US politics general thread

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noxibox

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and from Mein Kampf -
"shaping them according to völkisch principles." is very much a right wing thing.

Lets play a game. Who do you think would be more likely to vote for a politician punting these points? A Trump supporter or a Bernie Sanders supporter?
Working class Trump supporters would vote for them. Middle class probably too. The wealthy might be opposed, but if they expected to continue to have access to power they'd probably vote for it too.

Thatcher shouldn't be that high up.
I'm surprised she's so low down.
 

The_Assimilator

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Recap of the last two pages of this thread: MyBB GOP apologists have no argument against the fact that the GOP has literal Nazis running on their ticket, so they attempt to move the goalposts by once again trying to claim that Nazism is socialism thus the left is just as bad.

Seriously, you braindead cretins, you've tried this idiocy god knows how many times... nobody capable of logical thought bought it the first time, nobody capable of logical thought is buying it this 20 millionth time, nobody capable of logical thought is ever going to buy it. So stop wasting our time with your inability to formulate the most basic of rational arguments, and maybe consider learning a new tune to add to your worn-out playbook.
 

rietrot

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Recap of the last two pages of this thread: MyBB GOP apologists have no argument against the fact that the GOP has literal Nazis running on their ticket, so they attempt to move the goalposts by once again trying to claim that Nazism is socialism thus the left is just as bad.
You're reading to much into it. Litteral Nazis are 1940s Germans, I doubt there's any of them on the GOP ticket, maybe some Neo-nazis.
Pointing out what Nazism is, isn't an excuse for the above. It's just facts. There is no reason for anyone to even be an a "apologists" for anything.
Democracy means everyone gets to vote and run for office, even those racist people you don't like.
 

konfab

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Your game is stupid, why dont you choose other parts of fascism like rampant nationalism and protectionist policies like tariffs and then ask that same question. You muppets think that because fascism and socialism may share common policies that they are the same. You might as well declare lions and rhinos as one because they both have legs and a face.


Protectionism like minimum wage, guaranteed income, nationalised industries, labour unions, exchange control is halal because it is socialist. But tariffs on imported goods is not because RONALD DRUMPF implemented them, even though economically they are exactly the same thing.
 

rietrot

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Protectionism like minimum wage, guaranteed income, nationalised industries, labour unions, exchange control is halal because it is socialist. But tariffs on imported goods is not because RONALD DRUMPF implemented them, even though economically they are exactly the same thing.
Tariffs are anti-globalist thats the problem.
 

cerebus

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Tariffs are anti-globalist thats the problem.

No, the problem is that tariffs are a bad idea that never works. They had to give out $12 billion in aid for farmers whose businesses were doing just fine before the tariffs kicked in. Are they just going to keep handing out relief packages for industries that are hurting because of a problem that they created, which never needed to exist in the first place?
 

konfab

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No, the problem is that tariffs are a bad idea that never works. They had to give out $12 billion in aid for farmers whose businesses were doing just fine before the tariffs kicked in. Are they just going to keep handing out relief packages for industries that are hurting because of a problem that they created, which never needed to exist in the first place?
Do you have a problem with the tariffs on goods and farm subsidies that the EU implements?

Oh wait those are fine because they are not the policies of RONALD DRUMPF.

If you want to be logically consistent, if you have a problem with tariffs on imported goods, then you should also have a problem with any sort of interference of government on the economy. So public healthcare, public schools, welfare, fiat currency, minimum wage etc.
 

rietrot

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No, the problem is that tariffs are a bad idea that never works. They had to give out $12 billion in aid for farmers whose businesses were doing just fine before the tariffs kicked in. Are they just going to keep handing out relief packages for industries that are hurting because of a problem that they created, which never needed to exist in the first place?
Tariffs is just a tax on imports. I have never seen you argue against taxes before.

It works even though it's not ideal. Ideally people would be patriotic and support local business first before they import stuff.
 

cerebus

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Do you have a problem with the tariffs on goods and farm subsidies that the EU implements?

Well, yes of course.

Oh wait those are fine because they are not the policies of RONALD DRUMPF.

They aren't on nearly the same scale as Trump's, and they weren't implemented as part of a ridiculous zero sum trade war.

If you want to be logically consistent, if you have a problem with tariffs on imported goods, then you should also have a problem with any sort of interference of government on the economy. So public healthcare, public schools, welfare, fiat currency, minimum wage etc.

Nonsense.
 

konfab

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Nonsense.
How so? They are doing EXACTLY the same thing economically. They increase the cost of doing business for everyone because the government cannot have more information about the true price of goods than the market.

Take trade unions in this country for example: do you think they are cognisant of the fact that this country has a ridiculously high unemployment rate when they ask for their ridiculous demands?
Minimum wage is setting the price for labour based on what the government thinks is good for the country. That is no different from an import tariff.

The reality with all of these things as you pointed out, is that a free market trade is not a zero sum game. Coercion via taxation and government control of the economy is the zero sum game as eventually economic reality kicks in.
 

NarrowBandFtw

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So they were fascist, socialist and communist :ROFL:? You do realise that the main tenet of fascism is anti communism (which hitler was) but now you're trying to tell me he was actually communist as well. This is hilarious.
If you bother to read, slow enough to comprehend it seems is what's requried, you would notice I never said Nazis were fascist, socialist and communist. I said they are essentially the same thing if you bother to educate yourself on the core tenets.

