Where are South Africa's Software Developers?

Ancalagon said:
Is it just me or is most software development in SA based around consulting rather than developing a product?
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That is where the money is if you are willing to overlook the job security. Private consultants can charge 2-3x what a inhouse dev hourly rate would be and it would get paid.
 
It's about money vs. sleep

I am a software developer, writing services to mostly run on Linux and have not touched .NET for some years now. Guess I am that one from "the other 'dark' side".

The issue with developers leaving the industry or moving somewhere else is simple:
- Salary sucks. You mostly get a flat salary if you are not a consultant that can charge by the hour, and the end result is the hours you are contracted for != the actual hours worked = decreasing your own pay actually?

- Hours are horrendous...we have all been there

- Stress and Pressures not managed by the so called project managers we have available in RSA. Anyone can delegate which seems to be the roll taken up by project managers. Really - good managers make happy staff in most instances when a project and the stupid deadlines are managed properly and in perspective.


aagh...guess we can ramble on forever, yet we are behind our PC's coding!
 
Some really cool and exciting comments coming through. Maybe we should write an article on how to hire programmers.
 
Paul_S said:
Programming requires a certain amount of aptitude which cannot be learnt IMO. You either have what it takes to be a programmer or you don't.
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Generalising...

There are certain attributes that make a star programmer – pattern recognition, diagnostic ability and creativity. In other words, Asperger syndrome.

Hollywood has made a film (Mercury Rising) with Bruce Willis about full-blown autism. Turn down the volume and you get someone like “The girl with the dragon tattoo” (book) – borderline dysfunctional. Turn down the volume even more and you get brilliant software developers and geeks.

Consider the attributes – good at things that can be controlled (software) but sucky at uncontrollable ‘sticky’ stuff like human relationships. So your average geek and brilliant software developer is mildly autistic. QED.
 
Palimino said:
Consider the attributes – good at things that can be controlled (software) but sucky at uncontrollable ‘sticky’ stuff like human relationships. So your average geek and brilliant software developer is mildly autistic. QED.
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I think mild is too "mild" a word :p
 
Kosmik said:
That is where the money is if you are willing to overlook the job security. Private consultants can charge 2-3x what a inhouse dev hourly rate would be and it would get paid.
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I meant more that software development businesses in SA are consulting businesses, instead of businesses that develop products to sell. Out of the 3 jobs I had in the UK, only one was consulting, while in SA most of the interviews I went to were for consulting firms.
 
Ancalagon said:
I meant more that software development businesses in SA are consulting businesses, instead of businesses that develop products to sell. Out of the 3 jobs I had in the UK, only one was consulting, while in SA most of the interviews I went to were for consulting firms.
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Ahh yes. There are very few software houses that actually sell products in SA, a prime example being a company like Derivco who churn out gambling software. Most development that I've seen is either for in house enterprise or support for a product versus the actual creation of one. But this is a good thing, it allows SA developers to get into companies and become solution architects for those scenarios. It's also probably the best experience you can get rather than designing a singular product or a common line.
 
Its good experience, but nonetheless working on a project owned by the company itself is kinda cool. For one thing, it greatly simplifies support.
 
Ancalagon said:
Its good experience, but nonetheless working on a project owned by the company itself is kinda cool. For one thing, it greatly simplifies support.
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Current experiance is that companies that outsource software, charge an arm and a leg on licensing etc. Thats the biggest driver for companies to go inhouse as they grow bigger.
 
Kosmik said:
Current experiance is that companies that outsource software, charge an arm and a leg on licensing etc. Thats the biggest driver for companies to go inhouse as they grow bigger.
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For some things consulting makes sense, for instance if you would have no need of a software development team after a particular project is complete. Even with some companies starting in house dev teams, there just arent a lot of companies that make and sell software as a service or product.
 
Ancalagon said:
For some things consulting makes sense, for instance if you would have no need of a software development team after a particular project is complete. Even with some companies starting in house dev teams, there just arent a lot of companies that make and sell software as a service or product.
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I agree, by in house dev teams I mean they literally spend their entire time coding applications for the companies internal use , not for sale etc. And it's a very dangerous thing to say no need for a dev team after a particular project is completed, remember the SDLC?
Normaly what happens is that the team focuses on something else creation wise while supporting/maintaining the released and while that is in use , the company is anlysing the results of the new system, where it can be extended, improved or integrated into something else.
 
Messugga said:
I think you're being a tad generous with that R20k figure. R20k can probably be expected by someone with at least a year's worth of real experience, unless the candidate is above average when it comes to talent.
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No, R20K is the starting salary. I've been following the job market (I'm studying through UNISA and still working) for my unemployed IT friends and thats the salary in Cape Town area. Get 3yrs experience (nobody really cares about anything less than that) and then the salary really kicks in.
 
Ancalagon said:
Most job adverts I saw for graduates started with as little as R10k, sometimes they even wanted you to have experience to get R10k.
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I've seen some offer R7K but I do not look at them as real jobs in IT. You will always get low paying jobs but you cannot base salary (low or high) on just a few ads. Also remember that in IT (and most other industries), companies do not advertised unless they are desperate and usually as a result of low offer. The last couple of proper job offers I've seen have been all emailed to me from HR departments and none have been advertised.

Heck even a SETA certified hair stylist earns more than R10K pm in her first 6mths.
 
Kosmik said:
I think mild is too "mild" a word :p
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A stronger example than ‘mild’ would be Dr. Sheldon Cooper from the TV sitcom ‘The Big Bang Theory’. His human relationship dysfunctions are played for laughs but I don’t think someone like that could cope in the real world. His autism is stronger than ‘mild’. A balance must be struck to survive.
 
cbrunsdonza said:
I've seen some offer R7K but I do not look at them as real jobs in IT. You will always get low paying jobs but you cannot base salary (low or high) on just a few ads. Also remember that in IT (and most other industries), companies do not advertised unless they are desperate and usually as a result of low offer. The last couple of proper job offers I've seen have been all emailed to me from HR departments and none have been advertised.

Heck even a SETA certified hair stylist earns more than R10K pm in her first 6mths.
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Wtf?? R10K p/m?!

When I started as a graduate I got R15k p/m with benefits. And this was 4 years ago...
 
EtienneK said:
Wtf?? R10K p/m?!

When I started as a graduate I got R15k p/m with benefits. And this was 4 years ago...
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The recession hit the industry hard with respect to junior positions. Things have started picking up again over the last 6 months, as far as I can tell, so that's good at least. My current employer reckons I should double my salary within the next 3 years (I think he's a tad optimistic but he seems to think I'm worth it), so in his opinion at least, decent IT people are being poached, as I have been, more actively now.
 
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