Vox Telecom Fatpipe

Using Xbox360 built in network test tool I get 320ms ping on average. Is this within acceptable parameters? Not a gamer (with the exception of a bit on Xbox) so not really sure.
 
sand_man said:
Using Xbox360 built in network test tool I get 320ms ping on average. Is this within acceptable parameters? Not a gamer (with the exception of a bit on Xbox) so not really sure.
Click to expand...

320ms is usually what I get for either a South American server, or the North end of Europe. If it's a local server, it's usually 5-60ms. So, it depends on the server you are connecting to.

As I said, for connecting to Europe, that's pretty normal.
 
cvanwie said:
Running late ... Can't find the original post quick enough.

A change has been made as up 4:10pm where things in Cape Town should be better. Let me know if you run into the same issues.

Guys, PING is not going to give you a real representation of what you are wanting to do because of how things are prioritized on our network. Ping is not, nor will be.
Click to expand...
Unshaped data is not supposed to have prioritisation.
 
I have been unaware of this.

I was under the impression that Fat Pipe data was unshaped.

I see now that it is definitely shaped - and only fat pipe business is unshaped.

Did this change - or was it always like this?
 
requiem said:
I have been unaware of this.

I was under the impression that Fat Pipe data was unshaped.

I see now that it is definitely shaped - and only fat pipe business is unshaped.

Did this change - or was it always like this?
Click to expand...

Looked in detail now. They claim it is unshaped, but reserve the right to shape.

So the bad performing torrents and p2p gaming I have been having has been shaping.

I wish they would be more open about what they are shaping - cvanwie comments earlier about prioritisation shows they are actively shaping, but not being very open about it.
 
Just did a speed test now at 6:40pm, things appear to be fine [low ping, i get my full line speed again]


4677068706.png

For those that torrent - would you not rather use a service like www.grabitjeeves.com? Then you aren't on the torrent network yourself, and you just do a HTTP download from grabitjeeves. You will save data too.
 
whatever_sa said:
Just did a speed test now at 6:40pm, things appear to be fine [low ping, i get my full line speed again]


View attachment 298350

For those that torrent - would you not rather use a service like www.grabitjeeves.com? Then you aren't on the torrent network yourself, and you just do a HTTP download from grabitjeeves. You will save data too.
Click to expand...
Speedtest shows you very little apart from browsing performance.
 
thought it was Vox isp that gave me bad connections ,thunder screwed my line somehow

telkom fixed it today and streaming and gaming is flawless
Grade giving = A
 
requiem said:
Looked in detail now. They claim it is unshaped, but reserve the right to shape.

So the bad performing torrents and p2p gaming I have been having has been shaping.

I wish they would be more open about what they are shaping - cvanwie comments earlier about prioritisation shows they are actively shaping, but not being very open about it.
Click to expand...

Shaping is the dropping of packets in a policing mannerism or queuing packets for transmission in a weighted method.
Unshaped means that neither of the above occurs.
Rate limiting means that packets are sent across the network at a maximum speed; for instance the Bolt On is rate limited to 10Mbps

If a network congests, things get dropped. That's a reality. When a glass is full of water you can't put more water in, can you? The excess falls away.

CPT had hit congestion where this bad performance was visible. JHB has not hit any congestion for quite a while. If you're having a bad experience, it's not solely our fault. There are many moving pieces in the internet machine, please keep that in mind.

-Chris
 
djbrendan said:
thought it was Vox isp that gave me bad connections ,thunder screwed my line somehow

telkom fixed it today and streaming and gaming is flawless
Grade giving = A
Click to expand...

I would imagine it was more likely rain and lightning which caused a problem... =)
 
cvanwie said:
Shaping is the dropping of packets in a policing mannerism or queuing packets for transmission in a weighted method.
Unshaped means that neither of the above occurs.
Rate limiting means that packets are sent across the network at a maximum speed; for instance the Bolt On is rate limited to 10Mbps

If a network congests, things get dropped. That's a reality. When a glass is full of water you can't put more water in, can you? The excess falls away.

CPT had hit congestion where this bad performance was visible. JHB has not hit any congestion for quite a while. If you're having a bad experience, it's not solely our fault. There are many moving pieces in the internet machine, please keep that in mind.

-Chris
Click to expand...

I do keep that in mind.

I've spent extensive time with your support staff, the fault has been clearly identified on your network.

