White man changes surname

[Leitmotif]

Progressive comapanies realise the need to hire black candidates to management positions. Since there is a shortage of suitably qualified black candidates, they choose to develop their own. First the company gives you a bursary to acquire your degree and they hire you into a graduate program and then you get rotated throughout the organisation to learn as much as possible in as short a time as possible. then after 2 - 3 years you get promoted to replace that retiring old manager and continue to be mentored by one elected director or executive and then another four years down the line you get appointed director. To me this is "fast tracking". Under normal circumstances, you'd have had to spend 20 years before you could get there, right?

Except that what's actually happening is that companies are not being given the time to train people, and smaller companies particularly don't have the bottom line to support training staff members who will only be productive at some future date... possibly, and in the meantime are taking up resources including a mentor's working time.

May work in a US corporation. Not here, though. It's just expected that you'll have to hire a guy to do the work and hope for the best.

 

[mancombseepgood]

Even the SETA's - I remember doing installations at one of the ISETT SETAs during the initial phase. The guys who were providing the IT training had little clue as to how their own system worked... some were just fresh out of college without experience - ready to pass their new skills on. It's unfortunate but they could have hired skilled and experienced people in these positions to do the mentoring and training... then the next generation would be better prepared and could take over.

 

[Bageloo]

I worked for Telkom until 2004. A while back they offered genourous voluntary packages to employees. I applied for one but got turned down. I left anyway. But that was not AA related, it was more a matter of downsizing. Telkom has been downsizing for the past 20 years. At some point they had 75 000 employees and when I left they had a little more than 30 000. That was to be expected given the history of Telkom/Post office(no need to elaborate this point). And of course the digitisation of their infrastructure contirbuted to job losses.

 

[Bageloo]

Except that what's actually happening is that companies are not being given the time to train people, and smaller companies particularly don't have the bottom line to support training staff members who will only be productive at some future date... possibly, and in the meantime are taking up resources including a mentor's working time.

May work in a US corporation. Not here, though. It's just expected that you'll have to hire a guy to do the work and hope for the best.

This works here. You just have to look at the big banks as an example. Every company must have a training budget no matter how small. Otherwise, how do you bump up the skills levels? Trainees are not only productive at some future date as they are actively participating in the daily operations of the company.

 

[mancombseepgood]

What??

Telkom has been downsizing for the past 20 years. At some point they had 75 000 employees and when I left they had a little more than 30 000. That was to be expected given the history of Telkom/Post office(no need to elaborate this point). And of course the digitisation of their infrastructure contirbuted to job losses.

How do you digitise ADSL installers?
How do you downscale while the demand and turnover go up?
Downscaling (including yourself no doubt) had mainly to do with outsourcing, not digitising. How do you explain that they are unable to keep up with the workload? ADSL installations are only one example. How is it that they make a phenominal profit while downscaling? No, they had an opportunity second to none to live the AA dream but it seems everyone down to the major shareholder aren't putting their money where their mouth is. Maybe they think blacks should not be techies as this is a menial task? I'm sure there are alot of people who would love to have a job like this. Maybe this is what alot of people think should be happening - AA unfortunately often overlooks the potential opportunities that these positions afford. I am saying this because I live in a part of the country with a very high African population but have only once met a black telkom tecchie (and I have met many). I think they could have made this country a far better place but chose not to in the interest of making MONEY. Prove me otherwise.

 

[mancombseepgood]

Lol

This works here. You just have to look at the big banks as an example. Every company must have a training budget no matter how small. Otherwise, how do you bump up the skills levels? Trainees are not only productive at some future date as they are actively participating in the daily operations of the company.

Let's not say banks and every company in the same sentence. There is a huge financial difference. And my point again is that the companies that have been "transformed" at the top often don't put their money where their mouth is. I heard a client once say while tendering that they (the company offering the tender) want to see BEE at the top and whites doing the work... this came from an AA director.

 

[Bageloo]

Let's not say banks and every company in the same sentence. There is a huge financial difference. And my point again is that the companies that have been "transformed" at the top often don't put their money where their mouth is. I heard a client once say while tendering that they (the company offering the tender) want to see BEE at the top and whites doing the work... this came from an AA director.

