UP closes campus after student clashes

[Pitbull]

How has this erosion of white advantage manifested to the significant detriment of whites, if I may ask?

Not in wealth, as white wealth grew exponentially post apartheid. Not in unemployment, as it's remained pretty stable post apartheid. Not in access to education, as whites still have the highest levels of access. Not in income, as whites still earn roughly 6 times per family than blacks etc.



Do you really think this? Blacks are worse off in every measurable metric simply because there are more of them?

Our history has nothing to do with it?

It's called adapting.

Whites have been retrenched to make place for BEE and AA. They go out, dirty their hands and start their own thing as they need to feed their families. They don't depend on government charity to survive. This again is not what was expected so the white people are not suffering enough. We need to find another way to make them pay.

Nothing they can do will ever break the spirit of Afrikaans people. Each and every time we'll adapt and we'll survive. We will keep on surviving just to annoy the hell out of people like Ngwe23. We're tough sons of bitches, we survived Africa when out numbered by 1 million to 1. The numbers are no where near that now so we'll still be ok.

 

[konfab]

What was the previous syllabus that challenged the mind?

Look at the difference between standard grade maths and maths literacy for example.

Maths lit will guarantee that anyone who does it will struggle if they want to do any further work. Std grade at least leaves it as a possibility.

 

[ngwe23]

Enough changes has already taken place. it's been 25 ****ing years. Those who were able to survive in those positions obviously deserve to be there. You want that position, work for it. If not, shut your face and move on.

You seem to have this false notion that black do not work for stuff. We do work hard, if not harder than whites. We just do not have the same access to opportunity as you.

 

[DA-LION-619]

Forced integration, attacks on language and religious policies.

What forced integration? I strongly believe that religion shouldn't be a part of any school, customs and beliefs should be tolerated but a morning prayer and such is hogwash.
Also learning a 2nd language is a waste of time, time which can be used for maths or science.

 

[GoneWithTheWindows]

You seem to have this false notion that black do not work for stuff. We do work hard, if not harder than whites. We just do not have the same access to opportunity as you.

Hahahahahaha!!!!

I will rather withhold comment on this.

 

[Vrotappel]

The EFFSC is protesting about causes for which they can get popular support, but they are actually using the students and workers as pawns because their true motives are simply the disruption of society, starting with the tertiary education system (which is a soft target) to gain political power for themselves. UP took the wind out of the EFFSC's sails with their announcement yesterday morning that Afrikaans lectures will be done away with hence why they EFFSC have now had to come up with a new set of demands as a continuation of their "rolling demands". It is instructive to note that, even after the UP announcement yesterday morning that Afrikaans lectures would be done away with, the EFFSC went ahead and disrupted lectures, several hours before they came up with these new demands. In other words, their thugs did not even have a cause at the time of disrupting lectures yesterday morning; their demand that Afrikaans lectures be done away with had essentially been granted, and they had yet to draft a new list of demands.

Agreed, in one of the 'racism' threads I stated that we must prepare for what is to come.

There is a concerted effort to destabilise SA.

Primary and secondary education is basically destroyed. The next bastion is tertiary.

When they state that they wish to rid SA of symbols of oppression and colonialism one must ask the question what will happen if the only symbols that are left is your white skin. Didn't the supreme hero Mugabe himself stated that he does not want to see any white faces?

 

[Pitbull]

You seem to have this false notion that black do not work for stuff. We do work hard, if not harder than whites. We just do not have the same access to opportunity as you.

No you want me to think that. I have very successful black people working here. Highly educated and I report to them on all levels. Highly intelligent people who I respect wholeheartedly. The difference between them and you? They knew what they wanted and worked EXTREMELY hard for it through the harshest of times. Unlike you guys today who just want want want. "O but it's the white people's fault". Strange that they don't think so I wonder why?

 

[Solitude]

Imagine trying to cover each module in a language most used in an area, in UP that is going to be Afrikaans, at UKZN that will be Zulu.
Trying to get lecturers that are specialized in a particular field is hard enough as it is.

It will certainly help in job creation. Both education and unemployment are big problems in South Africa. This will help with both.

Taking Afrikaans away from a university will only help people feel more equal. My idea does that too.

