Virus Drains Data Bundle R10 000 later.

[Csnoopy]

ic is the mod, not me Therefore ic has the power to create the poll you requested @Csnoopy. But I agree that PPDB are much safer without any unexpected nasties

Yip. But you also helped him alot to put it together.Thanks

 

[Csnoopy]

I don't know if you were being serious in that post or not, but I doubt that a poll is going to get everyone to move over to using PPDBs - there will be lots of people still stuck in contracts paying for a CDB and modem finance charges every month, my suggestion is that new HSDPA customers go out and buy the modem outright and use PPDBs instead of going the 24 month contract route, and that data contract customers should switch to using PPDBs at the end of their contract instead of renewing for another 24 months.

It is IMO common sense to avoid contracts, I don't think a poll is going to help dissuade consumers that are hell-bent on going for the contract option.

Perhaps an idea and the subject of a new thread, would be to find out how many former contract forumites have already switched to using PPDBs since they became available on 2007-04-01, something like "Do you use PPDBs [pre-paid data bundles]?" and some multiple choice poll options, like "I used to use Contract Data Bundles, but not anymore"...

Tongue in cheek, yes I was. If only it was possible to find a hole in the contract and get out.

I like your idea, Use credit card to purchase modem & then use PPDB's. But these Jokers might just say sorry we don't have stock of modems but if you take a contract we can help you immediately.

 

[Csnoopy]

Yes that could and possibly does happen, but anyone with half a brain cell would realise that that particular sales consultant or shop is shoving something unwanted down one's throat, and that there are other shops where one can buy one's HSDPA modem - preferably telling the jokers that they have competition and one will not be returning to the joker shop anytime soon.

I suppose it depends on how Vodacom supplies the modems, in data bundle packages or what ever. I shall phone a shop and see what they say.

 

[Csnoopy]

Just to reiterate. You have to regularly disconnect to allow for a data useage update because you run into OOB and you dont even know it untill several hours later. Vodacom does not have a realtime system to update data useage. Vodacom also indicates that the data useage on vodacom4me could be 3 hours late. (3 days = R10,000).

@Bruce000 has your friend been able to print a detailed report via vodacom4me?

 

[cyberbob]

This is indeed an interesting thread. My opinion ...

I believe that in this instance, the service provider (weather Vodacom, MTN or Telkom or whoever) has a responsibilty to the user to protect them (at least in part) from potential disaster.

1 simply way, is to work based on averages at least. So, when it comes to OOB a simple enough logic can be applied. Something along the lines of, user "fred" on average uses 700MB of data per month ("fred" is on a 1GB package).

Now "fred" might have an unsually busy month (or is being "attacked" or whatever). When "fred" his cap, he should be notified via sms (assumedly this does happen already).

When "fred's" usage continues to rise, he should get another sms at around 10% - 15% over his cap (1.1GB - 1.15GB) , this time, notifying him that, in order not to be cut off, he needs to send an sms back before it reaches 20% - 25% over his cap.

If no such response is received, he should be capped immediately. This should be the default policy on all new contracts.

Users should be able to then disable this failsafe (at their own peril) or increase the limits for the warnings perhaps.

But having such a system in place, would greatly protect the average user, and cut them off well before reaching a R10k account.

In this instance, Vodacom would've had average usage/billing records over the duration of the contracts life to date. Is it not then safe to assume, that if the average cost per month was say R2k, that when it started hitting R3k and beyond that perhaps there was problem? And even let it go to R10k?

I can't turn a blind eye and just say that the service provider is absolved from any form of responsibility. Just saying "we sent you a warning sms, therefore it is you problem" is simply not good enough. And in the case of not being able to "contact" the user for whatever reason, it's safe to cut the user off than to just let the account rack up and say later "sorry mate".

Anyway, just my opinion on the matter.

 

[Prometheus]

Prometheus : I would love to know where you get to the R225 figure for 5gb of Traffic?.

I'm not defending VC here, I think its wrong and they should have contacted the client ALOT sooner, but we do not know what their costs are like, it could cost VC R700 for 5gb... or more.. or less, we just don't know because we do not know all the expenses involved in the business.

R45 x 5 = R225

Yes that is only the data but Vodacom already paid for the network infrastructure and they pay for the links whether they are used or not so they can at least be understanding. I never said the client should only pay that but R1,000 is the maximum the client should pay according to the bundle price if they only bothered to contact him @ 10,000 so they still make their profit. The way I see it Vodacom is to blame for anything over R1,000 if the client was unaware of this.

