jannievanzyl
Telecoms expert
How many would you need?
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All I know is that normal short calls are compressed to less than 5KB in file size and South Africa is using the same technology the US is using. But, for arguments sake, let's say all calls average 5KB on your example.
This would mean that SA Government can record about 214 748 365 phone calls and store them all on a single 1 TB hard disk.
I do not have call statistics, but do you think such operations only have a single 1 TB hard drive?
Now, if you can give me the average number of calls in SA per day, I can tell you how many hard drives they will need to store the data on....
jannievanzyl
Telecoms expert
Really? Please show the maths.
There is no maths.
I have seen these recordings, had them in my possession, played them in trials before. I am specifically referring to one such recording - just over an hour and the file size was 69.9KB.
The problem is, you can not play them on just any PC, you need a specific codec loaded which is only available to law enforcement, which comes from the US.
So, I know for a fact that this technology exists and it is being used.
Besides all of this, I think the most important thing here is that people should know that they do not have any privacy when using phone - landlines or mobile phones. There is nothing wrong with using phones, but realize that there may be someone snooping in and listening to your conversations. That is all I have been saying all along.
I have no problem with government listening to my phone calls. I know why they are doing it. I just hate everyone covering up and saying that it is not being done at all.
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jannievanzyl
Telecoms expert
This is what worries me about your posts. When you suspend logic and science for "I'm telling you, so you must believe me."
I suggest you get a calculator or Excel and learn how to use it. You are out by at least an order of magnitude with even the best codecs available to the super spies.
But, then again, alien technology is often only available to *special* people.
BTW, I just did the calculation on how much storage space is required to do all SA calls for a year. What number do you get? And I got all the data in published reports, took me 10 minutes.
I'm sure you know how to Google?
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Ah well, if you still are saying Vodafone (http://www.theguardian.com/business...eals-secret-wires-allowing-state-surveillance) is lying to the world, then so be it...
jannievanzyl
Telecoms expert
Don't try and deflect. Poor attempt.
I asked you about your statement that 'all calls in South Africa are being recorded'.
You really don't know how to get publicly available data and do a few simple calculations?
Or do you not understand the difference between intercepting specific calls and recording ALL calls?
Don't try and deflect. Poor attempt.
I asked you about your statement that 'all calls in South Africa are being recorded'.
You really don't know how to get publicly available data and do a few simple calculations?
Or do you not understand the difference between intercepting specific calls and recording ALL calls?
Let me rather ask you this, with intelligence agencies being connected to your system, do you know what technologies they are using in intercepting and recording the calls of your users?
Also, recording all calls on your network and storing the data for x-amount of time will really not be such a *huge* technological bother or issue as you make it appears to be.
Besides, one last issue, do you really think intelligence agencies have the means to identify risks or apply for court orders to intercept and monitor thousands of 'specific' calls every day? No. That is why they are directly linked. That is also the reason why calls are recorded and monitored randomly. Also the reason why only certain calls are monitored in real time.
jannievanzyl
Telecoms expert
You're still trying to deflect and not answer the question. Why?
The fact that they are directly connected (or not) is irrelevant to the question on the storage and processing capacity required.
And while we're at it, how big must the link be between the networks and the spooks to carry all the voice in real time to be recorded? Sorry, but it's another of those pesky *logical* questions that can be calculated and commented on.
So, you made the statement that all South African calls are recorded. But it seems you've never thought about the topic at any level other than your Orwellian views on government?
Let me summarise my questions on your statement:
To "record ALL South African calls: (your statement), how much:
1. Storage
2. CPU
3. Network
capacity is required?
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Office for Interception Centres (OIC)
On 03 February 2010 the Committee visited the OIC. The Committee received a presentation on interceptions from the Director, Adv Koopedi.
In the three and half years that OIC has been established, three million interceptions were done. The clients of OIC are prescribed by the Regulation of Interception of Communications and Provision of Communication-Related Information Act (RICA), not by OIC. South African Police Services is the biggest client and this is reflected in the amount of applications made by the Crime Intelligence unit of the SAPS. He informed the JSCI that the NPA is now also a client of OIC.
This report is old i did not find the latest report 2010 .
http://www.pmg.org.za/docs/2011/comreports/110921jcintelligencereport.htm
On 03 February 2010 the Committee visited the OIC. The Committee received a presentation on interceptions from the Director, Adv Koopedi.
In the three and half years that OIC has been established, three million interceptions were done. The clients of OIC are prescribed by the Regulation of Interception of Communications and Provision of Communication-Related Information Act (RICA), not by OIC. South African Police Services is the biggest client and this is reflected in the amount of applications made by the Crime Intelligence unit of the SAPS. He informed the JSCI that the NPA is now also a client of OIC.
This report is old i did not find the latest report 2010 .
http://www.pmg.org.za/docs/2011/comreports/110921jcintelligencereport.htm
ToxicBunny
Oi! Leave me out of this...
Yes... so they processed 3m intercepts over a 3.5 year period. That's less than a million a year, and less than 3000 a day. There are 50m cellphones in this country... so on average they're touching less than 0.006% of cellphones on any given day.
This is the public version you are shown. This merely caters for the police's Crime Intelligence.
They are not associated with National Intelligence Agency at all. Although they work together in sharing information here and there, they are not the same agencies.
The police's crime intelligence focus on all types of normal crime, while NIA focuses on national security.
The National Intelligence Agency is the one doing the mass interceptions and recordings not the police.
ToxicBunny
Oi! Leave me out of this...
So.. since you have the numbers do tell us the storage and network requirements for such a system... or a ballpark figure if you please
koeksGHT
Dealer
classified
I assume these tenders wouldn't be public info for storage requirements etc.
If you think you are not being recorded then you are just being ignorant.
Details sketchy from Houses explanation which would be due to confidentiality agreements so no one can be sure
jannievanzyl
Telecoms expert
You don't need access to tenders or anything cloak-and-dagger.classified
I assume these tenders wouldn't be public info for storage requirements etc.
If you think you are not being recorded then you are just being ignorant.
Details sketchy from Houses explanation which would be due to confidentiality agreements so no one can be sure
Work out (or look up) how many minutes are carried on the networks (hint; it's hundreds of billions), get a good feel of what storage you require per call (another hint; don't use House's numbers - he recons he can do a voice call at 160bits/s - hope he patented this
), add the meta data (yet another; it can be substantially more than the call itself) and you have your answer. All simple maths on the back of a little knowledge on how networks work.While you are doing this, calculate how big the pipes must be to carry all the voice to the spy-shop. And tell us if these pipes are in place.
And, for an encore, do the CPU requirements (I'll admit I've not looked at what is required here - all I know is the NSA spends over $20B per year doing this level of processing).
Then let's talk about who's being ignorant.
Ok so we need a solution. So what can be done to protect one's phone conversations for the privacy conscious ones? From the looks of things these operators can randomly tap calls. Voip service over vpn maybe? Unless the voip providers are working with governments too
I beg to differ. Both common sense and various friends in our intelligence community has told me otherwise (for both this and other requests).
Yes, you are right.
The SAPS crime intelligence needs to obtain court orders for every phone call tapped, but the National Intelligence Agency does not. Perhaps your friends decided not to tell you the truth or they really do not know what they are talking about.
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