US Election 2020 - Pt 2

[buka001]

They are hardly relevant in society anymore. What was the numbers? Something between 10-30k out of 330m? They go around waving some torches, feel good about themselves and then go home.

The FBI disagrees with you.

 

[Kieppie]

And you should definitely keep arguing that it's morally justifiable to shoot someone dead because of who they know.

Again you didn't read through some of the evidence that gives more than enough probable cause that she is in fact involved.

 

[AlmightyBender]

I mean I've met Ferdi Barnard and Gary Beuthin, so does that mean I shoud put a sign on my door saying I know dodgy folk so it's okay to break and enter to shoot me?

No that isn't necessary for you. You also need to be black to meet the standard of livestock. They know it, we know it, they know we know it but we must all play silly games.

 

[greg0205]

Again you didn't read through some of the evidence that gives more than enough probable cause that she is in fact involved.

Was... was this evidence presented in a court of law where the due process of being tried for a crime plays out?

 

[konfab]

Do you think it's fair that some people can't afford bail? Is bail only for rich people? Kinda defeats the purpose of bail if people can't afford it - if criminals are so dangerous then the judge shouldn't have granted it to them in the first place...

Then there is a problem with the bail amount.

If you look what it is there for:

In some countries, especially the United States, bail usually implies a bail bond, a deposit of money or some form of property to the court by the suspect in return for the release from pre-trial detention. If the suspect does not return to court, the bail is forfeited and the suspect may possibly be brought up on charges of the crime of failure to appear. If the suspect returns to make all their required appearances, bail is returned after the trial is concluded.

And if you do rock up to court, does the money go back to the person who the bail is charged against or does it go back to the fund?

If it is the former, Harris, Bloomberg and friends will be giving money to convicted criminals if they are convicted.

 

[konfab]

Was... was this evidence presented in a court of law where the due process of being tried for a crime plays out?

LOL.

As if due process now matters to progressives. None of that applied with the Messiah's title IX regulations.

 

[rietrot]

Then there is a problem with the bail amount.

If you look what it is there for:


And if you do rock up to court, does the money go back to the person who the bail is charged against or does it go back to the fund?

If it is the former, Harris, Bloomberg and friends will be giving money to convicted criminals if they are convicted.

The US bail system with bail bonds and nonsense is notoriously bad.

 

[Cray]

If you're saying she didn't know they are criminals you're undermining her intelligence. Go to the Cape Flats for example. Almost everyone knows who the drug/gang members are

Oh, so because it happens in a country 10 000kms away that must be the case everywhere....

But since we are doing anecdotes, I play a fair amount of sport, and one guy I sometimes socialized at the bar with and played against, decent enough guy, always seemed cool to be around. After about two years it came out that he had been implicated in embezzlement and was later found guilty of it. So by your rationale, anyone who associated with that person "should" have known, if I was shot by police while they where going after this person then I would not be a victim? Is that seriously your argument?

No I am not exonerating them. I am pointing out the hypocrisy of people immediately saying she is a victim. Police for all their faults don't just randomly target people.

Random targeting is different to killing people by association. They killed her because her boyfriend dared to defend himself against armed people breaking into their home, sure accidents happen in gunfights but someone getting shot 5 times is the ultimate in summary execution by association.

Unless she is found guilty of murder then she is a victim, if you get summarily executed by police while unarmed and in your home then you are a victim, to describe her as anything less is just vile.

 

[Kieppie]

Do you think it's fair that some people can't afford bail? Is bail only for rich people? Kinda defeats the purpose of bail if people can't afford it - if criminals are so dangerous then the judge shouldn't have granted it to them in the first place...

Firstly I wouldn't use Kamala as an example as she basically endorsed slave labour.

Bail is just to ensure you don't disappear and it is typically a % base. There are actual issues with jailing someone as in losing your job if your detained for long periods.

I never said the system was perfect. If you can think of a better solution I am sure they would love to hear it.

None of that matters.

What matters is the conduct of the police, and in this case, what they did was wrong.

If you look at what is being done to remedy this, do you really disagree with this?

https://www.paul.senate.gov/news/sen-rand-paul-introduces-justice-breonna-taylor-act

I know about Rand Paul's bill and I also heard what swot teams that raid gangs and drug-dealers said about this.

Going to make another of my own analogies so hopefully Buka doesn't drag me for it. Lets assume you raid a terrorist group. Would you tell them you're surrounded please come out with your hands up? Would you breach and overwhelm them before they could react and therefore minimise casualties on both sides?

Until people have been in these situations they can't really have an opinion about it. I am more than willing to listen to police that have been in these situations coming up with alternative procedures.

 

[greg0205]

LOL.

As if due process now matters to progressives. None of that applied with the Messiah's title IX regulations.

I too confuse government legislation with criminal law.

 

[Cray]

If it is the former, Harris, Bloomberg and friends will be giving money to convicted criminals if they are convicted.

As far as I know, the bail amount goes back to however posted it, the accused never sees the money...

https://blog.suretysolutions.com/suretynews/what-is-a-bail-bond

• If a defendant does appear for court: Upon conclusion of the court case, the Bail Bond is dissolved and the collateral is returned to the person who posted it. The Bail bondsman keeps the 10% cash fee as profit.

 

[Cray]

Firstly I wouldn't use Kamala as an example as she basically endorsed slave labour.

Bail is just to ensure you don't disappear and it is typically a % base. There are actual issues with jailing someone as in losing your job if your detained for long periods.