Their response - "Adsl is a best effort service - we won't do anything about this".


The realisation that p2p traffic getting worse is due to shaping on an unshaped service is what bothers me.

I'm not complaining about contention.
 
requiem said:
I do keep that in mind.

I've spent extensive time with your support staff, the fault has been clearly identified on your network.

Their response - "Adsl is a best effort service - we won't do anything about this".


The realisation that p2p traffic getting worse is due to shaping on an unshaped service is what bothers me.

I'm not complaining about contention.
Click to expand...

http://www.webafrica.co.za/business/adsl/pro/
 
requiem said:
I do keep that in mind.

I've spent extensive time with your support staff, the fault has been clearly identified on your network.

Their response - "Adsl is a best effort service - we won't do anything about this".


The realisation that p2p traffic getting worse is due to shaping on an unshaped service is what bothers me.

I'm not complaining about contention.
Click to expand...

You are stating something which is not true. There is no shaping on the Fatpipe service. I manage the subscriber management platform and know exactly what and how things are done on this network. We work extremely hard to ensure that our customers get the very best experience as possible; and when untrue things are thrown around, it really sours all the hard work we do.

I've just checked all of our IPC's and the average availability of capacity is 17.25% which means that we have 17.25% MORE capacity than our customers are pushing across our network. Because of this availability, if you're experiencing slowness or what seems to be "shaping" it's not from our equipment on our network. It could be your line quality, the exchange that you're connecting to, the content delivery you are pulling from; but it certainly isn't us.

Our support staff do not have the intricate knowledge of the network configuration down to the core and PE devices, let alone the inner workings of the subscriber management platform. When issues arise there are debug routines that they field and escalate to myself and or the network ops team.

I assure you, we know exactly what faults there are and work tirelessly fixing faults that we find and or which are raised to us.

I cannot give you a different answer. If you wish to point a finger at us and claim something, please do so but realize that you're not correct in this scenario.

-Chris
 
cvanwie said:
You are stating something which is not true. There is no shaping on the Fatpipe service. I manage the subscriber management platform and know exactly what and how things are done on this network. We work extremely hard to ensure that our customers get the very best experience as possible; and when untrue things are thrown around, it really sours all the hard work we do.

I've just checked all of our IPC's and the average availability of capacity is 17.25% which means that we have 17.25% MORE capacity than our customers are pushing across our network. Because of this availability, if you're experiencing slowness or what seems to be "shaping" it's not from our equipment on our network. It could be your line quality, the exchange that you're connecting to, the content delivery you are pulling from; but it certainly isn't us.

Our support staff do not have the intricate knowledge of the network configuration down to the core and PE devices, let alone the inner workings of the subscriber management platform. When issues arise there are debug routines that they field and escalate to myself and or the network ops team.

I assure you, we know exactly what faults there are and work tirelessly fixing faults that we find and or which are raised to us.

I cannot give you a different answer. If you wish to point a finger at us and claim something, please do so but realize that you're not correct in this scenario.

-Chris
Click to expand...

Let's start. Your homepage says the service is not shaped. Your terms and conditions state you reserve the right to shape.

I was downloading a torrent - could get max 700kBps on your service. Loaded webafrica got full 20mbps.

Back on Vox - tried a NZB - 20mbps. Tried torrent 700kBps.

I understood this to be shaping.

You can claim I am not correct - I am sharing my experience of using the network.

your service department told me the 4th hop on your network that was slowing down and dropping packets (nothing to do with my line) - is unlikely to be fixed.

I accept it is possible you are not shaping and the apparent slowdown of P2P services is co-incidental. My bad attitude is due to the dismissive nature from your support staff when trying to work with them to figure out where the problem is.
 
requiem said:
Let's start. Your homepage says the service is not shaped. Your terms and conditions state you reserve the right to shape.

I was downloading a torrent - could get max 700kBps on your service. Loaded webafrica got full 20mbps.

Back on Vox - tried a NZB - 20mbps. Tried torrent 700kBps.

I understood this to be shaping.

You can claim I am not correct - I am sharing my experience of using the network.

your service department told me the 4th hop on your network that was slowing down and dropping packets (nothing to do with my line) - is unlikely to be fixed.

I accept it is possible you are not shaping and the apparent slowdown of P2P services is co-incidental. My bad attitude is due to the dismissive nature from your support staff when trying to work with them to figure out where the problem is.
Click to expand...