Viruses, malware, spyware, etc. are not the only causes of unexplained data usage. Automatic updates in Windows, Firefox, Acrobat Reader are all to blame. All these applications have auto-update activated by default. A friend left his computer unattended, while it was connected to the Internet with a HSDPA modem. When he got back, Acrobat Reader had downloaded a 20MB update.

WireFree

I somehow doubt that updates can use 10GB even over a year unless it's an entire windows upgrade.

What a dumbass comparison. The car thing isn't a direct comparison to internet access... its like saying that you deserve training on everything you buy. When he bought the computer used to rack up the 10k bill, did he get training on that? How about the mouse, did he get free training on using that?

If he knew he was going to need help/training he should have asked for it before the damage was done. Simple.

If you get training on a car you should get training on using an internet connection even more as it could hurt you even more. No you don't get training on everything you buy but a post paid internet connection that could bankrupt you is a bit different than buying food that in the long run can make you fat.

As before, ignorance is not an excuse. Say he bought his PC from Incredible Corruption... and he format the harddrive, or fiddled in the BIOS, upping his CPU's running speed (lamance temrs) and eventually overheating and frying the CPU, is he going to hold IC responsible because they didn't give him training?

ANother dumbass comparison. The warrantee clearly states if you do any of the above it becomes null and void. Doing such extremes is very different from just leaving the thing running and something happens which isn't your fault.


I don't think anybody really understands what is involved here. It's easy to say that if you are using a pc you must know the risks but in the old days using a pc wasn't as easy as it is now. You had to know every command and its parameters to type it at the command line. Then windows came along with the emphasis on ease of use and suddenly everybody including your 2 year old started using a pc. Over night it became so easy to use a pc without knowing how to and cause immeasureable damage to it as well but nobody really gave training on how to use it.

Nobody has to give you training on using a needle and thread, you know the risks of pricking your finger (and getting aids nowadays), but if you buy a sewing machine you get an invite to a training session. Why not get one for a pc then? The answer is that a pc is really a powertool but with everybody expected to be able to use it nobody gives a thought for those that don't know how to. So you expect a person to be able to use it without instruction but when something happens OH SORRY YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THE RISKS. Sorry but that doesn't cut it, if you give someone a jigsaw and tell them to use it by just pressing the start button and pushing it forward you could be held liable if they happen to lose a finger.

 

[Syndyre]

R45 x 5 = R225

So where do you get the R45 from then?

 

[3G4me]

Tongue in cheek, yes I was. If only it was possible to find a hole in the contract and get out.

I like your idea, Use credit card to purchase modem & then use PPDB's. But these Jokers might just say sorry we don't have stock of modems but if you take a contract we can help you immediately.

I don't think that is a possibility - as the shop makes more on selling the modem to you cash (where the selling price has a 20-25% mark up), than giving it to you on a contract, (where they earn a small percentage of your spend over 2 years, the average spend on 3G is still very low). Unless of course you are a 5Gig per month user.... and how would the sales person know that upfront?

 

[Prometheus]

They asked my friend to take his Laptop in to our local Vodashop. He is still awaiting feedback from them. PS. There were no viruses found that could have caused this.

Sorry if this offends any of the tech out there but they aren't always the brightest lot and it's a long shot they will find anything if it's there. It's typical to get a response from them that an antenna won't boost your 3G signal/speed.

Also, I know not many people experience their connections staying active for long periods of time without a disconnect, but some forumites will definitely tell you that they have managed to stay connected for several days at a time - which BTW is not irresponsible behaviour if you have a proper firewall and anti-malware s/w in place and haven't left any bandwidth-hungry apps running to chew through your data bundle...

Mine typically only dies when the signal goes. But assuming you are in a good signal area this is unlikely to happen. What does happen regularly is that if you don't use your connection it simply stalls and you have to manually disconnect and reconnect it. It's fairly safe to assume this didn't happen in this situation.

... Oh by the way how is it possible that PPDB can give up to date stats but CDB can not or am I missing something somewhere?

It's the setup. With prepaid Vodacom must have live or nearly live stats or else everyone would go well past what they have paid and Vodacom would have no recourse. With contract you sign that you will pay for what you use and they know who you are so it's easy for them to simply log everything and charge you for it afterwards.