I never said the system was perfect. If you can think of a better solution I am sure they would love to hear it.

So while looking around I found this...

https://ambailcoalition.org/breakin...d that “bail,because someone cannot afford it.

The Court held that “bail is not purely defined by what the detainee can afford,” which is a win against any legal theory that says affordability can be the determining factor. Thus, bail is not ever per se unconstitutional because someone cannot afford it.

This seems baffling to me, if the point is for it not to be affordable why grant bail at all?

 

[cerebus]

So a lot....?

Just so many, so so many. It's what they do instead of debating the facts:

US Election 2020 - Pt 2

Just because you don't understand words does not mean they are nonsensical. Whip smart: very quick-witted and intelligent. Telegenic: having an appearance or manner that is appealing on television. There, I saved you the Google. You are welcome. It is indeed nonsensical to apply those...

mybroadband.co.za

US Election 2020 - Pt 2

OMG HE'S A NAZI!

mybroadband.co.za

US Election 2020 - Pt 2

Just because you don't understand words does not mean they are nonsensical. Whip smart: very quick-witted and intelligent. Telegenic: having an appearance or manner that is appealing on television. There, I saved you the Google. You are welcome. It is indeed nonsensical to apply those...

mybroadband.co.za

US Election 2020 - Pt 2

You're not factoring in people that were exposed to the virus and not catching it. Using your analogy that is like only calculating the mortality rate of soldiers in WW2 that were shot as opposed to the whole population that went. We can go into blocking factors like age demographics, but...

mybroadband.co.za

US Election 2020 - Pt 2

Source? It's an old Pew Research article. So the drift will be worse today. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2017/10/05/1-partisan-divides-over-political-values-widen/ Ironically it was featured in the documentary I just watched "The.Social.Dilemma". They touched on many the issues we...

mybroadband.co.za

US Election 2020 - Pt 2

Leftist dumbass thought he was going to get praised for his extreme childishness. Gets owned in the comments. Awful human being. Leftist tolerance is a myth. https://medium.com/@guinanleo/today-i-gave-my-dad-a-choice-trump-or-his-grandkids-and-his-son-b2f971ed39f9

mybroadband.co.za

Isn't your counter argument a bit self destructive?

One 5 yo video of 2 Nazi nutcases vs. hundreds of videos of unhinged Leftists published daily for months now?

 

[Kieppie]

Oh, so because it happens in a country 10 000kms away that must be the case everywhere....

You clearly don't understand what it is like in those neighbourhoods. It is not a geographical phenomena it's world wide.

But since we are doing anecdotes, I play a fair amount of sport, and one guy I sometimes socialized at the bar with and played against, decent enough guy, always seemed cool to be around. After about two years it came out that he had been implicated in embezzlement and was later found guilty of it. So by your rationale, anyone who associated with that person "should" have known, if I was shot by police while going after this person then I would not be a victim? Is that seriously your argument?

Not at all what I said. If you had financial dealings with him and the police opened an investigation into your dealings with him. YOU would be the subject of the investigation not the victim.

Random targeting is different to killing people by association. They killed her because her boyfriend dared to defend himself against armed people breaking into their home, sure accidents happen in gunfights but someone getting shot 5 times is the ultimate in summary execution by association.

Again she is listed on the warrant so not "by association". Maybe if they wore police uniforms it might have turned out differently. We won't know. How many times she was hit is irrelevant as one could have been enough. It is random if they blind fired. This is one point where the police procedure/training could be to blame

Unless she is found guilty of murder then she is a victim, if you get summarily executed by police while unarmed and in your home then you are a victim, to describe her as anything less is just vile.

She wasn't executed stop using loaded words. We don't know the layout of the house, the position of the police relative to the boyfriend who opened fire etc etc. Again lets wait for the court case.

 

[Kieppie]

This seems baffling to me, if the point is for it not to be affordable why grant bail at all?

I read that as well.

They had some reason for it, but honestly the judgments are not very consistent. Might be a difference between states? *Shrugs*

PS i actually deleted the original reply on bail since I couldn't find the source I was looking for, but the page cached it when I refreshed and included it in the other post.

 

[Kieppie]

Was... was this evidence presented in a court of law where the due process of being tried for a crime plays out?

Would you actually care what a court says or just follow your own narrative? You seem perfectly fine judging people before seeing actual evidence.

 

[greg0205]

Would you actually care what a court says or just follow your own narrative? You seem perfectly fine judging people before seeing actual evidence.

I mean I'm here saying where was the due process.

You're here fangirling this guy:

 

[Cray]

She wasn't executed stop using loaded words. We don't know the layout of the house, the position of the police relative to the boyfriend who opened fire etc etc. Again lets wait for the court case.

Again, assuming it even gets that far...

 

[Cray]

She wasn't executed stop using loaded words.

She was killed, and according to you she is not a victim, i.e. She deserved what she got due to her associating with people who may or may not have even been guilty of an offence - "execution" seems to fit quite well.

Let's clarify your view - if anyone guilty of any crime is shot dead by the police, regardless of circumstance, would you consider the victim? How serious does a crime have to be before you consider that them being killed doesn't make them a victim?

 

[Kieppie]

Again, assuming it even gets that far...

If they capitulate to the mob I'll be more worried. If the DA sees the case evidence he can decide whether to proceed or not.

Just hoping it doesn't turn out like that self-defense case involving the bar owner.