V&A Waterfront Vision

[Hosehead]

1. Of course we aren't in the centre of Europe but since we are such a poor city/area why was the Grand Arena packed for the Virgin Concert, the Lionel Richie concert with about 15,000 and the Rod Stewart Concert packed too within weeks of each other. People seem to be forking out R400, contradicting your statement. Perhaps not every month, but the demand at certain times of the year is there. There was Elton John, Celine Dion...20,000+. Coke Fest 20,000+

The very reason Newlands Cricket Stadium has been used so much this year including Kenilworth Racecourse or that ridiculous location for the Celine Dion concert was due to the lack of a modern facility able to cope with large crowds of that nature.

YAWN. These crowds were drops in the ocean. You'd need to fill a venue like Greenpoint with minimum 50,000 people week in and week out to turn a profit. It's not going to happen. Remember Grandwest...They have capacity of around 5000 and their concerts have almost all been with seats to spare. Yes. Plenty of seats available!!
5 don't buy the arguement that the other venues as you say are unable to cope with large crowds. They always have with sporting events. It's not that. It's more a case of crap acoustics eg. velodrome.

2. The Stade de France does not have a tenant and is itself a success.
I agree that they face challenges and that these should not be overlooked but I'm also not ruling out WP Rugby moving to Green Point (the better stadium) as SAIL own a quarter of WP Rugby.

They wont. WP said again a couple of weeks ago they are NOT MOVING. In any case, it would be a bad move. Apart from one or two big matches, my guess is that nobody will pack the stadium.

3. Why can't Stade de France manage the stadium effortlessly. Have you seen the contract? Read the negotiations with the city? Know any of the details regarding rates, maintenance..etc??

They are depending on Morne and his Merry Men to manage it. It will be a real eye opener for Stade de France.
Remember Africa is not for Sissies. Stade will find out the hard way no doubt.

4. National Government has stepped in thrice with additional funding and are likely to step in again. Who do you think has been plugging the gap from the contracted price of R2.85 billion to the price of R4 billion? Certainly not Mugabe.

Of course they've stepped in before, but with the recent empty FIFA branded begging bowl being flat out rejected in Council (and it won't be the last either) National Government haven't yet come in with the 3-4 Billion shortfall have they? The ratepayers will be stiffed again.

5. Is the basic service delivery decreasing suddenly because of the stadium or because the local councillor has been ineffective? Has the Green Point CID not done anything? We can find many things that are not working so well and blame it on the stadium.

It's nothing to do with local councillors. Many suburbs are just not a priority anymore for basic services like cleansing,
sweeping, etc. The council has redirected that money elsewhere. Any guesses where?

 

[Hosehead]

4) And "many businesses moving to the suburbs and don't want to return" is the usual bull coming out of your mouth. Office space occupancies in the CBD are at a record high. New office blocks are popping up everywhere...Portside, being Cape Town's new tallest building, consists largely of office space. You never cease to amaze me...and not in a good way.
.

Actually office vacancies are at an all time HIGH. How do I know? I've been next to an empty office for 6 months and the owners cannot get a tenant. Just look around at all the signs. "TO LET" Maybe there's a scarcity of A grade office space but there's an oversupply of B grade and even at 70 Rands per sq m in the CBD takers are few and far between.

 

[Sackboy]

It's nothing to do with local councillors. Many suburbs are just not a priority anymore for basic services like cleansing,
sweeping, etc. The council has redirected that money elsewhere. Any guesses where?

We don't need to guess. Apart from their contribution to the stadium, it's going into the townships (From the mouth of a councilor)

 

[Lydon]

If someone pretends to be 'in the know', what did you expect. Sadly your rather self-important sounding responses became quite obviously juvenile and troll-like, which prompted me to find out exactly who you were. Do you admit to posing as someone involved in 2010. (how sad is that?)

I know about 2. which has been actioned, but there is no sign of improvement.
Re. 4, I was talking about shops, which have relocated to the suburbs. (again before your time )

Speaking of facts and figures, where are yours for the points above??

