US politics general thread

[OrbitalDawn]

It's stupid in the same way that trying to solve the problem of a military invasion with more guns is stupid.

That sounds like "if you kill your enemy he wins" lefty logic.

That's some pretty warped logic right there. School shootings are analogous to military invasions. I mean :wtf:.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Smells like blackmail.

Qataris opted not to give info on Kushner, secret meetings to Mueller

Qatari officials gathered evidence of what they claim is illicit influence by the United Arab Emirates on Jared Kushner and other Trump associates, including details of secret meetings, but decided not to give the information to special counsel Robert Mueller for fear of harming relations with the Trump administration, say three sources familiar with the Qatari discussions.

 

[cerebus]

It's stupid in the same way that trying to solve the problem of a military invasion with more guns is stupid.

That sounds like "if you kill your enemy he wins" lefty logic.

No, it's stupid in the singularly American logic that dictates that since the government is powerless to prevent the proliferation of gun crimes the only solution is to arm everyone.

 

[Nick333]

That's some pretty warped logic right there. School shootings are analogous to military invasions. I mean :wtf:.

Hmm people with weapons attacking other people... You're right that description doesn't fit both scenarios at all.

 

[Nick333]

No, it's stupid in the singularly American logic that dictates that since the government is powerless to prevent the proliferation of gun crimes the only solution is to arm everyone.

Well, your hyperbole aside, how do you stop armed people from harming others?

 

[cerebus]

Well, your hyperbole aside, how do you stop armed people from harming others?

Armed people? I wouldn't know, the school shooting had armed guards and they didn't help so I can't see what difference arming your PE teacher would make. The solutions must come before the armed person is even a factor.

 

[Nick333]

Armed people? I wouldn't know, the school shooting had armed guards and they didn't help so I can't see what difference arming your PE teacher would help. The solutions must come before the armed person is even a factor.

You do realise that armed guards doing nothing in one situation doesn't mean that good people with guns will never do anything? And you do realise that "I dunno" is not any sort of solution. How is doing nothing better than doing the only logical thing i.e. having people on the scene able to take action against the baddies with guns? Why is the thought of teachers with guns such a stupid idea to you?

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Armed people? I wouldn't know, the school shooting had armed guards and they didn't help so I can't see what difference arming your PE teacher would make

You don't see any difference between an armed coward hiding far away from the line of fire while innocent children are massacred and a person who will likely already be in the line of fire whether they like it or not having the means to defend themselves and the very kids they've been molding for some months / years? :wtf:

The solutions must come before the armed person is even a factor.

Indeed, the perfect solution that will prevent any and all school shootings is imminent, Santa Claus will deliver it shortly after the Easter bunny has proofread it ... back in the real world a contingency will be required in the event that the perfect plan fails.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Hmm people with weapons attacking other people... You're right that description doesn't fit both scenarios at all.

lol, in the same way that a firecracker and a nuclear bomb are both a form of explosive, so yeah, same thing. Should treat both the same way.

 

[cerebus]

You do realise that armed guards doing nothing in one situation doesn't mean that good people with guns will never do anything?

Statistically speaking, it pretty much does. And the potential harm that can come from arming noncombatant citizens outweighs all possible good.

And you do realise that "I dunno" is not any sort of solution.

My solutions involve stemming off the hemorrhagic oversupply of unregulated guns n the first place, which is what the rest of the world does and it works fine. I'm not worried about mass shootings because it's a nonfactor in SA.

How is doing nothing better than doing the only logical thing i.e. having people on the scene able to take action against the baddies with guns? Why is the thought of teachers with guns such a stupid idea to you?

It's absurd and cruel to behave as though you have no choice but to treat schools as warzones, when you refuse to do anything to stand up to the legislative power of the NRA.

 

[Nick333]

lol, in the same way that a firecracker and a nuclear bomb are both a form of explosive.

Don't be obtuse. In the same way that someone attacking people with weapons requires an armed response regardless of scale.

 

[Nick333]

Statistically speaking, it pretty much does. And the potential harm that can come from arming noncombatant citizens outweighs all possible good.

