US politics general thread

[cerebus]

Right about what?

You haven't made a clear stance yet. There is ZERO problem with getting rid of people in your country illegally. If they have a case of asylum it can be heard and judged. Jumping a fence from Mexico has nothing to do with asylum...

If you'd been following the conversation and hadn't just jumped in and started yelling, you'd know we're talking about Trump's double standard re: due process. The whole debate around border control is @Temujin splitting hairs around whether Trump meant that they should be refused a court hearing if they were detained before they enter the border, which in his mind abnegates their due process rights.

 

[Pitbull]

The whole debate around border control is @Temujin splitting hairs around whether Trump meant that they should be deterred before they enter the border which in his mind abnegates their due process rights.

You read what you just typed right? How does denying someone entry to your country abnegate any rights? They don't have a right to enter the US. Nothing, none, nada. If they do have a case of asylum or refugee status, they can follow the process.

 

[Temujin]

If you'd been following the conversation and hadn't just jumped in and started yelling, you'd know we're talking about Trump's double standard re: due process. The whole debate around border control is @Temujin splitting hairs around whether Trump meant that they should be refused a court hearing if they were detained before they enter the border, which in his mind abnegates their due process rights.

This is news to me... who is detaining before entering? who is not getting due process after being detained?

 

[cerebus]

This is news to me... who is detaining before entering? who is not getting due process after being detained?

You read what you just typed right? How does denying someone entry to your country abnegate any rights? They don't have a right to enter the US. Nothing, none, nada. If they do have a case of asylum or refugee status, they can follow the process.

When Trump argues that they don't need to add more judges to deal with the backlog of immigrant claims, that's exactly what he's saying. The reason there is a backlog is because there are too many cases of people making claims on their rights to immigrate into the US, and Trump is arguing that they shouldn't have the right to make their case in the first place because border control should just turn them back at the border regardless of what claim they might have to enter the country. What on earth do you think he could be saying otherwise?

 

[Temujin]

When Trump argues that they don't need to add more judges to deal with the backlog of immigrant claims, that's exactly what he's saying. The reason there is a backlog is because there are too many cases of people making claims on their rights to immigrate into the US, and Trump is arguing that they shouldn't have the right to make their case in the first place because border control should just turn them back at the border regardless of what claim they might have to enter the country. What on earth do you think he could be saying otherwise?

Again, back in circles... where has he said no due process? In this specific case, where did he say people who want to immigrate must not get due process, and must be turned away at the ports of entry?
Will leave you with this quote... again.

People must simply be stopped at the Border and told they cannot come into the U.S. illegally.

 

[cerebus]

Again, back in circles... where has he said no due process? In this specific case, where did he say people who want to immigrate must not get due process, and must be turned away at the ports of entry?
Will leave you with this quote... again.

Yeah, again in circles... how do you determine that someone is entering illegally if you don't let them make their case in court? That's how the whole backlog happened in the first place. Lots of immigrants applying for refugee or similar legal status, and the system isn't equipped to handle it.

 

[Pitbull]

Yeah, again in circles... how do you determine that someone is entering illegally if you don't let them make their case in court? That's how the whole backlog happened in the first place. Lots of immigrants applying for refugee or similar legal status, and the system isn't equipped to handle it.

You forget that you can come into the country on a legitimate visa without having to enter illegally and claim for asylum once in the US? Tourist visa as an example. You are of the opinion that you need to enter illegally to claim asylum?

You don't even need to enter the country, you can apply at the port of entry. So I'm still trying to see why you think it needs to be done the illegal way...

 

[Temujin]

Yeah, again in circles... how do you determine that someone is entering illegally if you don't let them make their case in court? That's how the whole backlog happened in the first place. Lots of immigrants applying for refugee or similar legal status, and the system isn't equipped to handle it.

Immigrants vs illegal immigrants, again, mixing the two
If you are not entering illegally you would be going through ports of entry, applying to immigrate and going through the process.

