US politics general thread

[cerebus]

It's his words, not mine.


Yes, as he wants to get rid of the illegal undocumented people in the USA. I don't see a single problem with that? He has no problem with documented people who went through the process and was awarded asylum/refugee status. I say this once again: There are legal means to get documented and their cases heard. Jumping a fence is illegal and should be treated as criminals and deported. They have are in the country ILLEGALLY!!!!

The judges are the ones who decide the merit of asylum/refugee claims. Immigrants who do not have a claim to entry are immediately deported under expedited removal laws. Not wanting judges = not wanting undocumented immigrants to have the opportunity to use legal means of entry.

 

[Pitbull]

The judges are the ones who decide the merit of asylum/refugee claims. Immigrants who do not have a claim to entry are immediately deported under expedited removal laws. Not wanting judges = not wanting undocumented immigrants to have the opportunity to use legal means of entry.

Wrong again...

They want 5 000 more judges because of the people in the country illegally (undocumented ones) who are putting strain on the system. Remove those who should not be in the country, let them go through the normal process and the backlog will sort itself out. Give it a couple of year and reevaluate your staff requirements.

Employing 5 000 judges now, work through the backlog - deport all the undocumented and not allow them to apply form within the US and only at points of entry. Now in a couple of years you will sit with too many judges.

You are being dishonest again. He wants them to do it the legal way. Having less judges doesn't mean they will not be catered for now. Delay sure. He's not denying them application. He's insisting they do it at the ports of entry and gaining entry to the US any other way will mean instant deportation. Simple as that.

 

[konfab]

The judges are the ones who decide the merit of asylum/refugee claims. Immigrants who do not have a claim to entry are immediately deported under expedited removal laws. Not wanting judges = not wanting undocumented immigrants to have the opportunity to use legal means of entry.

Careful, you are conflating two different things.

• If someone has been in the US for less than a year, or is seeking asylum at a port of entry, it is considered affirmative asylum.
• If someone is facing deportation from the US or is caught trying to enter the US illegally, they can attempt to claim asylum in order to stay. This is known as defensive asylum and has a very different timeline of events that feels more like a legal trial than a bureaucratic waiting game.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/01/world/asylum-process-refugee-migrant-immigration-trnd/index.html

You don't need judges for affirmative asylum as it is more of a bureaucratic process than a judicial one.

What Trump is arguing is that people are abusing the defensive asylum process in lieu of doing it properly via the first way (which hopefully we can agree is the better way)

 

[Temujin]

Somehow this popped up on my YouTube feed. Must be because of the content of some of the comments. But, I think it's interesting information to show how memories can be contaminated, even under extreme duress, or that it is possible to implant complete traumatic experiences in 25% to 50% of the participants.

Also watch to the end to see how the public reacted to her studies. Sounds a lot like the #MeToo rhetoric.

Yeah... and its why polygraphs aren't accepted(will watch later, so don't know if covered there). Our memories are garbage, and polygraphs only determine if you're being truthful or deceptive. And thats all linked to belief. It can't determine facts. So, if you believe aliens came down last night and probed you, or that god stuck his/her tongue in your hear, a polygraph will say you're telling the truth. Its just your belief and as such, registers as truth, thus, polygraphs are not evidence cos our beliefs make truths of our memories and our memories can be made from imagination and 'manufacture' truths

 

[Pitbull]

I don't disagree with you, but the line as to what is being argued is confusing.

I think cerebus is actually trying to somehow show that Trump is a hypocrite for not allowing due process for asylum seekers but demanding it for Kavanaugh.

Yea I don't know how we crossed that bridge, but I got into it being about refuges and asylum seekers.

Even in that, Trump is not denying immigrants due process. He's saying: "Do it the correct way. We will chuck you out if you don't" Due process is still there.

 

[cerebus]

Wrong again...

They want 5 000 more judges because of the people in the country illegally (undocumented ones) who are putting strain on the system. Remove those who should not be in the country, let them go through the normal process and the backlog will sort itself out. Give it a couple of year and reevaluate your staff requirements.

Employing 5 000 judges now, work through the backlog - deport all the undocumented and not allow them to apply form within the US and only at points of entry. Now in a couple of years you will sit with too many judges

Okay so firstly, nobody wants 5,000 more judges. Trump made that claim but nobody knows where he got the number from.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fact-check-friday-5000-judges-falsehoods/story?id=56235581

The only real evidence of requests for more judges comes from the president's own Attorney General Jeff Sessions, who has called for 100 more (in addition to the 320 currently serving around the country) and a bill from Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, which asks to increase the number to 750.

Secondly, Trump DOESN'T want to add any more judges, and it seems like he doesn't want any judges at all. He just wants to deport, no judges, no due process.

So, I said today, I said today, I don't want judges, I want ICE and Border Patrol Agents, that's what I want.

I think cerebus is actually trying to somehow show that Trump is a hypocrite for not allowing due process for asylum seekers but demanding it for Kavanaugh.

Precisely - well, that's from the article posted by @Unhappy438 a while ago. But then @Temujin claimed that Trump wasn't actually against due process because he only wanted to prevent immigrants who were actually standing at the border and hadn't entered the country, and we've been going in circles since then.

 

[Pitbull]

and it seems like he doesn't want any judges at all

This is the problem here.

