Vodacom WiMax here early 2008

vodacom3g said:
When did Transtel/Eskom start building their respective networks?

Why do you think it was possible for Transtel/Eskom to lay thousands of Km's of fiber?
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@Prometheus, the answer to v3g's semi-rhetorical question there, is that Transtel & Eskom leveraged the railway network as well as electricity poles & pylons, i.e. the fibre optic cabling is above ground, whereas digging up roads & pavements is considerably more expensive and takes much longer.
 
Prometheus said:
I would say about two years now at most with the shareholders agreement finalised on 15th August 2005. This does appear to be a legitimate Neotel network and not Transtel or Eskom. The fibre purchased from Transnet last year only amounts to about 1300 km. So let's take it at 10,000km over 2 years. That's 417km in a month.
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ROFL :D.

That has to be your most deluded post to date, i.e. your facts are baseless and totally incorrect.
 
ic said:
ROFL :D.

That has to be your most deluded post to date, i.e. your facts are baseless and totally incorrect.
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If that is the case then what are the real facts. The 10,000km is in addition to the 1,300km that was bought from transnet. It's in many articles including one here. It's interesting that someone can disagree with this and not offer what they think the true 'facts' are. :rolleyes:
 
ic said:
That has to be your most deluded post to date, i.e. your facts are baseless and totally incorrect.
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Quite.

I think the first time I saw both their transmission networks was circa 1995. At that point they each had a massive transmission network and were already talking about the potential of connecting them together. Both were Newbridge, so it would have been a simple matter.

With one owning the rail-network and the other the power-grid, the one problem they never had was right-of-way.

These are the true facts. But then, of course, Prom would know better having built the Neotel network himself.
 
Infraco have taken over a large part of Eskoms network, that was meant to go to Neotel. I actually think a large part of the 10000km of fibre neotel talk about, is actually in Infraco's hands.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Infraco have taken over a large part of Eskoms network, that was meant to go to Neotel. I actually think a large part of the 10000km of fibre neotel talk about, is actually in Infraco's hands.
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Yup, if right-of-way is the big stumbling block to getting fiber in the ground (which it is), Neotel must have performed miracles to get 10 000Km of fiber in the ground in 2 years and I have to agree with Prom that they're super heroes and Vodacom is a bunch of amateurs to only get 23Km installed in a month.

On the other hand, if you get access to 2 networks who had near unlimited right-of-way (own rail and power networks), over many years, it's not so hot after all.
 
Yeah, tend to agree that considering Eskom and Transtel had very little issue with right of way and all that, then 10000kms is not so brilliant. I would have thought Eskoms network alone would be in the 10 - 20000km range, and transtels would have been fairly similarly sized.

Esp since I head rumours many years ago that Eskom were basically laying fibre with all the electrical stuff they were laying.. I may of course be wrong, but yeah..:)

Also for me, 23km in a month is a very decent effort, and I only see that figure accelerating as I'm guessing the planning dept is getting all the right permits etc etc as we speak.
 
Prometheus said:
If that is the case then what are the real facts. The 10,000km is in addition to the 1,300km that was bought from transnet. It's in many articles including one here. It's interesting that someone can disagree with this and not offer what they think the true 'facts' are. :rolleyes:
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You probably noticed that I had trouble posting at that time of the morning with several duplicate posts that I had to delete, so I was not in the mood for a long post debunking all of your misconceptions.

I recommend that you actually read the articles to which you tenuously cling, call it self-education, also if you're going to refer to an article or other source put the source text into a quote block and wrap it with a url so we can see what you're referring to and where you got it from.
ToxicBunny said:
Infraco have taken over a large part of Eskoms network, that was meant to go to Neotel. I actually think a large part of the 10000km of fibre neotel talk about, is actually in Infraco's hands.
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Yep, the guavamentalists screwed things up for NeeTel by backing out of a decision to sell the fibre optic cabling from Transtel & Eskom to NeeTel, and instead Alec Erwin hatched a plan to establish a state-owned [searchforum]"Broadband Infraco"[/searchforum] company which would lease bandwidth to NeeTel exclusively for 4 years.
 
According to Balancing Act and for purposes of comparison with other African countries, Ethiopia Telecom is laying around 1000km's of fibre per month.

We’ve converted much of what microwave to fibre. The backbone is now fibre and we’ve laid 4,000 kms of it in the last 4-5 months. The local community does the trenching in their own area.
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http://www.balancingact-africa.com/news/back/balancing-act_272.html
 
vodacom3g said:
Wow, the community actually putting transmission cabling INTO the ground!
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Not sure that the [apparently rural] local communities are laying the fibre optic cables - they might just be digging the trenches and waiting for the fibre optic cable to arrive and then covering it over after it has been laid.

Does make me wonder what would happen if Prometheus teamed up with [post=471413]captainwifi[/post] to dig trenches & lay their own fibre optic cabling...
 
I reckon they'd get flummoxed when there single strand of fibre didn't give them unlimited bandwidth, oh and they'd be claiming conspiracy when nobody would let them connect to the "internet" without paying them big bucket loads of money.. :)
 
ic said:
Not sure that the [apparently rural] local communities are laying the fibre optic cables - they might just be digging the trenches and waiting for the fibre optic cable to arrive and then covering it over after it has been laid.