I've never been to a popular performance in Europe where there were ANY spare seats. The response is usually to lay on another concert date, not build bigger venues. It is not unusual to sell out within a week. We're not talking about your taste in music here

Hahaha. Well firstly your own words make me question the validity of your claim. If I "posed" as someone involved in 2010, and did it so badly, you wouldn't have felt the need to do some "research" (so that's what they call clicking on a username these days - you oracle you!) into who I am. Plus, if I wanted to pose so badly, I wouldn't have linked you to skyscrapercity where it is a well known fact I am who I am, or asked my initial question as to who exactly capetownguy is, as surely I wouldn't have known. Lastly, I wouldn't have placed information so clearly on my profile for the likes of the general public to view. Whilst you may have been an immature kid with the brain capacity of a teaspoon at age 18, remember not everyone was/is.

Furthermore, I love the way you suddenly completely change the wording of your initial arguments when you realise they don't tie up. You "knowing" about 2 public squares being upgraded doesn't mean that others aren't being upgraded (because I can assure you, there's clearly alot you don't know!) Secondly, the "important" squares have not yet completed their upgrades, so you must be mistaking a traffic island for a public square or something. And with regards to the businesses, they're suddenly stores now ey? And these stores moved BEFORE my time? So then what exactly does that have to do with the current situation in the CBD if they left so long ago?

Also, exactly how many "popular performances" have you been to in Europe? And by whom exactly? As you mentioned, the trend is to host another concert on another day, which has been done numerous times in the past here. There comes a time, however, when building a bigger venue is simply necessary. Besides that, you forget we're at the tip of Africa here. Getting artists to fly down here in the first place is hard enough, but to perform at numerous concerts is often pushing it. European tours are much easier to handle as everything is in such close proximity. This has been said by Big Concerts themselves in the past.

I will more than gladly get you the facts and figures required once my international cap has been replenished.

Keep in mind the rules of arguing - personal opinions mean nothing (which is all you have provided us with so far), personal attacks are a sign of avoiding the argument itself and sweeping statements, once again, do nothing to further your argument. For someone of your age, whatever it may be, you certainly do lack not only the above argumentative skills, but also the maturity to sit down and have an intelligent discussion without resulting in attacking the opposing side

 

[Lydon]

Oh, and I'll be more than happy to provide you with dozens upon dozens of pictures and renders detailing the progress of current upgrades, and planned future upgrades once that international cap hits me.

There's a reason Helen Zille won the World Mayor 2008 award, why Cape Town is listed as one of the world's top 10 cities, why it's rated the number 1 city in Africa, why it's seeing billions upon billions of Rands in investments in the CBD, why there's such a demand for space in the CBD they're taking the railway lines underground, why height restrictions are being revised in order to allow for better use of space due to the demand for office space, why more people are choosing so live in the CBD than ever before, why despite its apparent filth and mismanagement it's the number 1 tourist destination in Africa and whose airport was voted as one of the world's top 10, why it's rated as one of the worlds top 25 sustainable cities and future global cities, why its also rated as Africa's number 1 convention city, having secured many top international conferences, or why, despite the world economic crisis its economy is expected to GROW by at least a percentage point more than it currently is even if the country as a whole slips into economic recession.

Truly tough times in the deepest darkest reaches of Africa.

 

[Hosehead]

Oh, and I'll be more than happy to provide you with dozens upon dozens of pictures and renders detailing the progress of current upgrades, and planned future upgrades once that international cap hits me.

There's a reason Helen Zille won the World Mayor 2008 award, why Cape Town is listed as one of the world's top 10 cities, why it's rated the number 1 city in Africa, why it's seeing billions upon billions of Rands in investments in the CBD, why there's such a demand for space in the CBD they're taking the railway lines underground, why height restrictions are being revised in order to allow for better use of space due to the demand for office space, why more people are choosing so live in the CBD than ever before, why despite its apparent filth and mismanagement it's the number 1 tourist destination in Africa and whose airport was voted as one of the world's top 10, why it's rated as one of the worlds top 25 sustainable cities and future global cities, why its also rated as Africa's number 1 convention city, having secured many top international conferences, or why, despite the world economic crisis its economy is expected to GROW by at least a percentage point more than it currently is even if the country as a whole slips into economic recession.

Truly tough times in the deepest darkest reaches of Africa.