 

[DA-LION-619]

Look at the difference between standard grade maths and maths literacy for example.

Maths lit will guarantee that anyone who does it will struggle if they want to do any further work. Std grade at least leaves it as a possibility.

What has that got to do with former model C schools?

 

[supersunbird]

How has this erosion of white advantage manifested to the significant detriment of whites, if I may ask?

Not in wealth, as white wealth grew exponentially post apartheid. Not in unemployment, as it's remained pretty stable post apartheid. Not in access to education, as whites still have the highest levels of access. Not in income, as whites still earn roughly 6 times per family than blacks etc.

Multi-generational households:

http://www.fin24.com/Finweek/Featured/the-rise-of-multi-generational-households-20160210

In 2014, 35.5% of the country’s black population lived in extended family households, a figure that has declined slightly from 36.2% in 2004.

The reverse is true for the country’s white population where extended family living has doubled from 3.69% to 7.9% in the last decade.

Indicator of more economic pressure on whites. Not that it's a bad thing.

How many whites have left? Someone got the stats on the white population 1994 and recent?

 

[ToxicBunny]

You seem to have this false notion that black do not work for stuff. We do work hard, if not harder than whites. We just do not have the same access to opportunity as you.

I will focus on this one for now..

The vast majority of black people work hard, there is no doubt about it, harder than white people is debatable... What type of work specifically? The lack of education for a vast swathe of them is the limiting factor of course.

BUT there is a vocal minority that don't want to work, they want everything given to them and then don't understand when other people look at the and go "Fsck off", and then burn, destroy, rampage seems to happen.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Excuse, excuse, excuse. Every time the same story. We all acknowledge that Apartheid was wrong. We all want to move on. But tell me, why can't it be done peacefully. Why burn and destroy? I cannot understand it. You can blame black people acting the way they are. Are you not in charge of the way you act?

They've been peacefully 'engaging' on the issue for 7 years already... No progress...

Neither is the costs of sports fields and computer labs or whatever, so lets make the schools all like townships schools, cause they are cheap to run and maintain, its all about the money after all. To carry my analogy forward.

I'm not talking about what is really happening at schools. An analogy.

Not following you...

What I would like to know is why must there be taken away? Why destroy instead of build?

Take languages away instead of offering the languages that are most used in the area of the university. Wouldn't it be ideal to cover more languages in universities? The biggest problem would be money especially in our economy. But I can't help but get the impression that the state of our economy is because of the ANC's mismanagement and poor governance.

I just see people wanting to break things down. Make things worse, not better.

Northern Sotho is the most spoken language in Tshwane. So how much resources should be used to 'elevate' it? And where will those resources come from? And what about everyone who wants their language elevated to the same position?

Christ, way to not see the point.

And why does the erosion of advantage have to be a detriment at all? Why can we not still progress? Black people as a group progress faster but it does not have to be a the expense of the white population.

And no, I do not think black people are worse off in every measurable metric, because they fscking well AREN'T...

You seemed to have missed the point. They haven't progressed at the expense of the white population.

Which metric are they better off than whites?

 

[Pavan]

Pitbull, unfortunately SA has changed. The current government hasn't managed to effectively guide us through the transition from apartheid to democracy. The socio economic circumstances of the majority of our population has not changed either - and apartheid seems to take more of the blame than our abysmal government. So what happens when the majority of a nation, who happen to be the previously oppressed, aren't able to escape the vicious cycle of poverty? They react, they fight back and they voice their opinions... But not everyone is a leader, and those that aren't, follow our leaders. And our corrupt, greedy and unforgiving leaders incite more hate by accepting no accountability for out nation's shortcomings and pass the buck - it's much easier to blame the past than to stand up and admit your mistakes.


In short, it will take generations to undo the injustices and damage caused by apartheid. But we've made no progress and I don't think we ever will. The majority are trapped into voting for the current ruling party as they're still largely uneducated due to circumstances and are led by corrupt scumbags. It's not the common people who are to blame...

 

[ToxicBunny]

You seemed to have missed the point. They haven't progressed at the expense of the white population.

Which metric are they better off than whites?

No, again you are missing the point...

Why does THEIR progression have to be at the expense of the white population.

And every single stat that I've seen for the last while shows that the general population is progressing considerably faster than the general white population.

