overhead of HTTP slows it down a lot. Is this shaping or just my phone. Now what do you think they will do to the likes of Yeigo if they cant buy them out.
Voice is a very important to all of the networks and they not going to give in without a fight. Mxit is already claiming a large part of the SMS market and they have let that slip by without much interference. But don't touch voice thats clearly the spine of a GSM network. Take push to talk(PTT) for example. For those who don't know its like a two radio type system where you sent short voice messages to your contacts. All voice is sent as data over GPRS...
Now instead of allowing us to use it freely it has been made very expensive and impracticle for most. There used to be a free IM client called Agile Messenger that offered this for free and even patented their client. Last I heard Agile isnt free. The built in client in my Nokia fone is all but useless at the moment without some affordable service. So thats it for PTT. PTT is only for short "burts" of chat anyway...
Now Yeigo and Fring step in and can completey take over the voice market from the networks. They have already learned from Mxit, so they know whats coming. This is business they have to make money and protect the profits. The bottom line. So I am sure they will engage this new phenomenon. Incidentlely its not just the "evil south african telecoms companies" who are not comfortable with VOIP. Just do a search for "ban VOIP" on google and see how many hits you get, even in Germany they want to ban Skype...
One thing I do know and that is that this will be interesting to watch.
jetpacman
Senior Member
It would be good to hear Yeigos response to this. I think Yeigo have to be careful what they say especially since what is said here does seem to have a large audience including investors, the competition and even the networks. So I wont blame them if they don't say anything, this is business...
I do think it would be suicide for them to ignore the clout and anger of the networks because that could be the spade that digs their grave. The only chance of success they have is to get into talks with the major players and be careful. They need the infrastructure provided by the networks for their survival. As long as some deals that make only allow say Yeigo to work properly and stop Fring don't happen. There needs to be competition.
Heres an exit strategy for Yeigo, make it work really good and get lots of users try and partner with Mxit. Then once you have it all sell the company to vodacom or Mtn ( Cell C seem a bit tight now) and then retire to some yacht out in table bay and play golf for the rest of your lives
I do think it would be suicide for them to ignore the clout and anger of the networks because that could be the spade that digs their grave. The only chance of success they have is to get into talks with the major players and be careful. They need the infrastructure provided by the networks for their survival. As long as some deals that make only allow say Yeigo to work properly and stop Fring don't happen. There needs to be competition.
Heres an exit strategy for Yeigo, make it work really good and get lots of users try and partner with Mxit. Then once you have it all sell the company to vodacom or Mtn ( Cell C seem a bit tight now) and then retire to some yacht out in table bay and play golf for the rest of your lives
Look - I think VoIP is a thing of the future. I also think that it will erode margins. However - I do believe that there are ways to go about it. I quite successfully use skype on my 3G contract via my laptop.
I don't understand what they try to do however. If they were smart they would have tried to corner a niche business market with higher margins. Instead they launched a customer service. Seriously - if these guys fail, they can not blame the networks.
MXit is quite a different application to SMS - so it doesn't make sense to draw a direct comparison. But if you want to you can immediately say that MXiT is unreliable as hell (outages are VERY common) and even for text they already struggle with growing infrastructure organically. Voice is 10 times more difficult to do than text. And it is going to be at least 30 times more expensive.
MXiT has the advantage that its a craze among school kids. And it runs on plain vanilla J2ME. This VoIP solution requires Symbian or Windows Mobile. Did these guys actually determine the percentage of people with Symbian phones? Did they do market research on how many people will base their handset decision on such a service? Have they actually seen what horrible response NMP got? Do they have any idea what it cost to develop and maintain mobile software (I did a bunch of Symbian programming for more than two years). Applications need to be signed. Applications can be locked out on a network's request (Due to "stability" issues).
I cheesed because these guys will end up making the networks stronger. And they will complain about failure for reasons other than their own incapability to do market research. I suggest they re-evaluate their business plan. I'm sure with their IP and skills, they can do a lot better with a slightly different product.
UPDATE:
Apparently I'm wrong. These guys are actually bluevoice.co.za. A winner of the enabilis (http://www.enablis.org/competition/winners/) competition. They also had lots of support from various companies it seems. Maybe it will work. Who am I to critique FNB, Microsoft etc. The mobile networks will roll over and die! I'm going to punish myself now.
NOT.
I don't understand what they try to do however. If they were smart they would have tried to corner a niche business market with higher margins. Instead they launched a customer service. Seriously - if these guys fail, they can not blame the networks.
MXit is quite a different application to SMS - so it doesn't make sense to draw a direct comparison. But if you want to you can immediately say that MXiT is unreliable as hell (outages are VERY common) and even for text they already struggle with growing infrastructure organically. Voice is 10 times more difficult to do than text. And it is going to be at least 30 times more expensive.
MXiT has the advantage that its a craze among school kids. And it runs on plain vanilla J2ME. This VoIP solution requires Symbian or Windows Mobile. Did these guys actually determine the percentage of people with Symbian phones? Did they do market research on how many people will base their handset decision on such a service? Have they actually seen what horrible response NMP got? Do they have any idea what it cost to develop and maintain mobile software (I did a bunch of Symbian programming for more than two years). Applications need to be signed. Applications can be locked out on a network's request (Due to "stability" issues).
I cheesed because these guys will end up making the networks stronger. And they will complain about failure for reasons other than their own incapability to do market research. I suggest they re-evaluate their business plan. I'm sure with their IP and skills, they can do a lot better with a slightly different product.
UPDATE:
Apparently I'm wrong. These guys are actually bluevoice.co.za. A winner of the enabilis (http://www.enablis.org/competition/winners/) competition. They also had lots of support from various companies it seems. Maybe it will work. Who am I to critique FNB, Microsoft etc. The mobile networks will roll over and die! I'm going to punish myself now.
NOT.
Last edited:
AndrewMB
Active Member
Why do you never find providers contact details on their website - are they scared of something or what?
Usually the first thing I do before I register at a website for a specific service is to see if I can find the contact details of the provider.
Oops where can I find the telephone number of Yeigo?
Sorry Yeigo - unfortunately I prefer not to subscribe.
Usually the first thing I do before I register at a website for a specific service is to see if I can find the contact details of the provider.
Oops where can I find the telephone number of Yeigo?
Sorry Yeigo - unfortunately I prefer not to subscribe.