For all its merits you must remember Cape Town is a TINY TINY city, if not the smallest "city" on the world map of similiar cities that it is being compared to...And remember all this regurgitated top 10, top 50, No 1 in Africa etc etc -is all spin, which is clipped, hawked and spitballed by Tourism stakeholders like our useless Cape Town Tourism and it's done by the same international publications year after year. - Mostly Travel and Leisure and Conde Naste magazines. But here's a fact that these self annointed travel gurus overlooked- The most expensive city in the world is right here in Africa- Luanda. Angola. And there are far more beautiful places in Africa than Cape Town-Not that it matters any, but their voting readership is unlikely to ever set foot in any place that doesn't offer them all the creature comforts of their westernised homes-, but offer them Africa and a choice between the two cities that offer living similiar to their own lifestyles and then Cape Town will beat Johannesburg every time. I don't think these publications ever consider another African country at least not seriously. And while I'm at it, let me shoot down the myth of demand for CBD living. We've tried loft living for years- and it never took off. Still hasn't. The New York lifestyle won't work in Cape Town because Cape Town is Not a 24 hour city. Everything closes at 10pm except a few bars. On weekends the city is deserted. Except for those people who forked over a million or so for a loft apartment or for tourists who learn too late that they should have stayed in a better location. There are no 24 hour/ late night grocery shops and stores. there is nothing to sustain the city living concept. There's no vibe. For all this misguided city living concept, people still need to get in their cars and drive OUT of the cbd to get essentials. Oh. Wait. If You build it they will come. Sure. Not in my lifetime.

 

[Lydon]

For all its merits you must remember Cape Town is a TINY TINY city, if not the smallest "city" on the world map of similiar cities that it is being compared to...And remember all this regurgitated top 10, top 50, No 1 in Africa etc etc -is all spin, which is clipped, hawked and spitballed by Tourism stakeholders like our useless Cape Town Tourism and it's done by the same international publications year after year. - Mostly Travel and Leisure and Conde Naste magazines. But here's a fact that these self annointed travel gurus overlooked- The most expensive city in the world is right here in Africa- Luanda. Angola. And there are far more beautiful places in Africa than Cape Town-Not that it matters any, but their voting readership is unlikely to ever set foot in any place that doesn't offer them all the creature comforts of their westernised homes-, but offer them Africa and a choice between the two cities that offer living similiar to their own lifestyles and then Cape Town will beat Johannesburg every time. I don't think these publications ever consider another African country at least not seriously. And while I'm at it, let me shoot down the myth of demand for CBD living. We've tried loft living for years- and it never took off. Still hasn't. The New York lifestyle won't work in Cape Town because Cape Town is Not a 24 hour city. Everything closes at 10pm except a few bars. On weekends the city is deserted. Except for those people who forked over a million or so for a loft apartment or for tourists who learn too late that they should have stayed in a better location. There are no 24 hour/ late night grocery shops and stores. there is nothing to sustain the city living concept. There's no vibe. For all this misguided city living concept, people still need to get in their cars and drive OUT of the cbd to get essentials. Oh. Wait. If You build it they will come. Sure. Not in my lifetime.

Firstly, exactly one of those awards I mentioned was from Travel and Leisure magazine. The rest were from other sources. But I guess you, and of course Sackboy, know better then thousands upon thousands of other people.

Secondly, it is a fact that more people are moving into the CBD. The numbers prove it. The nonsense about CT not having a nightlife is one of the funniest things I've heard in a long time. The V&A is packed at night and Long Street is buzzing with activity. When last have you actually been outside at night? It truly shocks me how anyone can say that the CT CBD of all places has no nightlife.

And in conclusion, as public transport continues to be implemented and more people start moving into the CBD it is only natural that city living will take off. CT will never be New York simply because it isn't dense enough. It can, however, have its own style of city living. I, for one, love CT at night.

 

[Hosehead]

.

Secondly, it is a fact that more people are moving into the CBD. The numbers prove it. The nonsense about CT not having a nightlife is one of the funniest things I've heard in a long time. The V&A is packed at night and Long Street is buzzing with activity. When last have you actually been outside at night? It truly shocks me how anyone can say that the CT CBD of all places has no nightlife.

And in conclusion, as public transport continues to be implemented and more people start moving into the CBD it is only natural that city living will take off. CT will never be New York simply because it isn't dense enough. It can, however, have its own style of city living. I, for one, love CT at night.

Well you must be the Ostrich.

Nightlife is entirely different from 24 hour city living. Yes Capetown has SEASONAL nightlife and most kitchens close otherwise at 10-11pm. Fast food joints might stay open a little later. If you ever wandered around Cape town on a winter Saturday afternoon, you would be hard pressed to find anything open, except maybe the legs at the local knock shops.
True city living requires stores like Pharmacies, supermarkets, copy shops, Restuarants, etc etc to be open until late late at night or around the clock and Cape Town has none of these except a handful of CBD restuarants. (excluding Seapoint and Gardens and Waterfront might as well be a different country)
Sure the CBD has many one season wonder clubs and bars and here's some news for you, a shiitload of coffee bars went belly up. Why? *sings to self* " Oh to be an Ostrich."

