UP closes campus after student clashes

Nicodeamus said:
are the protestors Afrikaans? My analogy was a failure, but your response makes even less sense. I dont need to be French to criticize France. However if I protest then I can consider a free flight back to SA.
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The students are South Africans protesting about something at a South African university.

You're a South African at a French university...

The analogy would work if the protesters were all Congolese students complaining about the university not offering French as a language of tuition.
 
Nicodeamus said:
That is not true, Tuks had amended their language policy numerous of times and it is renewed every few years. That is another thing about these protesters, they simply do not argue with facts.
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How has it been amended to actually address this issue? Considering the most recent proposed change still hasn't been ratified by the Senate.
 
Nicodeamus said:
In fairness I am studying in France at the moment (not to mention that my classes are in French). Yet I do not feel oppressed when I do not understand the terminology, I wonder what the French will do if I start burning tyres and protesting asking for all my lectures in English.
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But I am pretty sure they would not take kindly to being taught in Afrikaans.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Okay, so what do you make of these claims that whites are being oppressed or persecuted?
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In terms of these student protests, in many ways they are... but that is a racist agenda that is being "covered" by other issuse..

In general whites are specifically persecuted or oppressed barring things like BEE etc but when implemented correctly they are perfectly understandable limits in my opinion. The incorrect implementation does disadvantage whites to a degree but I don't know if I would specifically call it oppression or persecution.
 
konfab said:
Firstly look at a Standard grade paper vs a Maths lit paper:
http://www.mpumalanga.gov.za/education/past_matrci_papers/grade12_2005/question_papers/maths/MATHEMATICS%20SG%20P1.pdf

http://www.mpumalanga.gov.za/education/past_matrci_papers/grade12_2005/question_papers/maths/MATHEMATICS%20SG%20P2.pdf

I see a little of bit of calculus, some questions that don't need a calculator and a few nice questions on functions.

Maths lit...
http://www.education.gov.za/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=tGaVHrRPzY0%3D&tabid=599&mid=1802



I rest my case.

The South African government took away skills needed for critical thinking and analysis from the people who need it the most. That is more damaging than any amount of land "appropriated" or any amount of jobs "reserved".
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Standard grade maths wasn't exclusive to former model C schools.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
How has it been amended to actually address this issue? Considering the most recent proposed change still hasn't been ratified by the Senate.
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Afrikaans only courses from a few years ago were changed to English only and Afrikaans only if the numbers justify it. The Engineering department with the exception of Chemical engineering I believe no longer offers an Afrikaans only degree. In fact this is the case across all faculties. There are also a lot of degrees where it is impossible to even do 1 subject in Afrikaans. The fact is that some classes are in Afrikaans and they are running parallel and are given in most cases by the same lecture. I do not see what these guys are protesting for other than pure hatred. This is the EFF after all.

Remember that the senate sits every year. I was involved in student politics in 2011 and this issue was discussed by more than one internal university body.
 
ngwe23 said:
But I am pretty sure they would not take kindly to being taught in Afrikaans.
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Actually my one lecturer was Belgium and he was all to happy that I spoke Afrikaans to him when I asked questions. The French show remarkable tolerance for languages, because we share the same linguistic pride (so much for it not being an international language!)
 
DA-LION-619 said:
Standard grade maths wasn't exclusive to former model C schools.
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Correct it wasn't.

The issue is that the schools that didn't have the resources to teach such a "difficult" syllabus (the black ones) simply failed.

Instead of addressing this like a rational government would and fix the situation at these schools, they simply dropped the standard.
 
Nicodeamus said:
Actually my one lecturer was Belgium and he was all to happy that I spoke Afrikaans to him when I asked questions. The French show remarkable tolerance for languages, because we share the same linguistic pride (so much for it not being an international language!)
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All languages apart from English...

You will know as you're there but if the can hear your a tourist not of English origin they will assist you in English. Speak English in an English accent... Forget it. They have more hatred for the English than black have for the white here in SA :D
 
Nicodeamus said:
Actually my one lecturer was Belgium and he was all to happy that I spoke Afrikaans to him when I asked questions. The French show remarkable tolerance for languages, because we share the same linguistic pride.
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I also wouldn't mind if you speak Afrikaans to me :) but I would mind if you want to tutor me in Afrikaans. I am sure the French would not like to be tutored in a Afrikaans as well.
 
Pitbull said:
All languages apart from English...

You will know as you're there but if the can hear your a tourist not of English origin they will assist you in English. Speak English in an English accent... Forget it. They have more hatred for the English than black have for the white here in SA :D
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We joke about that quite a lot, normally the conversation starts in French then when the vocab becomes a bit difficult for me I switch to English then they remind me that we should rather continue the conversation in Germany as this is not England :D In fairness they dont have a huge issue with English if you try speaking a bit of French (I am getting quite fluent by the end of the year I wont need to switch).
 
OrbitalDawn said:
I am. Afrikaans, too.

From what I can figure out the quote was originally about the howls of outrage from Evangelical Christians in the US after same-sex marriage got legalised. They started whining about how Christians are being oppressed, while in reality their brand of Christianity just wasn't afforded the societal privilege they're used to etc.

But I find it applies to basically any situation where you've got historically privileged groups who are slowly losing that privilege. They're so used to the status quo that it elicits this persecution complex when things change.
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I think you are pretty well rounded and intelligent. You get this. Most don't.
 
Nicodeamus said:
Actually my one lecturer was Belgium and he was all to happy that I spoke Afrikaans to him when I asked questions. The French show remarkable tolerance for languages, because we share the same linguistic pride (so much for it not being an international language!)
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Yes, on my first visit to Brussels I walked into a small shop and spoke to the owner in Afrikaans. He responded in Flemish, and we could understand each other perfectly, no issues.

The problems are more in the differences, eg the Afrikaans word "simpatie" has the meaning of the English "sympathy", whereas the Flemish word has the meaning of the French version. So in Flemish you could say that you have sympathy with someone's wedding (ie feeling happy with them), but you cannot say that in Afrikaans or English.
 
Pitbull said:
Like you did with saying them being taught in Afrikaans?

What does that make you then?
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I was only responding to an obviously flawed analogy as way to exposed how stupid his logic was.
 
konfab said:
Correct it wasn't.

The issue is that the schools that didn't have the resources to teach such a "difficult" syllabus (the black ones) simply failed.

Instead of addressing this like a rational government would and fix the situation at these schools, they simply dropped the standard.
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Wasn't Maths lit introduced as part of the OBE curriculum?
 
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