Voortrekker Monument.

[Darth Garth]

Ever see the cartoon "Pinky and the Brain" in South Africa?

Yeah.

 

[antowan]

Sipho is definately connecting from Europe.... No evidence he is a troll...

 

[antowan]

I was at the monument on the 16th for the service there. It is an extremely beautiful building. I don't know why anybody would call it a monstrosity. Perhaps judging from the outside and from a distance. Close up it is a beautiful building.

I doubt the Monument will last another 2 or so centuries. The way the government seems to be (according to my limited knowledge) arranging the way it is taken care of, is left mostly to the community. So far so good, but if the people taking care of it run thin for a couple of decades it will fall into disrepair easily. The structure is virtually indestructible, but the finer details are sensitive to vandalism and theft. I doubt this government feels anything for the monument. If it is however actively neglected, it could well be judged in the same light as the monuments in Afghanistan being destroyed...

 

[Darth Garth]

I doubt this government feels anything for the monument.

The government is building a vast new heritage site just next door to the Voortrekker Monument. Spanning 129 acres and expected to cost around $50 million, the high-tech heritage site is called Freedom Park.

By far, the loudest challenges being raised are to Freedom Park’s unabashedly Africanist point of view, and leading that charge are Afrikaners. As Opperman puts it, “There are many Afrikaners who feel marginalized, who feel their heritage and culture is being neglected, vandalized, stolen. And there is an outcry that something must be done about it. But we don’t have a choice.”

Afrikaners will have a choice about whether or not to visit Freedom Park, and Serote isn’t optimistic about the prospects. “I am sure for some time there will be a serious problem with Afrikaner attendance,” he says. “It’s not nice to be told that you did terrible wrong. But I am more hopeful about their children.”

Serote has met with Opperman to discuss ways in which they can cooperate. So far, that has led to a decision to build a road linking the Voortrekker Monument and Freedom Park. Serote adds that the meetings have also enlightened him about Afrikaner feelings. “I sat down with General Opperman and suddenly realized I had no inkling of the meaning of the Anglo-Boer war for Afrikaners,” he explains. “And the pain is very deep. I now have a personal understanding of that pain, because I want them to have a personal understanding of my pain.”

http://www.carnegie.org/reporter/08/southafrica/index2.html

 

[IamCanadian]

The government is building a vast new heritage site just next door to the Voortrekker Monument. Spanning 129 acres and expected to cost around $50 million, the high-tech heritage site is called Freedom Park.

By far, the loudest challenges being raised are to Freedom Park’s unabashedly Africanist point of view, and leading that charge are Afrikaners. As Opperman puts it, “There are many Afrikaners who feel marginalized, who feel their heritage and culture is being neglected, vandalized, stolen. And there is an outcry that something must be done about it. But we don’t have a choice.”

Afrikaners will have a choice about whether or not to visit Freedom Park, and Serote isn’t optimistic about the prospects. “I am sure for some time there will be a serious problem with Afrikaner attendance,” he says. “It’s not nice to be told that you did terrible wrong. But I am more hopeful about their children.”

Serote has met with Opperman to discuss ways in which they can cooperate. So far, that has led to a decision to build a road linking the Voortrekker Monument and Freedom Park. Serote adds that the meetings have also enlightened him about Afrikaner feelings. “I sat down with General Opperman and suddenly realized I had no inkling of the meaning of the Anglo-Boer war for Afrikaners,” he explains. “And the pain is very deep. I now have a personal understanding of that pain, because I want them to have a personal understanding of my pain.”

http://www.carnegie.org/reporter/08/southafrica/index2.html

There will be no more "Great Treks". If the Voortrekker Monument is not supported and cared for by the ANC then what happens?

Does the monument represent the majority?

This question will likely be answered in the future, probably when most of us here are long gone from the earth.

 

[Darth Garth]

If the Voortrekker Monument is not supported and cared for by the ANC then what happens?

The monument is run and managed by a Section 21 not for profit company with the following folks on it's board

Die Afrikaanse Taal- en Kultuurvereniging
Die Afrikanerbond
The Freedom Front
Die Federasie van Afrikaanse Kultuurverenigings
Die Rapportryersbeweging, including the "Junior Rapportryers"
Die Suid-Afrikaanse Vrouefederasie
Die Voortrekkers

http://www.voortrekkermon.org.za/

On their website you will note the following

Ondersteun deur die Departement van Kuns en Kultuur / Supported by the Department of Arts and Culture

Water Proofing Project supported by the National Lotteries Fund / Waterdigtingsprojek ondersteun deur die Nasionale Loterye Fonds

So hopefully this will clarify the issue and the unfound rumour mongering can stop.

 

[diabolus]

“It’s not nice to be told that you did terrible wrong. But I am more hopeful about their children.”