 

[Lydon]

Everything closes at 10pm except a few bars. On weekends the city is deserted.

That is what I was referring to and both you and I know that that is utter BS.

Anyway, I present an article with regards to office vacancies:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=21684580&postcount=149

---

Offices and hotels big in CT

Office vacancies are at record lows while the development and refurbishment of hotels are at record highs in Cape Town.

According to Dave Russell, director of Baker Street Properties, the most recent SAPOA office vacancy figures show that office vacancies have been declining across the board for the past two and a half years, especially in all the established office nodes throughout Cape Town.

"Claremont, Rondebosch and Newlands in Cape Town's southern suburbs have office vacancies of just over 1%, meaning those areas are full," he says. "In Cape Town's CBD, A-grade office vacancies are down to 3%, which is critical too."

Testimony to the shortage of A-grade office vacancies in Cape Town's CBD is the fact that Old Mutual Investment Group Property Investments' (OMIGPI) office tower Triangle House has been fully let in record time. Triangle House forms part of OMIGPI's Triangle unitised funds, which are geared to providing income for institutional retirement funds.

"It's at a level in Cape Town whereby there are no options available to accommodate growth of tenants wanting to move into a particular node, especially tenants who need premises of approximately 1 000 m2," says Russell.

Russell explains that on the back of demand there has been an increase in rentals. "A-grade office rentals in Cape Town's southern suburbs range from R100 to R130 per m2, while in the CBD A-grade rentals range between R95 to R125 per m2," he says. According to an OMIGPI study, premium space in the CBD fetches rentals of up to R140 per m2, with older A-grade offices fetching up to R115 per m2.

The study further says that the demand for office space in the greater Cape Town metro area can be expected to grow in line with overall macro-economic growth in South Africa.

"The study indicates demand for office space in greater Cape Town can be expected to grow at an annual 107 000 m² through to 2015," says Brent Wiltshire, business development executive for OMIGPI.

"If the Cape Town CBD maintains its 40% share of the metropolitan office market, demand for office space in the CBD will be about 43 000 m² a year."

Wiltshire says the study found there are plans for an additional 60 000 m² of office space in the metro area, 24 000 m² of this to be located in the CBD.

"It also notes that after two decades of decline, with decentralisation and residential growth creating strong nodes away from the CBD, work done on improving the inner city has brought a change in fortunes," he says.

"It also appears that the CBD has turned a corner with total available office space increasing, total occupied office square meterage increasing and vacancy levels dropping to 6,5% for the period 2002 to 2007."

Growthpoint Properties Limited has also seen a dramatic upswing in leasing activity in the Western Cape region, with deals concluded increasing by 45% over 2006.

"Overall, the Cape Town leasing statistics for retail, office and industrial space show an increase from a deal value of R256 million in 2006 to R370 million in 2007," explains David Stoll, regional manager of Growthpoint Properties Limited in Cape Town. An analysis of the leasing figures for 2007 shows that office leases made up the largest slice of the leasing pie, totaling a value of R154 million or 42% of leasing deals. "The indicators suggest that office leases particularly are achieving strong rentals," he says.

Russell stresses that the increase in office rentals has not yet peaked and will continue to increase until new buildings come on stream. He points out that there is a new office development, The Boulevard, which will provide 36 000 m2 of top-quality office space on periphery of town as well as some developments in the Foreshore.

He also explains that although retail is active in Cape Town, retail rentals have peaked because "retail feels the effects of the National Credit Act".

In addition to the shortage of office vacancies in Cape Town's CBD, the CBD is also becoming a hot spot for hoteliers.

Findings were presented at the eighth annual general meeting of the Cape Town Partnership that showed that approximately 50% of the tourist beds in the greater Cape Town region are located in the CBD.

And plans are afoot for many new hotel developments like the Taj Palace Hotel and 15 on Orange for R500 million respectively.

The variable in the picture that could still noticeably impact office vacancies and hotel development is lack of power, the effect of which still remains to be seen. The upside though is that Cape Town's CBD is set to receive R30 billion in private and public investment over the next five years, making the overall picture rather rosy. By Kara Michaels

---

You were saying?