 

[cerebus]

You forget that you can come into the country on a legitimate visa without having to enter illegally and claim for asylum once in the US? Tourist visa as an example. You are of the opinion that you need to enter illegally to claim asylum?

You don't even need to enter the country, you can apply at the port of entry. So I'm still trying to see why you think it needs to be done the illegal way...

So refugees fleeing gangs, religious persecution and domestic violence should have just come in on a tourist visa? Are you out of your mind?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ration-courts-and-law/?utm_term=.ced95f6b64f3

The Facts

Rampant violence and gang activity in El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras have prompted hundreds of thousands of children and families to leave their homes and seek refuge in the United States since 2014. U.S. laws provide asylum or refugee status to qualified applicants, but the Trump administration says smugglers and bad actors are exploiting these laws to gain entry.


Trump has called on Congress to narrow the scope of these humanitarian-relief laws to close what he describes as “loopholes,” but now he’s saying the United States should stop having judges evaluate immigration cases altogether. Undocumented immigrants should be turned away immediately, Trump says.

A long-standing framework of federal statutes, regulations and court precedents governs how U.S. officials handle asylum claims. Together, these lay out the “process” that asylum seekers are “due” under U.S. law. As long as these laws are on the books, turning away asylum applicants without court proceedings in many cases would be a violation of their due-process rights under U.S. law, experts say. In addition, the United States has agreed to abide by international compacts that extend the right to seek asylum to qualified immigrants, namely the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the United Nations Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees.

Immigrants vs illegal immigrants, again, mixing the two
If you are not entering illegally you would be going through ports of entry, applying to immigrate and going through the process.

How many people do you think are just showing up at the border hoping to be let into the country with no claim to entry? I would guess that the vast majority are going to attempt to make an asylum or refugee claim. A lot of those will be fraudulent and many will be valid. That's exactly what Trump wants to streamline, by simply invalidating their claims without a hearing.

 

[Pitbull]

So refugees fleeing gangs, religious persecution and domestic violence should have just come in on a tourist visa? Are you out of your mind?

They can apply for asylum or refugee status at the border post. I still don't see a problem? You are trying to justify crossing borders illegally... If you can cross a border illegally, you can surely make it to a border post?

How many people do you think are just showing up at the border hoping to be let into the country with no claim to entry? I would guess that the vast majority are going to attempt to make an asylum or refugee claim. A lot of those will be fraudulent and many will be valid. That's exactly what Trump wants to streamline, by simply invalidating their claims without a hearing.

Again, how does this affect the legal way of applying for asylum and refugee status? You don't need to cross illegally. If you have a valid case for asylum, why jump the border then? There is NO WAY to justify crossing the borders illegally. Those who do so have either had their applications denied before, or know they won't succeed...

 

[Temujin]

So refugees fleeing gangs, religious persecution and domestic violence should have just come in on a tourist visa? Are you out of your mind?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ration-courts-and-law/?utm_term=.ced95f6b64f3





How many people do you think are just showing up at the border hoping to be let into the country with no claim to entry? I would guess that the vast majority are going to attempt to make an asylum or refugee claim. A lot of those will be fraudulent and many will be valid. That's exactly what Trump wants to streamline, by simply invalidating their claims without a hearing.

Again... where has trump said 'no due process for anyone legally entering the country'

 

[Pitbull]

Again... where has trump said 'no due process for anyone legally entering the country'

Even in his own quote (Cerebus) it clearly stats that Trump wants undocumented applicants deported. Trump says nothing about applying the correct way...

 

[Temujin]

Even in his own quote (Cerebus) it clearly stats that Trump wants undocumented applicants deported. Trump says nothing about applying the correct way...

Yeah, I'm giving up now... this is pointless, been pages now of just repeating the same **** over and over... just going in circles

 

[cerebus]

They can apply for asylum or refugee status at the border post. I still don't see a problem? You are trying to justify crossing borders illegally... If you can cross a border illegally, you can surely make it to a border post?

The Trump administration says these immigrants should show up at a port of entry along the U.S.-Mexico border and wait their turn to seek asylum. But these entry points are overcrowded, and U.S. law says immigrants may petition for asylum even if they do not show up at a port of entry.