While the children is continuously punished for it [AA/BEE], that will NEVER happen. I mean white kids coming out of matric who were in the same school as the black kid [NO disadvantage there for anyone] are still punished for the sins of their fathers...how on bloody earth is this dude expecting the children to change?

I think alot of white afrikaners growing up in the last 12 years are growing up with a LOT of anger and frustration...matter of time before a new generation "snaps" .

Anyway as for freedom park and voortrekker monument. I can't care less about freedom park and where they build it. They already excluded white south african soldiers who fought on the border [angola etc] from that park, so it's already as some call it "ANC-park" .

As long as they leave the Voortrekker Monument alone, they can have their party at freedom park and the afrikaner can hold their party at Voortrekker monument. Hopefully they don't even build that road through...it's like opening some sort of crime/vandalist wave when the govt. decides it's more important to rename cities and stops to care for their freedom park and it fall into disrepair [as with all things the govt starts].

 

[Vrotappel]

Warner,we dont need to bang our heads. I am peace-loving. No to voilence.
There are many still SA towns with non-African names. The have not changed, yet.
But there are only 1 Voortreker monument left. So why take it away?

I am AFRICAN. But I call you non-African. There is not anything bad about that,is there.
Like a item from shop, it is for example refundable. And you get non-refindable items. Does not mean that one or the other,, is bad.

Africans come from many centuries ago. Non-africans not.But there is no problem, we are fine with that.

Peace!
Hamba kahle!
Siphoweni Makuphula-Mpazi

Can you actually trace back from where you came? My family has been here for longer than 300 years and I can prove it.

 

[Nod]

Can you actually trace back from where you came? My family has been here for longer than 300 years and I can prove it.

My family landed in the Cape in 1718. Almost 300 years.

 

[ToxicBunny]

That is an interesting point, I can trace my family back nearly 500 years. (had an anal aunt who made it her mission to build the family tree). Granted my family has only been in this country since 1820, but still I do wonder how many "africans" can trace their heritage back more than a few generations.

I am not trying to be mean or racist, I just have never met any africans who worry about their family tree in the way us "non-Africans" do.

 

[Bageloo]

That is an interesting point, I can trace my family back nearly 500 years. (had an anal aunt who made it her mission to build the family tree). Granted my family has only been in this country since 1820, but still I do wonder how many "africans" can trace their heritage back more than a few generations.

I am not trying to be mean or racist, I just have never met any africans who worry about their family tree in the way us "non-Africans" do.

Correction there, the Africans have a much simpler way of tracing their families, it's called the clan name. .

 

[Nod]

Correction there, the Africans have a much simpler way of tracing their families, it's called the clan name. .

Thats interesting. Where can I read up on these clans?

 

[Xarog]

Warner,we dont need to bang our heads. I am peace-loving. No to voilence.
There are many still SA towns with non-African names. The have not changed, yet.
But there are only 1 Voortreker monument left. So why take it away?

I am AFRICAN. But I call you non-African. There is not anything bad about that,is there.
Like a item from shop, it is for example refundable. And you get non-refindable items. Does not mean that one or the other,, is bad.

Africans come from many centuries ago. Non-africans not.But there is no problem, we are fine with that.

That I call you non-African is not racist. And more reason: in SA Census data of 1996/2001, SA populaton is classify into the following races:
AFRICAN
WHITE
COLOURED
INDIAN

This is official classificate. You may research itself if you donot believe.

So, WHITE, COLOURED and INDIAN is NON_AFRICAN because it is not African.

Please, believe I do not want to spawn hatred. I have positiave approach.
But it is also approach of SA Census statistic. Not just me use that.
Also, many other refer so.

What does it matter? Please forget. We can talk good things!

Well I have news 4 u. FIFA will refer to dark skin Africa inhabitants as Africans, and to the others as whites, colourds, and so forths. I deal with these people every day here, all the comissions and media. The same for all other Germans. It will get even more,building up to 2010.Not to mention of all the Africans I know in SA that have professionl job like me, who do not call the other races African.

The point I make is that for what ever reason you give as why all races in SA are African, their recogniton and usage are getting less and less. In SA, and overseas.

Your reasons are thus, losing strength slowly. NUmbers count. More and more poeple use the term whites, colourds or indians, OR non-Africans.

If you do not believe, wait and see in less than 4 years's time!

Accept it.

I only tell the truth. I do not cause trouble. You ask for explain, and I eplain.

That is all........... Sipho

Your definitions and standards are arbitrary. According to you the names we give to the various groups is inconsequential. But the problem is that some people like to label white people as 'europeans', and then tell them to get lost or go back to europe, suggesting that white people don't have a right to live here just like everyone else.

You point to FIFA, to the SA Census and so on as if to give your claim credence, but who decided FIFA or the SA Census was an authority on whether or not someone is an African? They don't. FIFA is just a fricken soccer club for vark sakes.