I would have preferred the option of Vodacom cutting my connection when the ppdb runs out instead of going into oob but as usual we weren't asked about this implementation.

 

[Prometheus]

I don't know if you were being serious in that post or not, but I doubt that a poll is going to get everyone to move over to using PPDBs - there will be lots of people still stuck in contracts paying for a CDB and modem finance charges every month, my suggestion is that new HSDPA customers go out and buy the modem outright and use PPDBs instead of going the 24 month contract route, and that data contract customers should switch to using PPDBs at the end of their contract instead of renewing for another 24 months.

It is IMO common sense to avoid contracts, I don't think a poll is going to help dissuade consumers that are hell-bent on going for the contract option.

Perhaps an idea and the subject of a new thread, would be to find out how many former contract forumites have already switched to using PPDBs since they became available on 2007-04-01, something like "Do you use PPDBs [pre-paid data bundles]?" and some multiple choice poll options, like "I used to use Contract Data Bundles, but not anymore"...

It would be interesting to see how many people use ppdb, cdb, and how many people switched over from one to the other.

Tongue in cheek, yes I was. If only it was possible to find a hole in the contract and get out.

I like your idea, Use credit card to purchase modem & then use PPDB's. But these Jokers might just say sorry we don't have stock of modems but if you take a contract we can help you immediately.

There probably is but you would have to pay a cancellation fee and what's left on your modem.

So where do you get the R45 from then?

That's what Telkom charges for bandwidth usage. It was mentioned in a couple of articles not sure if it's before the reduction or after it. Large isps get a discount so Vodacom probably pays less.

 

[Syndyre]

That's what Telkom charges for bandwidth usage. It was mentioned in a couple of articles not sure if it's before the reduction or after it. Large isps get a discount so Vodacom probably pays less.

I think you meant to say that ~R45 is the per GB wholesale price of SAIX-ADSL, and since SAIX-reseller ISPs can have their Radius servers hosted by Telkodemonopolies, no additional Digicrap links are actually needed by a SAIX-ADSL-Reseller ISP.

The difference between a SAIX-ADSL-Reseller ISP and Vodacom, is that Vodacom does need backhaul links which when factored in, will push the price up by quite a bit beyond that R45/GB.

I wish people would stop quoting the SAIX ADSL per GB figures in relation to Vodacom pricing because AFAIK it has no relevance, as ic says Vodacom aren't charged per GB to use someone else's network like the ADSL resellers are, they have to manage and maintain their own GSM and UMTS networks with all the associated expenses. Its a different business model to ADSL resellers, a better comparison would be comparing the ADSL ISPs to the cellphone SP's like Autopage, Nashua etc.

 

[Bruce000]

Just to reiterate. You have to regularly disconnect to allow for a data useage update because you run into OOB and you dont even know it untill several hours later. Vodacom does not have a realtime system to update data useage. Vodacom also indicates that the data useage on vodacom4me could be 3 hours late. (3 days = R10,000).

@Bruce000 has your friend been able to print a detailed report via vodacom4me?

No Not yet (little frustrating) I don't think he will. But as I said before as soon as I hear anything I will most definitely keep you posted.
Thanks again for all the support.
I must say I have a contract with Vodacom that includes a DellD620 and am very happy. I never leave my notebook connected (just something I will never do) not because someone told me. Just scared of viruses and other things that can happen. Anyhoo thanks for the support.
Cheers
B

 

[AirWolf]

Has any real progress been made between your friend and Vodacom?

 

[Csnoopy]

@bruce000. Yes what has happened to Friend it is almost weekend again & still no update. We are all anxious!!

 

[I-JEDI]

LOL,maybe Bruce000 is the FRIEND........

 

[Csnoopy]

R45 x 5 = R225

Yes that is only the data but Vodacom already paid for the network infrastructure and they pay for the links whether they are used or not so they can at least be understanding. I never said the client should only pay that but R1,000 is the maximum the client should pay according to the bundle price if they only bothered to contact him @ 10,000 so they still make their profit. The way I see it Vodacom is to blame for anything over R1,000 if the client was unaware of this.

I somehow doubt that updates can use 10GB even over a year unless it's an entire windows upgrade.