Trump simply doesn't want them to have the right to make asylum claims, which would necessitate adding more judges to handle them.

Trump says the United States would need “thousands” of judges to get through the 700,000-case backlog in the immigration system. “They came in to see me last week,” Trump said June 25. “They said, ‘We’d like to hire 5,000 more judges’ — 5,000. You ever hear of a thing like that?”

Even in his own quote (Cerebus) it clearly stats that Trump wants undocumented applicants deported. Trump says nothing about applying the correct way...

Undocumented applicants also have due process rights. They can apply for refugee status. That's exactly what Trump is arguing against.

Again... where has trump said 'no due process for anyone legally entering the country'

Lol. Again, you've provided no framework with which to determine the legality of someone entering the country apart from the standard due process of a fair hearing.

 

[Pitbull]

Yeah, I'm giving up now... this is pointless, been pages now of just repeating the same **** over and over... just going in circles

What he refuses to understand is that there is an accessible and legal way to apply for refugee status or asylum. There is ZERO need to cross illegally. All Trump is saying that it's the legal way or no way.

It's not that hard to understand.

 

[Pitbull]

Trump simply doesn't want them to have the right to make asylum claims, which would necessitate adding more judges to handle them.

You are now assuming what Trump thinks?

He never said he doesn't want them to have the right... You are being dishonest. He wants them to do it the LEGAL WAY! However long the legal way or process can or will take.

Undocumented applicants also have due process rights. They can apply for refugee status. That's exactly what Trump is arguing against.

Yes, they can be deported to their country of origin and apply from that side at the border post. Think of it as being put back in the line for trying to jump the queue.

 

[Temujin]

Lol. Again, you've provided no framework with which to determine the legality of someone entering the country apart from the standard due process of a fair hearing.

#5598 #5602 #5628

 

[cerebus]

You are now assuming what Trump thinks?

He never said he doesn't want them to have the right... You are being dishonest. He wants them to do it the LEGAL WAY! However long the legal way or process can or will take.

No, he's saying that they don't need to hire more judges to determine the legality of asylum claims. It's very clear in his own words.

I don’t want judges. I want ICE and border patrol agents.

When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, bring them back from where they came.

It's his words, not mine.

Yes, they can be deported to their country of origin and apply from that side at the border post. Think of it as being put back in the line for trying to jump the queue.

No, they can apply for asylum or refugee status and they can remain in the country while they are being processed.

 

[Pitbull]

No, he's saying that they don't need to hire more judges to determine the legality of asylum claims. It's very clear in his own words.

It's his words, not mine.


Yes, as he wants to get rid of the illegal undocumented people in the USA. I don't see a single problem with that? He has no problem with documented people who went through the process and was awarded asylum/refugee status. I say this once again: There are legal means to get documented and their cases heard. Jumping a fence is illegal and should be treated as criminals and deported. They have are in the country ILLEGALLY!!!!

It's like me saying: I have a party on invite only and I'm only able to house 100 people. There is an application process where I will choose those allowed to attend. According to you, those not on the list can crash the party even if I end up with 150 people and I only catered for 100. I'm not allowed to chuck them out now as they should be vetted against the people I have already vetted now.

It's idiotic. Crossing the border and entering the country is Illegal. They must apply for their asylum or refugee status the correct way. You are sitting here defending breaking the laws of a country just because Trump is enforcing it?

No, they can apply for asylum or refugee status and they can remain in the country while they are being processed.

They have no right to be in the country. They can/should be deported and apply at a point of entry. No grey area there. I will concede on people already in the country for a number of years. But no blanket "if they in, keep them in" That is moronic.

 

[Emjay]

Somehow this popped up on my YouTube feed. Must be because of the content of some of the comments. But, I think it's interesting information to show how memories can be contaminated, even under extreme duress, or that it is possible to implant complete traumatic experiences in 25% to 50% of the participants.

Also watch to the end to see how the public reacted to her studies. Sounds a lot like the #MeToo rhetoric.