Now that's some very interesting information! I completely understand the frustration that you are experiencing. Let's see if we can't figure out where/what is causing this grief.

Send me your DSL username, I'd like to check the configuration and ensure that it's provisioned correctly. Following that, include a trace route, I'd like to see this 4th hop. If it's Google peering ... there's nothing we can control there. If it's our network, I cannot see why we couldn't fix a problem, we fix lots of things.

Your move, I'd like to help sort this out. I'll be up another 20 minutes or so. Kind of tired working on a new product ;)

EDIT:

Where are you fetching the NZB from versus the Torrent? Is one local and the other overseas? Is your NZB using TCP where as your Torrent might be using UDP?

Which NZB host:
Which Torrent client:
Which protocol is your torrent client using: UDP/TCP

It's late, I haven't heard from you yet. Send me a private message with the details as requested please, I'll have a look tomorrow sometime otherwise on Monday.
 
Last edited:
cvanwie said:
Now that's some very interesting information! I completely understand the frustration that you are experiencing. Let's see if we can't figure out where/what is causing this grief.

Send me your DSL username, I'd like to check the configuration and ensure that it's provisioned correctly. Following that, include a trace route, I'd like to see this 4th hop. If it's Google peering ... there's nothing we can control there. If it's our network, I cannot see why we couldn't fix a problem, we fix lots of things.

Your move, I'd like to help sort this out. I'll be up another 20 minutes or so. Kind of tired working on a new product ;)

EDIT:

Where are you fetching the NZB from versus the Torrent? Is one local and the other overseas? Is your NZB using TCP where as your Torrent might be using UDP?

Which NZB host:
Which Torrent client:
Which protocol is your torrent client using: UDP/TCP

It's late, I haven't heard from you yet. Send me a private message with the details as requested please, I'll have a look tomorrow sometime otherwise on Monday.
Click to expand...

Apologies. Was not at my computer. Will gladly work with you to try resolve this.

The torrent was a movie download using Kickass Torrent.

NZB is through astraweb (international).

None of it was local.

The 4th hop (or 3rd or 5th).


A few traceroutes below


C:\Users\Requiem>tracert www.google.co.za

Tracing route to www.google.co.za [216.58.223.35]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 11 ms 12 ms 6 ms dsl-197-245-122-1.voxdsl.co.za [197.245.122.1]
3 9 ms 8 ms 11 ms 41.193.164.85
4 8 ms 8 ms 74 ms 41.193.164.86
 5 9 ms 8 ms 8 ms 41.193.164.92
6 9 ms 9 ms 8 ms 41.193.119.13
7 9 ms 9 ms 10 ms 41.193.119.38
8 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 72.14.220.136
9 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 72.14.239.129
10 11 ms 9 ms 9 ms jnb01s08-in-f35.1e100.net [216.58.223.35]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\Requiem>


Tracing route to lan-linux-01.hc8.voxcore.co.za [41.193.5.52]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms dsl-197-245-122-1.voxdsl.co.za [197.245.122.1]
3 9 ms 8 ms 9 ms 41.193.164.85
4 8 ms 8 ms 9 ms 41.193.164.86
5 33 ms 31 ms 9 ms 41.193.164.92
 6 9 ms 8 ms 9 ms 41.193.119.13
7 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 41.193.32.201
8 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 41.193.32.154
9 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 196.41.199.218
10 10 ms 9 ms 12 ms lan-linux-01.hc8.voxcore.co.za [41.193.5.52]

Trace complete.

Tracing route to yahoo.com [98.138.253.109]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 7 ms 7 ms 6 ms dsl-197-245-122-1.voxdsl.co.za [197.245.122.1]
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 31 ms 8 ms 8 ms 41.193.164.86
 5 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms 41.193.164.92
6 9 ms 15 ms 9 ms 41.193.119.13
7 27 ms 27 ms 27 ms 41.193.119.50
8 194 ms 194 ms 197 ms 196.41.24.174
9 195 ms 194 ms 195 ms xe-10-2-2.edge4.London1.Level3.net [195.50.120.13]
10 283 ms 283 ms 284 ms ae-3-3503.edge4.Chicago3.Level3.net [4.69.203.138]
11 296 ms 284 ms 290 ms YAHOO-INC.edge4.Chicago3.Level3.net [4.53.98.50]
12 302 ms 303 ms 301 ms ae-5.pat1.nez.yahoo.com [216.115.96.76]
13 339 ms 310 ms 315 ms UNKNOWN-216-115-105-X.yahoo.com [216.115.105.185]
14 303 ms 304 ms 321 ms UNKNOWN-98-138-97-X.yahoo.com [98.138.97.73]
15 302 ms 301 ms 302 ms et-17-1.fab3-1-gdc.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.0.77]
16 309 ms 302 ms 302 ms po-15.bas1-7-prd.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.240.16]
17 301 ms 301 ms 301 ms ir1.fp.vip.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.253.109]