Finaly, it looks like we might agree on something. There should be a distinction made between BEE and AA. BEE is more focused on ownership which does very little to uplift the poor. But instead creates black fat cats like Sakie Macozoma, Tokyo Sexwale, Cyril Ramaphosa, Mzi Khumalo etc. Whereas AA is meant to bring about transformation of the workforce. I believe BEE can be achieved through AA as it much harder to do it the other way round. Once the black fat cat sits on top he doesn't give a sh*t as to who does the work. One such BEE (Mboweni) openly stated that he prefers afrikaaners because they don't job hop like blacks do. Because he is now empowered he will alwys put his own interests first and also he is under no GVT pressure to transform his workforce as he is GVT company

 

[(DmZ)Wrecky]

The job must still be done; the company must still make a profit. The country must move forward. It is a balancing act.

 

[Nod]

The big problem with AA, from my POV, is that AA candidates are mostly opportunists that jump from job to job, and rarely deserves it. I seen AA candidates that could barely do the work, and then get more senior positions than white people that were in the company for 10 years. They don't have the experience or skills to be placed in those positions, but because of the lack of AA people that are even remotely qualified, they still get the positions. It demotivates people completely and hurt the company in the long run. Even the AA guy working next to you gets better salaries and increases, just to try and keep them from hopping to the next company. I've been told by our HR department, that because of AA, I won't be able to get any further in the company. Would you have respect for a manager that got there because of AA? Would you do your best for the company if they tell you, you are stuck in your position because of AA? Would you train somebody (AA), if you know this guy would probably be your boss in a year or two? I don't think so. I worked much harder than any AA candidate to get where I am, I won't help any AA person to get ahead. If you want a free ride, bang your girlfriend, I won't bend over and take it like a man.

 

[Bageloo]

The job must still be done; the company must still make a profit. The country must move forward. It is a balancing act.

Agree, but also the company must not neglect its responsibilities towards the community where it makes its money. At the end of the day, profits should be balanced against some corporate responsibility.

 

[Bageloo]

The big problem with AA, from my POV, is that AA candidates are mostly opportunists that jump from job to job, and rarely deserves it. I seen AA candidates that could barely do the work, and then get more senior positions than white people that were in the company for 10 years. They don't have the experience or skills to be placed in those positions, but because of the lack of AA people that are even remotely qualified, they still get the positions. It demotivates people completely and hurt the company in the long run. Even the AA guy working next to you gets better salaries and increases, just to try and keep them from hopping to the next company. I've been told by our HR department, that because of AA, I won't be able to get any further in the company. Would you have respect for a manager that got there because of AA? Would you do your best for the company if they tell you, you are stuck in your position because of AA? Would you train somebody (AA), if you know this guy would probably be your boss in a year or two? I don't think so. I worked much harder than any AA candidate to get where I am, I won't help any AA person to get ahead. If you want a free ride, bang your girlfriend, I won't bend over and take it like a man.

ha!ha! very funny piece of writing! Anyone that gets the job does so through a rigourous selection process. And yes, they deserve it more than the others that did not get it.
Any AA candidate working alongside or under you will most definately leave. Because you'll always see them as just another AA case, despite the good work they might be doing for the company.
It is a myth that AA candidates get more salary increases. Companies doing that are shooting themselves in the foot because AA candidates leave anyway. The reason is rarely about money. It's ussually about the support they don't get, the diminished responsibilities which leads to inability to make any meaningful contribution and the desire for more recognition.

 

[jontyB]

ha!ha! very funny piece of writing! Anyone that gets the job does so through a rigourous selection process. And yes, they deserve it more than the others that did not get it.
Any AA candidate working alongside or under you will most definately leave. Because you'll always see them as just another AA case, despite the good work they might be doing for the company.
It is a myth that AA candidates get more salary increases. Companies doing that are shooting themselves in the foot because AA candidates leave anyway. The reason is rarely about money. It's ussually about the support they don't get, the diminished responsibilities which leads to inability to make any meaningful contribution and the desire for more recognition.

