US Election 2020 - Pt 2

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OrbitalDawn said:
Good piece here.

www.nytimes.com

Opinion | Can We Please Pick the President by Popular Vote Now? (Published 2020)

The Supreme Court’s unanimous decision in the “faithless electors” case is another reminder of how antiquated and undemocratic the Electoral College is.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
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These are the same people who don't know how important State's rights are too.
The US is not a country like Spain, or France. It's an economic region like the EU. How do people not realise that...?
They advocate for popular vote because it benefits them while ignoring all of the implications of eroding State power.
 
greg0205 said:
*Polls*

Yes they did, and you know what, she got 2 868 686 *more*... I'mma say that again... more... votes than Donnie did.

What polls didn't account for were the distribution of just over 78k of those votes in three states and so... Electoral College win for ol' Don.
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OrbitalDawn said:
The polls were as accurate and useful as they generally are. The only people who say they got it "very wrong" are people who don't know how polls work, what they're useful for, or think they're indicative of something no one who understands them thinks they're indicative of.

They're also not a forecast, they're a snapshot of popular vote counts at a given time. Also not the EC distribution.

View attachment 870731
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even with all the info he still ended up president
 
Vorastra said:
These are the same people who don't know how important State's rights are too.
The US is not a country like Spain, or France. It's an economic region like the EU. How do people not realise that...?
They advocate for popular vote because it benefits them while ignoring all of the implications of eroding State power.
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If it's like the EU then why bother with a national vote at all? The EU doesn't. How would a popular vote for national leadership erode state power?
 
C4Cat said:
If it's like the EU then why bother with a national vote at all? The EU doesn't. How would a popular vote for national leadership erode state power?
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Exactly like the EU is now having problems between rich and poor countries.
 
C4Cat said:
If it's like the EU then why bother with a national vote at all? The EU doesn't.
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Are you...joking? The EU does vote. I'd know, since I vote in them. They literally vote with a similar-ish system to the US to the point where Nigel Farage himself was moaning on and on about the EU leadership not being directly voted for...
Each EU country votes in EU parliamentary elections. Those elected officials go to parliament where they vote for the parliament president. Those same elected people then vote for the European Commission president.
The governments of each EU country then vote for the European Council president.
Here's a nice diagram.

A vote in Portugal is worth more than a vote in Poland, for example. Which is literally the issue people complain about in the US...

How would a popular vote for national leadership erode state power?
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Jesus...
It literally takes power away from the State to choose the president.
The erosion of State power.
 
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TysonRoux said:
Arizona Republican: "I will vote for Biden...getting rid of Trump is that important"

Ryan is an Arizona "values voter" who is a Republican city councilman. He can't stand the Trump Administration's disregard for life. He doesn't agree with a lot of Democratic policies but is voting for Joe Biden because he thinks it's that important to remove Trump from office.
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Trump Administration's disregard for life?

But the Trump Administration is more Pro Life than the Dems?
 
Vorastra said:
Each EU country votes in EU parliamentary elections. Those elected officials go to parliament where they vote for the parliament president. Those same elected people then vote for the European Commission president.
The governments of each EU country then vote for the European Council president.
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Exactly, the population doesn't vote for the EU president, do they? Nobody goes on election day and casts a ballot for the European Council president. If the same was done in the US then people would vote for the leaders of their State and not for the president at all. How can you see those as the same?
 
access said:
and then?

even with all the info, his opponents pre-victory hubris, he still ended up president.

nothing you post in reply can change that
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Full circle. Back to 'he's still president, libs!'

Remember that one time I said post something worth discussing?

Yeah?

...you've learned nothing about national and state polling or margins of error, and here we are, back to the dunking and gotchas.
 
greg0205 said:
Full circle. Back to 'he's still president, libs!'

Remember that one time I said post something worth discussing?

Yeah?

...you've learned nothing about national and state polling or margins of error, and here we are, back to the dunking and gotchas.
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remember when i said in return when things that do not align with you, you do not find them worth discussing.

yeah?

i already know about mentioned polling or margins of error and related info. and your perceived dunking and gotchas. sheesh guy do you think every person questioning something is a gotcha or a dunking.. lol weird life.

ive learned not to count my chickens before they hatch with these lot of people.
 
C4Cat said:
If the same was done in the US then people would vote for the leaders of their State and not for the president at all. How can you see those as the same?
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In the US a State holds an election which tells its representatives how to vote for president.
In the EU a Member State holds an election which tells its representatives how to vote for the president.

In the US each State has its own laws and taxes, but also have overarching laws that come from that elected US government.
In the EU each Member State has its own laws and taxes, but also have overarching laws that come from the elected EU governments.

The outcome is the same. Popular vote doesn't elect the US president. Popular vote doesn't elect the EU presidents.

I can't make it any easier.
 
access said:
remember when i said in return when things that do not align with you, you do not find them worth discussing.

yeah?

i already know about mentioned polling or margins of error and related info. and your perceived dunking and gotchas. sheesh guy do you think every person questioning something is a gotcha or a dunking.. lol weird life.

ive learned not to count my chickens before they hatch with these lot of people.
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The whole point of the original debate is that the claim is made that polls don't matter because Hillary was ahead in the polls but she lost the vote. But the rebuttal is that the polls were still accurate in predicting the vote results. The tiny margins by which Trump was able to win his victory were down to the extraordinary amount of skewing caused by the electoral college system.

The polls were also accurate in 2018 - in fact they undercounted the strength of the blue vote. You can try to discard the polling as a predictive measure for 2020 but the chances are that they will be accurate in November as well. If Trump wins it will by the slimmest possible margins. I am aware that it is possible to win an electoral college victory by as little as 23% of the popular vote, which is insanely undemocratic, but it is extremely extremely unlikely.
 
Vorastra said:
In the US a State holds an election which tells its representatives how to vote for president.
In the EU a Member State holds an election which tells its representatives how to vote for the president.

In the US each State has its own laws and taxes, but also have overarching laws that come from that elected US government.
In the EU each Member State has its own laws and taxes, but also have overarching laws that come from the elected EU governments.

The outcome is the same. Popular vote doesn't elect the US president. Popular vote doesn't elect the EU presidents.

I can't make it any easier.
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The founding fathers were racist slave owners and the constitution is racist according to the Dems / BLM / Antifa. So that will be changing.

Everthing they built will have to be destroyed for equality reasons. Then they can start again with everyone on a level playfield.
 
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