Very Disproportionate, Indeed

[Syndyre]

So?

So they could choose to open the border and end the effective blockade if they want to.

 

[rwenzori]

Then how do you explain the million embezzled by Arafat? The border with Egypt and if they can get thousands of rockets smuggled in why not not basic necessities?

They are prevented from going to their jobs, their hospitals, and they were refused their agreed tax money collected by Israel IIRC, on THEIR land. Egypt is not their homeland. It is very like the creation of the Jewish ghettos by the Germans in WWII - you take their land, their property, their means of producing income, their schools, their hospitals, then you build walls around the people you have dispossessed. Then, of course, you wonder why they elect militants and rebel, as the Warsaw ghetto did ( NOT referring to the later Warsaw uprising ).

 

[rwenzori]

So they could choose to open the border and end the effective blockade if they want to.

Egypt is not the homeland of the Palestinians. Palestine ( including Israel ) is.

 

[Syndyre]

Egypt is not the homeland of the Palestinians. Palestine ( including Israel ) is.

I mean Egypt could open the Egypt-Gaza border and allow supplies in etc. The IDF no longer control the Philadelphi Route.

 

[Sapphiron]

Before Israel there was no plight, simple.

So wrong

The Israeli/Arab conflict is as old as civilization itself.

 

[Alan]

They are prevented from going to their jobs, their hospitals, and they were refused their agreed tax money collected by Israel IIRC, on THEIR land. Egypt is not their homeland. It is very like the creation of the Jewish ghettos by the Germans in WWII - you take their land, their property, their means of producing income, their schools, their hospitals, then you build walls around the people you have dispossessed. Then, of course, you wonder why they elect militants and rebel, as the Warsaw ghetto did ( NOT referring to the later Warsaw uprising ).

Nobody is claiming they must move into Egypt. Simple pointing out that the border with Egypt can be used to bring in supplies. With all the aid they getting they should have hospitals, jobs and such. Yet were is all that aid money going? It's going into the back pockets of their "leaders", bombs to strap to 14 year olds, rockets and other weapons. You then expect Israel to believe they want peace, you expect Israel to believe they'll respect the lives of Israelis when they do this to their own people.

Gaza is on the same situation as many African countries. Their leaders take the money for themselves, the populace get nothing. When they ask why they got nothing their leaders claim some foreign power is responsible ( The Breeeetish in Mad Bob's case). The international community then sends in aid money for the suffering populace. The aid goes straight to the leaders who purchase weapons with it. Attack the foreign force "Look we're defending you". The foreign power then justifiably defends itself and the leaders claim " see they're attacking you".The populace falls for the BS and aim all their resentment and anger not at their leaders who are responsible for it but the foreign power. And around we go

 

[Sapphiron]

Both parties are in the wrong, that is definite.

Ask yourself what you would do. If bee's made a hive on you property. The chance that those bee's would kill you and your entire family is low. But given time, they would get larger and more powerful. It is likely that it could seriously hurt, or even kill your child.

Any sane parent would have the hive exterminated. It is disproportionate, but thats what the powerful do to handle threats. Its not right, but it is what happens.

Could you blame Israel that it reacted the way it did after Hamas announced that they would no longer honor the cease-fire?

What I cant understand is that Hamas would stand in front of Israel and threaten it. Any buffoon would know its going to lead to civilian casualties. Don't taunt a lion and expect not to get mauled.

That tells me that Hamas does not have its civilian's interests at heart.

 

[rwenzori]

Both parties are in the wrong, that is definite.

Ask yourself what you would do. If bee's made a hive on you property. The chance that those bee's would kill you and your entire family is low. But given time, they would get larger and more powerful. It is likely that it could seriously hurt, or even kill your child.

Any sane patent would have the hive exterminated. It is disproportionate, but thats what the powerful do to handle threats. Its not right, but it is what happens.

Well bees NOT = humans, and the "property" is not yours.

Unless you really ARE advocating a bit of genocide or "ethnic cleansing".

 

[Sapphiron]

Well bees NOT = humans, and the "property" is not yours.

Unless you really ARE advocating a bit of genocide or "ethnic cleansing".

Try not to confuse an observation with an opinion

As I said

"Its not right, but it is what happens"

Its a metaphor, used to illustrate a concept (ie a moderate threat met with overwhelming force)

Its not advisable to translate metaphors literally. leave that to religion.

 

[rwenzori]

Try not to confuse an observation with an opinion

As I said

"Its not right, but it is what happens"

Its a metaphor, used to illustrate a concept (ie a moderate threat met with overwhelming force)

Its not advisable to translate metaphors literally. leave that to religion.

OK, I stand corrected. A bit inappropriate though.

 

[adrianx]

Here's my hedonistic argument:

If someone was to put a gun to my head and say, "lets go jolling for a year, you have a choice between <insert Arab state> or Israel", I think I would choose Israel.

Sorry.

 

[krycor]

Once again your propaganda doesnt show the fact that Israel warned the civilians to leave the area, they chose not to so.....

ok.. maybe i am really dumb now or is it you? people can decide.. but one word.. blockade!

 

[Sapphiron]

OK, I stand corrected. A bit inappropriate though.

Thank you

The entire issue is a bit inappropriate though. It polarizes people, making it difficult to have rational discussions.

 

[Sackboy]

This is like THREAD NO. 5 on this topic now.

 

[Sackboy]

Egypt is not the homeland of the Palestinians. Palestine ( including Israel ) is.

There are some schools of thought that say the Palestinians and Egyptians are indistinguishable. Apparently the Muslims in this region came from the Ottoman Empire. i.e. Turkish influence

 

[rwenzori]

There are some schools of thought that say the Palestinians and Egyptians are indistinguishable. Apparently the Muslims in this region came from the Ottoman Empire. i.e. Turkish influence

That would hardly be relevant - you'd probably find the same about the British and the Irish. The issue is the land each occupied.

 

[Sackboy]

That would hardly be relevant - you'd probably find the same about the British and the Irish. The issue is the land each occupied.

If you accept that occupation in 9/10ths of the law, then perhaps that's a reason for the Israelis to stay put and outstay the previous occupiers.

 

[LazyLion]

rwenzori, are you a Muslim?

 

[rwenzori]

rwenzori, are you a Muslim?

No, I'm an atheist. Are you?

 

[Sackboy]

rwenzori, are you a Muslim?

He's still allowed to argue like one