Anyone born in a country or continent is inherently part of that country or continent. We are all South Africans. We are all Africans, too, even if our heritage may come from different parts of the world. By the standard you claim that you are African, however, one could use it against you to claim that you are not South African, unless you happen to be San or Khoisan - the reason being that all the other tribes came to S.A. from Northern Africa.

 

[edc]

majority rules, all countries (ignoring south-africa for now) clasify my white ass as an african. therefore, i am african, i'm not german or english.

i sometimes wish an official anti-white polity, not a sugar coated afirmitive action or reformation policy will be written into our laws. that way we can get our white skin away from this harsh south-african heat through refugee status. i want to leave this ****hole, this country which does not repect me as a person or anything my father or grandfather did here. without us south-africa would be in cival war, one tribe killing another, like kenya, rwanda and so forth? do you prefer that?

sipho, 4% of south-africans pay tax, 90% are white, throw us out of the country, make us so unhappy that we all leave, soon south-africa will be like zimbabwe or kenya. south-africa needs our skills, even though we came to our skills through oppression.

futhermore, the anc has improved the lives of its supporters by 50%, that is great, the DA wouldve improved it by 200%. if the afrikaaners didnt fight for independace we wouldve been ruled by the british, we might have been a similar success like hong kong is now. our lives woulve been 1000% better. some people can govern, others should not.

now for potch, when russia or most european countries changed from one oppresive dictatorship to another,see soviet union history, or even vikings who conquered much of england, they did not change the names of places, only when a defining event occured right there, which changed history. those people had a *real* sense of pride, regardless of names. those were great men.

then why do whites fight for the simple name potch? since we are feeling threatened by such actions, its the first step towards full scale violance against white people. we are increasingly under threat, and we have to defend ourselves.

another example, kids write their names on school desks, when they have identify problems, issues, no sense of who they are, when they dont have any pride in themselves, when they dont respect others or themselves.
that is much like the anc and the supporters of the name changes, you can write your name into a south-african map, call it tlokwe, but it will mean nothing, what was established there was *not* built by people calling it tlokwe, if you had any hand in developing potch, you will call it for what it is, potch.

 

[Skeptik]

The government is building a vast new heritage site just next door to the Voortrekker Monument. Spanning 129 acres and expected to cost around $50 million, the high-tech heritage site is called Freedom Park.

By far, the loudest challenges being raised are to Freedom Park’s unabashedly Africanist point of view, and leading that charge are Afrikaners. As Opperman puts it, “There are many Afrikaners who feel marginalized, who feel their heritage and culture is being neglected, vandalized, stolen. And there is an outcry that something must be done about it. But we don’t have a choice.”

*ANC think tank overheard* ---
Cadre1: "We hate that infernal Voortrekker Monument built by the Boers, what should we do?".
Cadre2: "Lets build our own - let's build it bigger and put it next door so when they visit theirs they will see OURS is better!"

Just like children in a sandpit hey?

Oh, and the $50,000,000 expenditure on this white elephant is predicted to double by the time it is finished!!

 

[edc]

in real battles, not elections, which involved blood, tears and death, my ancestors conquared this country and took it as their own, it was their mistake to share it with the inhabitants rather than to kill all of them, or was it compassion and mercy, humanity and respect? currently the actions by the anc and its supporters, those who do not make any space for white people, are biting the hand- which allowed it to live and come into existance. i want the anc to respect me, i want to feel safe and secure in this country too.

if you ever had compassion on anything, in a much weaker position than yourself, you would understand and feel, deeply in your heart, the true meaning of what i said. if you did not, then i don't want to call you a human, nevermind african.

 

[IamCanadian]

Oh, and the $50,000,000 expenditure on this white elephant is predicted to double by the time it is finished!!

And where is this money ultimately coming from?

$50,000,000 is a lot of tax payers money coming from a relative few.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Actually no..... the international community sees me as South African, klaar end of story... They do not care abot my race. I just come from the country South Africa and that therefore makes me South African. And somehow I doubt YOU are the majority of SA. The majority of SA is considerably more intelligent and less irritating than you, and they'd probably be ashamed to be represented by you.

 

[edc]

sipho, if you are a diplomat, you should be fluent in languages, able to communicate well and so forth. are you a professional? i'm an accountant, if i spell civil as cival, it does not detract from my message. you can't spell, begging the question, did you earn a matric certificate? i say earn since you possibly bought it. tell us who you are so we can know which "diplomat" is promoting racial devide even in europe?

an addendum, the karoo bushmen were the first natives in south-africa, the black tribes weren't. therefore nobody but they have any right to this country, following your method of reasoning.

sipho, i want you to answer my posts, respond directly to what i said. answer me like you would in your offcial capacity. i believe your answer will be very poor, i believe the people you interact with in europe laugh and mock your lack of professionalism, your arrogance and pride. our diplomats often shame us in foreign countries, you are doing the same.

 

[jontyB]

Sipho probably brings the real diplomat his coffee.