Does make me wonder what would happen if Prometheus teamed up with [post=471413]captainwifi[/post] to dig trenches & lay their own fibre optic cabling...
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Just nice to hear people are helping to put cabling in, as opposed to taking it out.....
 
ToxicBunny said:
Infraco have taken over a large part of Eskoms network, that was meant to go to Neotel. I actually think a large part of the 10000km of fibre neotel talk about, is actually in Infraco's hands.
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Infraco has taken over nearly all of the network of Eskom and Transnet. That is not the network Neotel claims to have, this is their own network they are taking credit for in addition to the 1,300km they bought from Transnet. Then on top of that there's the Infraco network they can use. If anyone disagrees with this they should take it up with Neotel as this is the way it's reported in the media.

If we are to consider 23km a month as progress it would take them 36 years to reach 10,000km. No matter how long you think Neotel had to lay their fibre they still did it a lot faster.
ic said:
You probably noticed that I had trouble posting at that time of the morning with several duplicate posts that I had to delete, so I was not in the mood for a long post debunking all of your misconceptions.
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Sorry for that. The server in fact kept on saying that the request timed out and when I finally got the page there was only one post there. This is either a server problem or a Vodacom problem and don't ask me to prove it again because I don't know of any other possibilities.
I recommend that you actually read the articles to which you tenuously cling, call it self-education, also if you're going to refer to an article or other source put the source text into a quote block and wrap it with a url so we can see what you're referring to and where you got it from.
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assumptions, assumptions... :rolleyes: If someone wants to know where I get the information from they can just ask. I am not going to quote everything I consider public knowledge and there is nothing wrong in that.

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page82475?oid=171128&sn=Detail this is only one of the media reports and the MD is very ready to take credit for it.
Yotch said:
According to Balancing Act and for purposes of comparison with other African countries, Ethiopia Telecom is laying around 1000km's of fibre per month.



http://www.balancingact-africa.com/news/back/balancing-act_272.html
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That is interesting. So even Ethiopia is going faster than Vodacom. :)
 
What the media report and what is are not necessarily the same thing.. this you should know.

Where is your proof that the 10000kms of fibre they talk of is all theirs and not mostly Infraco's?

We know Infraco have signed a 4yr exclusivity contract with Neotel, so they more than likely are claiming Infraco's fibre as their "own".

23km in the first month of rolling out is a fairly decent effort in this day and age for a company that doesn't have right of way and that has to negotiate and request these kind of things from our inefficient guavamint.


The backbone of Neotel’s network consists of many thousands of kilometres of optical fibre cable following railway lines and power lines across South Africa. Eskom and Transtel developed and patented techniques that led to the deployment of the fibre used by Neotel, which is either wrapped around to the wires or within the wires of power lines, suspended along the electrical masts of railway lines, or directly buried alongside the lines.
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That is directly from Neotel's site. Its safe to assume they're talking about the network they got from Transtel, and the backbone they're using of Infraco's.
 
One thing that is unclear, for example when Telkodemonopolies says it has 170000km of fibre optic cabling throughout SA, is whether the length is calculated according to the combined length of individual fibre optic strands or whether multiple fibre optic strands are counted as a single length of fibre optic cabling - it would be nice to know which it is.

It would also be nice to know exactly what percentage of that 170000km of fibre optic cabling, is being rented by the cellular network operators, from Telkodemonopolies, my guess is that it would be a large percentage.
vodacom3g said:
Just nice to hear people are helping to put cabling in, as opposed to taking it out.....
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True, unfortunately not in SA where cable theft seems to be the disorder of each day, especially copper cabling, but it seems fibre optic cabling also gets targeted in SA for theft - even though there is supposed to be little value in selling stolen fibre optic that has been ripped out of the ground - even NeeTel is allegedly suffering from this although I haven't seen any news articles specifically about this.
 
ToxicBunny said:
The backbone of Neotel’s network consists of many thousands of kilometres of optical fibre cable following railway lines and power lines across South Africa. Eskom and Transtel developed and patented techniques that led to the deployment of the fibre used by Neotel, which is either wrapped around to the wires or within the wires of power lines, suspended along the electrical masts of railway lines, or directly buried alongside the lines.
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I noticed Prom quoted this same page in one of his previous posts (http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=1348171&postcount=26) but kinda forgot to actually read it....:rolleyes:

So, according to Prom, Neotel have built their own, duplicate network alongside the Infraco (ex Transtel/Eskom) network, using the same rail and power lines for right-of-way. Wow, now we've got 2 x 10000Km of fiber along these routes.
 
Yeah I noticed that as well.... oh well.

Do we have to mention that DWDM is not exactly a new technology either.... And I'm sure the Telscum and Vodacom are both making use of DWDM.

I also wonder how much rail Transnet put down, and how much Transmission lines Eskom laid... cos 10000km's sounds WAY to short to me...

I reckon guavamint is shafting Neotel all over again.
 
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