You assume things. His stance on it is the correct one. We don't have to agree but that is fine. Assuming he wants this or wants to do this doesn't do the argument any good. If we look at the facts Trump is 100% correct. Our feels are irrelevant.

1. If you're in a country illegally you need to be deported
2. If you want to apply for asylum or Refugee status, follow the correct channels and processes

Simple as that. There is nothing more to it.

 

[Temujin]

Okay so firstly, nobody wants 5,000 more judges. Trump made that claim but nobody knows where he got the number from.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fact-check-friday-5000-judges-falsehoods/story?id=56235581



Secondly, Trump DOESN'T want to add any more judges, and it seems like he doesn't want any judges at all. He just wants to deport, no judges, no due process.





Precisely - well, that's from the article posted by @Unhappy438 a while ago. But then @Temujin claimed that Trump wasn't actually against due process because he only wanted to prevent immigrants who were actually standing at the border and hadn't entered the country, and we've been going in circles since then.

Must I really quote it again... here

People must simply be stopped at the Border and told they cannot come into the U.S. illegally.

 

[cerebus]

This is the problem here.

You assume things. He's stance on it is the correct one. We don't have to agree but that is fine. Assuming he wants this or wants to do this doesn't do the argument any good. If we look at the facts Trump is 100% correct. Our feels are irrelevant.

2. If you want to apply for asylum or Refugee status, follow the correct channels and processes

Through... wait for it... JUDGES. Which Trump doesn't want.

Must I really quote it again... here

What does that have to do with the other quote about not wanting judges? There's 2 separate things happening here:

1) Trump wants to prevent people from entering the country at the border.
2) Trump doesn't want judges to decide on the cases of immigration that are currently in backlog.

 

[Unhappy438]

Where? No examples have been provided

Of course they have, you've just chosen to ignore them or hand wave them away. Thats nobodies fault but your own.

 

[Temujin]

Through... wait for it... JUDGES. Which Trump doesn't want.




What does that have to do with the other quote about not wanting judges? There's 2 separate things happening here:

1) Trump wants to prevent people from entering the country at the border.
2) Trump doesn't want judges to decide on the cases of immigration that are currently in backlog.

Your words

But then @Temujin claimed that Trump wasn't actually against due process because he only wanted to prevent immigrants who were actually standing at the border and hadn't entered the country,

My response:

Must I really quote it again... here

People must simply be stopped at the Border and told they cannot come into the U.S. illegally.

Followed by your response above? Are you following your own conversation?

 

[Temujin]

Of course they have, you've just chosen to ignore them or hand wave them away. Thats nobodies fault but your own.

Haven't ignored any responses. You have yet to show me one that says trump says 'due process for some, lock them up for others' he's never said lock people up without due process or don't follow the law. Your guys inability to see that you have yet to provide anything as evidence to support it with the pages and pages of quotes you've provided is astounding

The only one that comes close to it is the guns, where he said, take the guns first, due process second

Now we've been on this 'example' where, turning illegal people away at the border is somehow 'detaining' them without due process, however that works /shrug

 

[cerebus]

Your words

My response:

Followed by your response above? Are you following your own conversation?

What are you trying to say? What do you think the judges are meant to be doing, if not processing asylum claims?

 

[Pitbull]

Through... wait for it... JUDGES. Which Trump doesn't want.

They have Judges... where is this coming from now? They asked for additional judges and Trump said no. He would rather employ more border control and ICE officials

 

[Temujin]

What are you trying to say? What do you think the judges are meant to be doing, if not processing asylum claims?

Processing claims

To be specific as you seem incapable of grasping this... processing LEGAL claims, ie people who come through the ports of entry. NOT illegal border jumpers. If they want asylum, medical, immigration, whatever, they can go to the border post, ie the legal ports of entry, and apply where they can have their 'due process'.

And again, cos your responses are predictable at this point, you're going to say you can't prove illegal without a court saying so.... the LEGAL way of entering the country is through the port of entry. Anything else, is ILLEGAL. You don't need a court to tell you that. No trial is necessary. So back to trumps words

People must simply be stopped at the Border and told they cannot come into the U.S. illegally.

 

[cerebus]

Processing claims

To be specific as you seem incapable of grasping this... processing LEGAL claims, ie people who come through the ports of entry.

Exactly my point. Trump doesn't want judges processing legal claims. His own words:

I don’t want judges. I want ICE and border patrol agents.
When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, bring them back from where they came.

Specifically this is in response to a request for more judges to handle the backlog of LEGAL immigration claims.

 

[Temujin]

Exactly my point. Trump doesn't want judges processing legal claims. His own words:



Specifically this is in response to a request for more judges to handle the backlog of LEGAL immigration claims.

Fark me, are you vegan by chance?
ILLEGAL vs LEGAL

 

[cerebus]

Fark me, are you vegan by chance?
ILLEGAL vs LEGAL

You keep screaming those words as though they mean anything.

 

[Pitbull]

Exactly my point. Trump doesn't want judges processing legal claims. His own words:



Specifically this is in response to a request for more judges to handle the backlog of LEGAL immigration claims.

Why are you being so deceitful and dishonest?

Trump said no to a request for MORE JUDGES. You are well aware of this, but claim Trump doesn't want any judges... wow...

 

[rietrot]

You keep screaming those words as though they mean anything.

Lol. Some people's world view will always blind them.