The problem is intermitent. But on those hops there are periodically large ping spikes.


Running Pingplotter, it sometimes goes up to 500 ms (When the problem occurs - not constant - and intensity varies).

Then usually there is some packet loss. After a while it stabalises, but then for a while the ping spikes will remain.

Tracert below using WA for the same three sites.

Tracing route to lan-linux-01.hc8.voxcore.co.za [41.193.5.52]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms 196-210-102-1.dynamic.isadsl.co.za [196.210.102.1]
2 9 ms 8 ms 10 ms 196.38.73.113
3 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms cdsl2-rba-vl150.ip.isnet.net [196.38.73.9]
4 12 ms 10 ms 11 ms core2-pkl-t0-7-0-0.ip.isnet.net [168.209.1.163]
5 13 ms 12 ms 9 ms 196.26.0.130
6 9 ms 8 ms 10 ms 196.33.97.10
7 25 ms 26 ms 9 ms 41.193.32.129
8 9 ms 12 ms 10 ms 41.193.32.134
9 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 196.41.199.218
10 33 ms 9 ms 11 ms lan-linux-01.hc8.voxcore.co.za [41.193.5.52]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\Requiem>



C:\Users\Requiem>tracert www.google.co.za

Tracing route to www.google.co.za [196.23.168.166]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms 196-210-102-1.dynamic.isadsl.co.za [196.210.102.1]
2 22 ms 20 ms 10 ms cdsl1-rba-vl2460.ip.isnet.net [196.38.72.217]
3 11 ms 8 ms 8 ms cdsl1-rba-vl150.ip.isnet.net [196.38.73.17]
4 14 ms 11 ms 10 ms core1-pkl-tg0-7-0-0.ip.isnet.net [168.209.1.162]
5 12 ms 11 ms 9 ms csw5-pkl-tg2-7.ip.isnet.net [168.209.1.188]
6 9 ms 8 ms 8 ms 196.23.168.166

Trace complete.



Tracing route to yahoo.com [206.190.36.45]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 7 ms 7 ms 6 ms 196-210-102-1.dynamic.isadsl.co.za [196.210.102.1]
2 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms 196.38.73.113
3 8 ms 8 ms 9 ms cdsl2-rba-vl150.ip.isnet.net [196.38.73.9]
4 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms core2b-pkl-te0-0-0-0.ip.isnet.net [196.26.0.63]
5 194 ms 195 ms 194 ms 168.209.0.239
6 194 ms 182 ms 186 ms ge-1-1-0.pat1.the.yahoo.com [195.66.224.129]
7 264 ms 268 ms 264 ms ae8.pat2.nyc.yahoo.com [66.196.65.15]
8 283 ms 267 ms 260 ms ae-9.pat2.dce.yahoo.com [216.115.100.92]
9 292 ms 291 ms 292 ms ae-4.pat2.che.yahoo.com [216.115.101.145]
10 325 ms 313 ms 312 ms ae-5.pat2.dnx.yahoo.com [216.115.96.55]
11 336 ms 334 ms 341 ms ae-8.pat1.gqb.yahoo.com [216.115.96.122]
12 340 ms 332 ms 339 ms et-0-0-0.msr2.gq1.yahoo.com [66.196.67.109]
13 349 ms 349 ms 350 ms et-1-0-0.clr1-a-gdc.gq1.yahoo.com [67.195.37.93]
14 340 ms 336 ms 340 ms et-17-1.fab2-1-gdc.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.31.168]
15 341 ms 341 ms 333 ms po-10.bas2-7-prd.gq1.yahoo.com [206.190.32.31]
16 336 ms 340 ms 339 ms ir1.fp.vip.gq1.yahoo.com [206.190.36.45]
 
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