 

[The_Pumpkin_King]

errrrrm, so what does it look like now?

 

[Lydon]

What does what look like? The Waterfront, stadium, CBD?

 

[capetownguy]

The Cape Town CBD is arguably the South African success story in terms of transformation.
The city however needs to boost its inner city population to ensure its becomes a 24/7 area and that would require massive policy changes as we are seeing e.g. The Cape Town Tall buildings policy and the focus on achieving greater density. Affordable housing within the CBD and around it will be vital as it progresses in the future. Unlocking strategic land parcels around Culemborg, the Harbour and the station will significantly contribute to its ability to expand.

That said its certainly a fantastic area for events 100,000 showing up for the festive lights switch-on, thousands more a few days later for the Twilight run, thousands pack the streets for the Night Markets and of course many many more for the Annual Minstrel Festival.

Its ideal for hosting thousands of spectators during the world cup...along with the rain and storms!! eish.

 

[capetownguy]

..And remember all this regurgitated top 10, top 50, No 1 in Africa etc etc -is all spin, which is clipped, hawked and spitballed by Tourism stakeholders like our useless Cape Town Tourism and it's done by the same international publications year after year.

So the same people who rated Cape Town International Airport as a top 10 airport colluded with the same people who ranked Helen Zille as the world's best mayor who colluded with the same people at the Telegraph (UK) that rated Cape Town the best city in the world who colluded with the same people at Conde Naste Travel and Leisure who colluded with the same people who ranked the Cape Town as Africa's top convention city who colluded with that British Magazine who rated the CTICC tops for 2007/2008 who colluded with that other publication which ranked Cape Town ahead of New York as a long haul destination who colluded with the other publication rating Cape Town as a major sustainable city who colluded with that other publication who colluded.......................................................................................................................
with Cape Town Tourism!!

It all makes sense now!

To ignore the obvious challenges as you have mentioned e.g. the need for an inner city population to provide a real city life would be silly but the state of the CBD ten years ago was a big big challenge, getting more people to live in the CBD is the next challenge, along with seamlessly connecting the city to the waterfront and in the future reconnecting the city with its Harbour.

The work of Cape Town Partnership though cannot be ignored as its a major reason for the revival of the CBD and has provided the correct environment to attract the R30bn billion in investments we will see over the next few years.

 

[Juggy]

Exactly. They took the freely accessible common and made it private.

A shopping center is a public place but they close the doors when it's not being used.

/Yoda
Negative you are hmmmmm
/Yoda

 

[Juggy]

I don't think you actually listen, which is why there was no real public participation (typical of this country) and the contempt with which you hold the 12 official objectors.

It was a forgone conclusion, of that I'm convinced. The Council demolished the old stadium before objections about the project could be heard, claiming that it was a separate issue. That's how sneaky & desperate they were.

What you are saying about the old stadium crumbling is irrelevant because it was too small. You refuse to go into why these things are crumbling/dangerous or disused in the first place, which irks me.

I don't believe the operators can make a profit from such a large venue. They are going to remove a lot of the seats for a start. With the optimistic forecasting, it will be more than 10 years before the cost of building just the stadium will be recovered (at today's value).

You sound like another of those short sighted people that doesn't like progress, maybe we should go back to living in caves and hunting animals with spears and beating our woman over the head. If we didn't get started and waited for all those bored people that merely oppose because they have nothing better to do we would be behind in construction and probably still be fighting for progress.

 

[capetownguy]

A shopping center is a public place but they close the doors when it's not being used.

/Yoda
Negative you are hmmmmm
/Yoda

theres no point. unless you enjoy going in circles.

save our bergie infested "green" public space!

 

[Hosehead]

That is what I was referring to and both you and I know that that is utter BS.

Nope my misguided friend. Everything that does not involve Restuarants or bars is closed in the CBD often long before 10pm or restuarants by 11pm latest and most kithens have dished up last orders by then.



---

Offices and hotels big in CT

Office vacancies are at record lows while the development and refurbishment of hotels are at record highs in Cape Town.

According to Dave Russell, director of Baker Street Properties, the most recent SAPOA office vacancy figures show that office vacancies have been declining across the board for the past two and a half years, especially in all the established office nodes throughout Cape Town.

"Claremont, Rondebosch and Newlands in Cape Town's southern suburbs have office vacancies of just over 1%, meaning those areas are full," he says. "In Cape Town's CBD, A-grade office vacancies are down to 3%, which is critical too."