If you get training on a car you should get training on using an internet connection even more as it could hurt you even more. No you don't get training on everything you buy but a post paid internet connection that could bankrupt you is a bit different than buying food that in the long run can make you fat.

ANother dumbass comparison. The warrantee clearly states if you do any of the above it becomes null and void. Doing such extremes is very different from just leaving the thing running and something happens which isn't your fault.


I don't think anybody really understands what is involved here. It's easy to say that if you are using a pc you must know the risks but in the old days using a pc wasn't as easy as it is now. You had to know every command and its parameters to type it at the command line. Then windows came along with the emphasis on ease of use and suddenly everybody including your 2 year old started using a pc. Over night it became so easy to use a pc without knowing how to and cause immeasureable damage to it as well but nobody really gave training on how to use it.

Nobody has to give you training on using a needle and thread, you know the risks of pricking your finger (and getting aids nowadays), but if you buy a sewing machine you get an invite to a training session. Why not get one for a pc then? The answer is that a pc is really a powertool but with everybody expected to be able to use it nobody gives a thought for those that don't know how to. So you expect a person to be able to use it without instruction but when something happens OH SORRY YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THE RISKS. Sorry but that doesn't cut it, if you give someone a jigsaw and tell them to use it by just pressing the start button and pushing it forward you could be held liable if they happen to lose a finger.

Thanks for that I agree !!!!!!! It is scary how many people know anything about PC's. Some cannot even find the power on switch.

 

[Prometheus]

I think you meant to say that ~R45 is the per GB wholesale price of SAIX-ADSL, and since SAIX-reseller ISPs can have their Radius servers hosted by Telkodemonopolies, no additional Digicrap links are actually needed by a SAIX-ADSL-Reseller ISP.

The difference between a SAIX-ADSL-Reseller ISP and Vodacom, is that Vodacom does need backhaul links which when factored in, will push the price up by quite a bit beyond that R45/GB.

That's correct. Some people on this forum however think that Vodacom only pays a fixed amount for bandwidth which is certainly not the case. Over and above the normal isp charges is the charges for the links but imho the per GB charge makes up the bulk of their cost and is therefor a reasonable base cost to work from.

Thanks for that I agree !!!!!!! It is scary how many people know anythings about PC's. Some cannot even find the power on switch.

True, I guess my point is that most people know just enough about pcs for it to be dangerous. As you said don't train them but provide enough education and support to help them avoid these mistakes. This is not unreasonable when buying a pc or taking out a contract that could petentially cripple you. And then there must be systems in place so that something like this can not happen by "accident".

 

[Csnoopy]

Prometheus said:

Sorry if this offends any of the tech out there but they aren't always the brightest lot and it's a long shot they will find anything if it's there. It's typical to get a response from them that an antenna won't boost your 3G signal/speed.

Who then in your apologetic opinion is the brightest lot that is capable of doing that kind of work.

Which category/group of people do you qualify as tech's out there ??

If a person is provided with the correct tools then anything is possible.
There is a 101 ways to find Malware. SP's should guard against this CAP/LOCK/BLOCK

 

[Prometheus]

Prometheus said:


Who then in your apologetic opinion is the brightest lot that is capable of doing that kind of work.

Which category/group of people do you qualify as tech's out there ??

If a person is provided with the correct tools then anything is possible.
There are a 101 ways to find Malware. SP's should guard against this CAP/LOCK/BLOCK

Like I said sorry if this offends anyone who does have the knowledge, but it has been my experience that the Vodashops don't know much of anything. If you get an answer that an antenna won't increase your signal reception it should speak volumes about their expertise. Sure there are the few exceptions to this but these are very few and wide apart and it's unlikely you will get one of these.

 

[Csnoopy]

There have to be companies out there that specialise in malware detection & removal - including rootkits, however I would not expect a cellular shop to have the necessary skills, besides scanning for malware can take one hell of a long time if the customer's notebook or PC [and HDD] are relatively slow - I have found that it is sometimes best to remove an infected HDD and mount it on a Linux box and use the tools in a forensic Linux distro - e.g Helix LiveCD, but one should still run some Windoze-based anti-malware s/w to be sure.

The time factor is a major issue - it can often be quicker to rescue the data & reinstall Windoze...

I normally take the suspect disk and scan it on a windoze pc with the necessary malware protection software. With a notebook hd it is not that simple.