Source for those statistics please. The vast majority of trained, armed, non-combatant, citizens are no more dangerous than you.

My solutions involve stemming off the hemorrhagic oversupply of unregulated guns n the first place, which is what the rest of the world does and it works fine. I'm not worried about mass shootings because it's a nonfactor in SA.

Which will stop school shootings on what sort of time scale.

It's absurd and cruel to behave as though you have no choice but to treat schools as warzones, when you refuse to do anything to stand up to the legislative power of the NRA.

More hyperbole.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

You do realise that armed guards doing nothing in one situation doesn't mean that good people with guns will never do anything? And you do realise that "I dunno" is not any sort of solution. How is doing nothing better than doing the only logical thing i.e. having people on the scene able to take action against the baddies with guns? Why is the thought of teachers with guns such a stupid idea to you?

Who said do nothing? "Thoughts & prayers" has been the response from the people who don't want to do anything. Until now, I guess. Now they've started coming up with idiotic ideas like giving teachers guns.

There are reams of other policy proposals that have come through that always crash against the wall of politicians that are beholden to the NRA.

Besides, the "good guy with a gun" thing is a myth.

States with right-to-carry concealed handgun laws experience increases in violent crime

Don't be obtuse. In the same way that someone attacking people with weapons requires an armed response regardless of scale.

Sure. But to ignore the problem until the point where it ends with someone shooting up a school is dumb. That's what this is.

 

[Hamish McPanji]

That's some pretty warped logic right there. School shootings are analogous to military invasions. I mean :wtf:.

And he ended his story with "lefty logic" ..lol

 

[Unhappy438]

Don't be obtuse. In the same way that someone attacking people with weapons requires an armed response regardless of scale.

An armed response by the armed forces, not teachers, they are paid to teach, not get involved in gun battles. The US is truly broken if the only solution to combat gun violence in schools is to arm the teachers.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

This Betsy DeVos interview is... something.

[video=youtube;vd2KM_jhijU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd2KM_jhijU[/video]

 

[OrbitalDawn]

US sets new record for censoring, withholding gov't files

The federal government censored, withheld or said it couldn't find records sought by citizens, journalists and others more often last year than at any point in the past decade, according to an Associated Press analysis of new data.

The calculations cover eight months under President Donald Trump, the first hints about how his administration complies with the Freedom of Information Act.

The surge of people who sought records but ended up empty-handed was driven by the government saying more than ever it could not find a single page of requested files and asserting in other cases that it would be illegal under U.S. laws to release the information.

People who asked for records under the Freedom of Information Act received censored files or nothing in 78 percent of 823,222 requests, a record over the past decade.

I recall Alan pretending to be upset by things like this.

 

[cerebus]

Source for those statistics please. The vast majority of trained, armed, non-combatant, citizens are no more dangerous than you.

OB posted a pretty good link with stats.

Which will stop school shootings on what sort of time scale.

Compared to the mostly useless gesture of arming teachers, which might or might not prevent a tragedy from ever occurring, removing guns from circulation would have a permanent lasting effect.

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-...completely-eliminated-gun-deaths-2017-10?IR=T

More hyperbole.

It's hyperbole to suggest that someone who signed up to teach kids shouldn't also be expected to place themselves into the firing line simply because the government has given up on tackling the issue of gun ownership? It's effectively throwing up your hands at the problem. Why not just arm all the students and hope that enough of them turn out to be good guys?

 

[Aquila ka Hecate]

OB posted a pretty good link with stats.



Compared to the mostly useless gesture of arming teachers, which might or might not prevent a tragedy from ever occurring, removing guns from circulation would have a permanent lasting effect.

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-...completely-eliminated-gun-deaths-2017-10?IR=T



It's hyperbole to suggest that someone who signed up to teach kids shouldn't also be expected to place themselves into the firing line simply because the government has given up on tackling the issue of gun ownership? It's effectively throwing up your hands at the problem. Why not just arm all the students and hope that enough of them turn out to be good guys?

..or just, you know, arm everybody and hope that that puts a stop to the US of A for good.

 

[rietrot]

So it is finally the end of the Russians. And geuss what no collusion happened.