Testimony to the shortage of A-grade office vacancies in Cape Town's CBD is the fact that Old Mutual Investment Group Property Investments' (OMIGPI) office tower Triangle House has been fully let in record time. Triangle House forms part of OMIGPI's Triangle unitised funds, which are geared to providing income for institutional retirement funds.

"It's at a level in Cape Town whereby there are no options available to accommodate growth of tenants wanting to move into a particular node, especially tenants who need premises of approximately 1 000 m2," says Russell.

Russell explains that on the back of demand there has been an increase in rentals. "A-grade office rentals in Cape Town's southern suburbs range from R100 to R130 per m2, while in the CBD A-grade rentals range between R95 to R125 per m2," he says. According to an OMIGPI study, premium space in the CBD fetches rentals of up to R140 per m2, with older A-grade offices fetching up to R115 per m2.

The study further says that the demand for office space in the greater Cape Town metro area can be expected to grow in line with overall macro-economic growth in South Africa.

"The study indicates demand for office space in greater Cape Town can be expected to grow at an annual 107 000 m² through to 2015," says Brent Wiltshire, business development executive for OMIGPI.

"If the Cape Town CBD maintains its 40% share of the metropolitan office market, demand for office space in the CBD will be about 43 000 m² a year."

Wiltshire says the study found there are plans for an additional 60 000 m² of office space in the metro area, 24 000 m² of this to be located in the CBD.

"It also notes that after two decades of decline, with decentralisation and residential growth creating strong nodes away from the CBD, work done on improving the inner city has brought a change in fortunes," he says.

"It also appears that the CBD has turned a corner with total available office space increasing, total occupied office square meterage increasing and vacancy levels dropping to 6,5% for the period 2002 to 2007."

Growthpoint Properties Limited has also seen a dramatic upswing in leasing activity in the Western Cape region, with deals concluded increasing by 45% over 2006.

"Overall, the Cape Town leasing statistics for retail, office and industrial space show an increase from a deal value of R256 million in 2006 to R370 million in 2007," explains David Stoll, regional manager of Growthpoint Properties Limited in Cape Town. An analysis of the leasing figures for 2007 shows that office leases made up the largest slice of the leasing pie, totaling a value of R154 million or 42% of leasing deals. "The indicators suggest that office leases particularly are achieving strong rentals," he says.

Russell stresses that the increase in office rentals has not yet peaked and will continue to increase until new buildings come on stream. He points out that there is a new office development, The Boulevard, which will provide 36 000 m2 of top-quality office space on periphery of town as well as some developments in the Foreshore.

He also explains that although retail is active in Cape Town, retail rentals have peaked because "retail feels the effects of the National Credit Act".

In addition to the shortage of office vacancies in Cape Town's CBD, the CBD is also becoming a hot spot for hoteliers.

Findings were presented at the eighth annual general meeting of the Cape Town Partnership that showed that approximately 50% of the tourist beds in the greater Cape Town region are located in the CBD.

And plans are afoot for many new hotel developments like the Taj Palace Hotel and 15 on Orange for R500 million respectively.

The variable in the picture that could still noticeably impact office vacancies and hotel development is lack of power, the effect of which still remains to be seen. The upside though is that Cape Town's CBD is set to receive R30 billion in private and public investment over the next five years, making the overall picture rather rosy. By Kara Michaels

---

You were saying?

I'm saying that this is more slanted spin

This is all about lack of "A" grade office space which vanished or lets say was rather converted into residential units. the article conveniently does not mention the hundreds of thousand square footage of currently vacant and AVAILABLE
"B" grade office space (which is most of the old buildings in the CBD) Most of these owners have been unable to find tenants for MONTHS.
Speak to any of the commercial brokers and you will verify this.
And frankly, just who has the money to afford the rental of brand new "A" grade office space in these uncertain economic times? "B" grade is more prudent, but then again there are not many takers...

 

[Hosehead]

So the same people who rated Cape Town International Airport as a top 10 airport colluded with the same people who ranked Helen Zille as the world's best mayor who colluded with the same people at the Telegraph (UK) that rated Cape Town the best city in the world who colluded with the same people at Conde Naste Travel and Leisure who colluded with the same people who ranked the Cape Town as Africa's top convention city who colluded with that British Magazine who rated the CTICC tops for 2007/2008 who colluded with that other publication which ranked Cape Town ahead of New York as a long haul destination who colluded with the other publication rating Cape Town as a major sustainable city who colluded with that other publication who colluded.......................................................................................................................
with Cape Town Tourism!!