Now you're blowing smoke. It is becoming a norm for AA candidates to job hop. In accordance to our own research (I work for a research company) AA is being used as a tool to rapidly fast forward some candidates' career prospects. In one particular instance we saw a candidate apply for a new AA position in 6 days from taking up her third position in as many months. She works in the IT/Financial sector and has successfully tripled her salary inside a year. It is an opportunity and many people are using it to their advantage. She now works for a major bank.

As for support in a position - if you require additional support above and beyond your job description to do your job, then you're probably not very competent any way.

 

[Nod]

ha!ha! very funny piece of writing! Anyone that gets the job does so through a rigourous selection process. And yes, they deserve it more than the others that did not get it.

So you are saying that I'm lying? That what I experienced firsthand is a load of bull?

Any AA candidate working alongside or under you will most definately leave. Because you'll always see them as just another AA case, despite the good work they might be doing for the company.

Some of them actually do very good work. But some others are opportunists, playing there AA role to there own benefit, crying racism every time they don't get what they want. Experienced this as well, when I refused to do an AA's job for him.

It is a myth that AA candidates get more salary increases. Companies doing that are shooting themselves in the foot because AA candidates leave anyway. The reason is rarely about money. It's ussually about the support they don't get, the diminished responsibilities which leads to inability to make any meaningful contribution and the desire for more recognition.

This was actually confirmed by our HR department, when it leaked out. Their only response was, that it shouldn't have leaked out. All the white personnel got 6% increases, all the blacks got 12%. Most AA's that left our company did so for more money. Thats fact. The moment they are trained, they will start looking for something else.

 

[(DmZ)Wrecky]

What would be a “reasonable” time between jobs? 18 months?

Sometimes the only way to get a promotion is to hop, 3 times in 3 months is bad.

 

[jontyB]

What would be a “reasonable” time between jobs? 18 months?

Sometimes the only way to get a promotion is to hop, 3 times in 3 months is bad.

I would say it depends on the industry and the job - but inside of 6 months (unless you are incredibly unhappy and change career paths) is not a very good reflection on the candidate I'd say.

 

[Piesang]

I'd say keep your job. It's not easy to find these days.

 

[kilo39]

I would say it depends on the industry and the job - but inside of 6 months (unless you are incredibly unhappy and change career paths) is not a very good reflection on the candidate I'd say.

It's also not a very good reflection on the company who hires the job-hopper. They know they're a hopper but they still employ them. This a a major de-motivator for other employees (and shows "the alternative motives of the company.")

 

[jontyB]

It's also not a very good reflection on the company who hires the job-hopper. They know they're a hopper but they still employ them. This a a major de-motivator for other employees (and shows "the alternative motives of the company.")

That is assuming the job hopper is being honest on his/her resume.

 

[Bageloo]

So you are saying that I'm lying? That what I experienced firsthand is a load of bull?

Some of them actually do very good work. But some others are opportunists, playing there AA role to there own benefit, crying racism every time they don't get what they want. Experienced this as well, when I refused to do an AA's job for him.

This was actually confirmed by our HR department, when it leaked out. Their only response was, that it shouldn't have leaked out. All the white personnel got 6% increases, all the blacks got 12%. Most AA's that left our company did so for more money. Thats fact. The moment they are trained, they will start looking for something else.

It's also not a very good reflection on the company who hires the job-hopper. They know they're a hopper but they still employ them. This a a major de-motivator for other employees (and shows "the alternative motives of the company.")

I was just about to say that job hoping is perpetuated by companies that hire hoppers. In some cases the AA candidates get head hunted. And I suppose no one would want to head hunt a loafer.

 

[Bageloo]

Now you're blowing smoke. It is becoming a norm for AA candidates to job hop. In accordance to our own research (I work for a research company) AA is being used as a tool to rapidly fast forward some candidates' career prospects. In one particular instance we saw a candidate apply for a new AA position in 6 days from taking up her third position in as many months. She works in the IT/Financial sector and has successfully tripled her salary inside a year. It is an opportunity and many people are using it to their advantage. She now works for a major bank.

As for support in a position - if you require additional support above and beyond your job description to do your job, then you're probably not very competent any way.

I suppose most people work in teams. Inorder for the team to achieve, every member must make a positive contribution. That's the support I was refering to. Nobody can succeed alone no matter how competent they are!