And no, a core tenet is not, and can never be, merely to be anti-something. You stand for something. Regardless, you seem to be of the misguided opinion that enemies cannot share philosophical views ... do you really think socialists have never waged war against each other? No two communist countries ever fought? No deluded lefty countries? Please, that's just silly and riddled with holes as far as theories go.

rietrot's on the money though, this is the succinct version for those who can't be made to drink anyway:
Two groups that's extremely authoritarian, two sides of the same coin, fighting for control. Communism vs socialism vs fascism vs crony capitalism. It is all the same thing.

Jesus, Snopes?!? I'm challenged to bring historians with credibility as sources, which I did, and you bring ... Snopes?!? :ROFL:
 

buka001

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If you bother to read, slow enough to comprehend it seems is what's requried, you would notice I never said Nazis were fascist, socialist and communist. I said they are essentially the same thing if you bother to educate yourself on the core tenets.

And no, a core tenet is not, and can never be, merely to be anti-something. You stand for something. Regardless, you seem to be of the misguided opinion that enemies cannot share philosophical views ... do you really think socialists have never waged war against each other? No two communist countries ever fought? No deluded lefty countries? Please, that's just silly and riddled with holes as far as theories go.

rietrot's on the money though, this is the succinct version for those who can't be made to drink anyway:



Jesus, Snopes?!? I'm challenged to bring historians with credibility as sources, which I did, and you bring ... Snopes?!? :ROFL:

Snopes did what you could not. It sourced information from historians on the subject.
 

Unhappy438

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If you bother to read, slow enough to comprehend it seems is what's requried, you would notice I never said Nazis were fascist, socialist and communist. I said they are essentially the same thing if you bother to educate yourself on the core tenets.

I comprehend it just fine, its just hilarious beyond belief. Fascism is fascism, communism is communism, they have glaring differences and don't become one and the same because you dream it.

And no, a core tenet is not, and can never be, merely to be anti-something. You stand for something. Regardless, you seem to be of the misguided opinion that enemies cannot share philosophical views ... do you really think socialists have never waged war against each other? No two communist countries ever fought? No deluded lefty countries? Please, that's just silly and riddled with holes as far as theories go.

Of course you can, being anti communist is standing for something. Did two communist countries say they were fighting each other because the other one was communist? Hitler literally said that about Stalin and Russia.
 

NarrowBandFtw

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I comprehend it just fine, its just hilarious beyond belief. Fascism is fascism, communism is communism, they have glaring differences and don't become one and the same because you dream it.
They have more similarities than differences, you just refuse to see it because your programming forbids it.

Of course you can, being anti communist is standing for something. Did two communist countries say they were fighting each other because the other one was communist? Hitler literally said that about Stalin and Russia.
Again, if you bother to read the sources that have already been posted earlier; Hitler had a bone to pick with the party that rejected him, this evolved into some imaginary "anti-socialism" stance which really was just a tool to get his own populace to do his bidding.

He literally also had an alliance with Stalin and Russia ... so opposed he was :ROFL:
 

Unhappy438

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The Great Depression had spurred increased state ownership in most Western capitalist countries. This also took place in Germany during the last years of the Weimar Republic. But after the Nazis took power, industries were privatized en masse. Several banks, shipyards, railway lines, shipping lines, welfare organizations, and more were privatized.[40] The Nazi government took the stance that enterprises should be in private hands wherever possible. [41] State ownership was to be avoided unless it was absolutely necessary for rearmament or the war effort, and even in those cases “the Reich often insisted on the inclusion in the contract of an option clause according to which the private firm operating the plant was entitled to purchase it.”[42] Companies privatized by the Nazis included the four major commercial banks in Germany, which had all come under public ownership during the prior years: Commerz– und Privatbank , Deutsche Bank und Disconto-Gesellschaft , Golddiskontbank and Dresdner Bank . [43][44] Also privatized were the Deutsche Reichsbahn (German Railways), at the time the largest single public enterprise in the world, the Vereinigte Stahlwerke A.G. (United Steelworks), the second largest joint-stock company in Germany (the largest was IG Farben) and Vereinigte Oberschlesische Hüttenwerke AG , a company controlling all of the metal production in the Upper Silesian coal and steel industry. The government also sold a number of shipbuilding companies, and enhanced private utilities at the expense of municipally owned utilities companies.[45] Additionally, the Nazis privatized some public services which had been previously provided by the government, especially social and labor-related services, and these were mainly taken over by organizations affiliated with the Nazi Party that could be trusted to apply Nazi racial policies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany#Privatization_and_business_ties

So communist of them :ROFL:
 

cerebus

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How so? They are doing EXACTLY the same thing economically. They increase the cost of doing business for everyone because the government cannot have more information about the true price of goods than the market.

Take trade unions in this country for example: do you think they are cognisant of the fact that this country has a ridiculously high unemployment rate when they ask for their ridiculous demands?
Minimum wage is setting the price for labour based on what the government thinks is good for the country. That is no different from an import tariff.

The reality with all of these things as you pointed out, is that a free market trade is not a zero sum game. Coercion via taxation and government control of the economy is the zero sum game as eventually economic reality kicks in.

Ah more equivalences, how fun. Fascism=socialism, trade unions=trade war tariffs, and social media deplatforming=sales discrimination. It's your favourite game.
 
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