It all makes sense now!

.

Oh Grow up. Think about it. It's the same publications year in and year out running the same polls. It's actually boring now. It'll be the same next year too.

 

[Lydon]

Nope my misguided friend. Everything that does not involve Restuarants or bars is closed in the CBD often long before 10pm or restuarants by 11pm latest and most kithens have dished up last orders by then.

---

I'm saying that this is more slanted spin

This is all about lack of "A" grade office space which vanished or lets say was rather converted into residential units. the article conveniently does not mention the hundreds of thousand square footage of currently vacant and AVAILABLE
"B" grade office space (which is most of the old buildings in the CBD) Most of these owners have been unable to find tenants for MONTHS.
Speak to any of the commercial brokers and you will verify this.
And frankly, just who has the money to afford the rental of brand new "A" grade office space in these uncertain economic times? "B" grade is more prudent, but then again there are not many takers...

What part of *that* do you not understand? You said everything closes in the CBD at night and I corrected you. You then proceeded to repeat exactly what I said. I'll repeat it again for you - I KNOW those are about the only things that stay open late at night, but that will begin to change over time. Re-read my post.

Secondly, I'll listen to the latter half of your post once you provide some facts and figures to back it up. I need not speak to anyone in order to find out considering I'm not the one making the point.

Oh Grow up. Think about it. It's the same publications year in and year out running the same polls. It's actually boring now. It'll be the same next year too.

The only one here who needs to think is you. What relevance does it have if its the same publications running it? How do you explain another city winning one year and then Cape Town the next? Let's take the World Mayor award...Helen Zille won this year. When last did another South African mayor win? And how many times in total?

Once again you're being sensationalist. You can prove any of this nonsense.

A shopping center is a public place but they close the doors when it's not being used.

/Yoda
Negative you are hmmmmm
/Yoda

Hahaha, amen!

 

[Sackboy]

So the same people who rated Cape Town International Airport as a top 10 airport colluded with the same people who ranked Helen Zille as the world's best mayor who colluded with the same people at the Telegraph (UK) that rated Cape Town the best city in the world who colluded with the same people at Conde Naste Travel and Leisure who colluded with the same people who ranked the Cape Town as Africa's top convention city who colluded with that British Magazine who rated the CTICC tops for 2007/2008 who colluded with that other publication which ranked Cape Town ahead of New York as a long haul destination who colluded with the other publication rating Cape Town as a major sustainable city who colluded with that other publication who colluded.......................................................................................................................
with Cape Town Tourism!!

It all makes sense now!

To ignore the obvious challenges as you have mentioned e.g. the need for an inner city population to provide a real city life would be silly but the state of the CBD ten years ago was a big big challenge, getting more people to live in the CBD is the next challenge, along with seamlessly connecting the city to the waterfront and in the future reconnecting the city with its Harbour.

The work of Cape Town Partnership though cannot be ignored as its a major reason for the revival of the CBD and has provided the correct environment to attract the R30bn billion in investments we will see over the next few years.

Oh, I thought you were leaving, couldn't take the heat etc..

If Cape Town is the "best city in the world" (and I can't find a reference for this quote so it remains your opinion), then it has little to do with toilet bowls, pepperpots, bunker houses on the seaside, or anything to do with skyscrapers or concrete (your grubby fetish ).

Cape Town has NATURAL BEAUTY, which many places in the world do not. Spoil that and the tourists will stop coming. WE DON'T WANT DENSIFICATION EITHER.

Your whole approach is how can we/I earn money? Were you born in Cape Town?

A shopping center is a public place but they close the doors when it's not being used.

/Yoda
Negative you are hmmmmm
/Yoda

Do you have to pay to get into a shopping centre?

Nope my misguided friend. Everything that does not involve Restuarants or bars is closed in the CBD often long before 10pm or restuarants by 11pm latest and most kithens have dished up last orders by then.
..
I'm saying that this is more slanted spin

You're arguing with a just-turned-18-yr old who's just discovered women and alcohol. Of course his whole life revolves around going out. He cannot possibly see it from another perspective. He's also not old enough to remember that the city was better in times past. We now have guadily painted packpackers hostels everywhere and drugs openly on sale. Again, he probably won't acknowledge this as a step backwards.