Larger black middle class than white
Blacks have more purchasing power than whites
Blacks own more land than whites.

Some metrics are different of course... but they are changing.

 

[Pitbull]

Pitbull, unfortunately SA has changed. The current government hasn't managed to effectively guide us through the transition from apartheid to democracy. The socio economic circumstances of the majority of our population has not changed either - and apartheid seems to take more of the blame than our abysmal government. So what happens when the majority of a nation, who happen to be the previously oppressed, aren't able to escape the vicious cycle of poverty? They react, they fight back and they voice their opinions... But not everyone is a leader, and those that aren't, follow our leaders. And our corrupt, greedy and unforgiving leaders incite more hate by accepting no accountability for out nation's shortcomings and pass the buck - it's much easier to blame the past than to stand up and admit your mistakes.


In short, it will take generations to undo the injustices and damage caused by apartheid. But we've made no progress and I don't think we ever will. The majority are trapped into voting for the current ruling party as they're still largely uneducated due to circumstances and are led by corrupt scumbags. It's not the common people who are to blame...

And I agree with you 100%

The problem here is that it's so obvious the top ANC people are sitting laughing and pointing fingers at the uneducated masses. They are doing this so they can hang onto power and the people are not realising it. No one can oppress a black man, like a black man. That much is clear. How the majority can be so oblivious to this is beyond comprehension. Are they being this oblivious on purpose?

 

[Nicodeamus]

Simply because blacks are at the bottom end scale in every measurable metric. Employment, health, income etc. There is a racial imbalance in our country. Do you dispute that?

It is because black leaders have created a nation of self-victimizing people. The difference with the white in SA is that if you hit them with one policy they find ways to be successful despite it. It wont get us down, you dont know the meaning of vasbyt yet.

The big irony is that many of the black kids protesting there today are some of the most privileged in the country, more so than the whites who are standing up for their rights.

 

[supersunbird]

What has that got to do with former model C schools?

About as much as you comprehending the concept in my first post about schools, which was just an analogy.

 

[Pitbull]

It is because black leaders have created a nation of self-victimizing people. The difference with the white in SA is that if you hit them with one policy they find ways to be successful despite it. It wont get us down, you dont know the meaning of vasbyt yet.

Agreed. And the funniest thing...

Those who wanted to leave left. You still have the odd ball here and there. The rest of us are here to stay, so make peace with it. We're here for the long haul and either you accept it and get on with your lives or keep pushing till the minority pushes back. I can promise you, it will not be pretty or easy for both sides but at least there will be a result in the end, win or lose.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

It's called adapting.

Whites have been retrenched to make place for BEE and AA. They go out, dirty their hands and start their own thing as they need to feed their families. They don't depend on government charity to survive. This again is not what was expected so the white people are not suffering enough. We need to find another way to make them pay.

Nothing they can do will ever break the spirit of Afrikaans people. Each and every time we'll adapt and we'll survive. We will keep on surviving just to annoy the hell out of people like Ngwe23. We're tough sons of bitches, we survived Africa when out numbered by 1 million to 1. The numbers are no where near that now so we'll still be ok.

Apparently they can't adapt to not having their language retain a position of privilege at a public institution, rather than occupying the same level as the other indigenous languages...

No, again you are missing the point...

Why does THEIR progression have to be at the expense of the white population.

And every single stat that I've seen for the last while shows that the general population is progressing considerably faster than the general white population.

Larger black middle class than white
Blacks have more purchasing power than whites
Blacks own more land than whites.

Some metrics are different of course... but they are changing.

It isn't, so why are you saying it is? If it doesn't have to be, and it isn't, what's the issue?

And of course they'll progress faster, they're coming off a much lower base...

Multi-generational households:

http://www.fin24.com/Finweek/Featured/the-rise-of-multi-generational-households-20160210



Indicator of more economic pressure on whites. Not that it's a bad thing.

How many whites have left? Someone got the stats on the white population 1994 and recent?

And how much of that is due the advancement of blacks (who are coming off a much lower base), and how much is due to a changing economic climate generally?

 

[DA-LION-619]

About as much as you comprehending the concept in my first post about schools, which was just an analogy.

Well some people believe things were taken away, I'm trying to find out what exactly...