White students 'overlooked'

[Skeptik]

Oh come on, I went to a private school with black people and now go to university with them and you can't tell me they're in any way disadvantaged if they can afford to pay private school fees! If they're educated and competent I'm sure they'll get the same jobs everybody else does.

There were black people at Rhodes University in '82 and even earlier. Same with private schools.

when these figures change



One can really not argue that this shows that there is significant suffering by whites, in terms of jobs

What is the difference between a black SA person and a white SA person that we have to discriminate in this way??
[Please answer if you can ]

 

[xtermin8or]

What is the difference between a black SA person and a white SA person that we have to discriminate in this way??
[Please answer if you can ]

Do i really have to give a history lesson here, some people seem to have forgotten what Apartheid done to people in this country

blacks in this country were discriminated against and humiliated for decades, this left many of them without proper education and so they ended up in squatter camps not being able to give their children a decent education and so the cycle continues - Government had to step in and put an end to this cycle, hence, quotas, bee, bbbee, and AA

The figures I mentioned show that while people ( mainly white ) continuosly complain that they are being overlooked for jobs etc. the evidence clearly shows that this is not the case, once again it is just a perception - stop listening to what your friends tell you over the braaistand and look at the real situation out there

 

[Bageloo]

The figures I mentioned show that while people ( mainly white ) continuosly complain that they are being overlooked for jobs etc. the evidence clearly shows that this is not the case, once again it is just a perception - stop listening to what your friends tell you over the braaistand and look at the real situation out there

In terms of the racial quotas, a certain number needs to be non-white (not all) inorder to achieve the targets. Any white person is free to compete for a non AA position. One logical conclusion one can draw is that complaints against AA are motivated by greed.

 

[icyrus]

Do i really have to give a history lesson here, some people seem to have forgotten what Apartheid done to people in this country

blacks in this country were discriminated against and humiliated for decades, this left many of them without proper education and so they ended up in squatter camps not being able to give their children a decent education and so the cycle continues - Government had to step in and put an end to this cycle, hence, quotas, bee, bbbee, and AA

The figures I mentioned show that while people ( mainly white ) continuosly complain that they are being overlooked for jobs etc. the evidence clearly shows that this is not the case, once again it is just a perception - stop listening to what your friends tell you over the braaistand and look at the real situation out there

My main problem with AA and its ilk is not that there are white people who are being passed up fro jobs they deserve or that incompetent people can end up in positions they can't manage or even the rampant corruption that results from BEE, its that racist policies are terminally damaging to society. Just like apartheid was.

 

[icyrus]

In terms of the racial quotas, a certain number needs to be non-white (not all) inorder to achieve the targets. Any white person is free to compete for a non AA position. One logical conclusion one can draw is that complaints against AA are motivated by greed.

That isn't logic.

 

[Bageloo]

That isn't logic.

what is it?

 

[xtermin8or]

These are the AA measures as stipulated in the Employment Equity Act - I see no problem with it

15. Affirmative action measures.--(1) Affirmative action measures are measures designed to ensure that suitably qualified people from designated groups have equal employment opportunities and are equitably represented in all occupational categories and levels in the workforce of a designated employer.



(2) Affirmative action measures implemented by a designated employer must include--

i) measures to identify and eliminate employment barriers, including unfair discrimination, which adversely affect people from designated groups;

ii) measures designed to further diversity in the workplace based on equal dignity and respect of all people;

iii) making reasonable accommodation for people from designated groups in order to ensure that they enjoy equal opportunities and are equitably represented in the workforce of a designated employer;

and just to explain why it was enacted - the preamble to the Act

as a result of apartheid and other discriminatory laws and practices, there are disparities in employment, occupation and income within the national labour market; and

that those disparities create such pronounced disadvantages for certain categories of people that they cannot be redressed simply by repealing discriminatory laws,

Therefore, in order to--

promote the constitutional right of equality and the exercise of true democracy;

eliminate unfair discrimination in employment;

ensure the implementation of employment equity to redress the effects of discrimination;

achieve a diverse workforce broadly representative of our people;

promote economic development and efficiency in the workforce; and

give effect to the obligations of the Republic as a member of the International Labour Organisation,

If you want to read the entire Act - and I urge people to do so

Employment Equity Act - Act 55 of 1998

 

[Brenden_E]

what is it?

Shortsighted.

 

[Skeptik]

Do i really have to give a history lesson here, some people seem to have forgotten what Apartheid done to people in this country

blacks in this country were discriminated against and humiliated for decades, this left many of them without proper education and so they ended up in squatter camps not being able to give their children a decent education and so the cycle continues - Government had to step in and put an end to this cycle, hence, quotas, bee, bbbee, and AA

The figures I mentioned show that while people ( mainly white ) continuosly complain that they are being overlooked for jobs etc. the evidence clearly shows that this is not the case, once again it is just a perception - stop listening to what your friends tell you over the braaistand and look at the real situation out there

Errr....you didn't answer my question. Please say so if you cannot or have difficulty understanding it.

I'll simplify it...

What is the difference between a black SA and a white SA person?

 

[Bageloo]

Errr....you didn't answer my question. Please say so if you cannot or have difficulty understanding it.

I'll simplify it...

What is the difference between a black SA and a white SA person?

Simple answer to a simple question. Black SA previously disadvantaged, white SA previously advantaged.

 

[Bageloo]

Shortsighted.

please explain...

 

[Brenden_E]

please explain...

Calling the right to be judged on merit and not on physical race traits in order to get a job greedy, is shortsighted. I'm currently disadvantaged being a white male, guess we'll have to affirm me as previously disadvantaged in 5 years. Or how long does it take?

AA is the biggest contradiction ever. Let's fight race inequality by discriminating against the whites this time. ERm, yea - great idea there. AA is the reason why there is mass exodus of white skills from the land and believing that this helps the country as a whole is, again, shortsighted.

 

[xtermin8or]

Calling the right to be judged on merit and not on physical race traits in order to get a job greedy,

The Act clearly states that only suitably qualified people should have equal opportunities

Affirmative action measures are measures designed to ensure that suitably qualified people from designated groups have equal employment opportunities

Employment Equity Act

 

[chiskop]

How then, do we solve the problem of massive inherited inequality? Do we ignore it and pretend it'll go away? Is there some magic way that economic empowerment (little e's) will trickle down?

 

[MyDraadloos]

Well the results seem conclusive, but there is 4 idiots on the forum.

 

[Skeptik]

Simple answer to a simple question. Black SA previously disadvantaged, white SA previously advantaged.

Extermin8tor has hedged the question and the above is not an answer.

Why is the question so difficult??

People who had a black skin were disadvantaged, but what is the difference between these people?

 

[Bageloo]

Extermin8tor has hedged the question and the above is not an answer.

Why is the question so difficult??

People who had a black skin were disadvantaged, but what is the difference between these people?

you are starting to sound weird !!!!!

 

[Bageloo]

Calling the right to be judged on merit and not on physical race traits in order to get a job greedy, is shortsighted. I'm currently disadvantaged being a white male, guess we'll have to affirm me as previously disadvantaged in 5 years. Or how long does it take?

AA is the biggest contradiction ever. Let's fight race inequality by discriminating against the whites this time. ERm, yea - great idea there. AA is the reason why there is mass exodus of white skills from the land and believing that this helps the country as a whole is, again, shortsighted.

I call it greedy, because as the statistics suggest, the majority of the whites are employed...Why do you complain if you already have a job???

 

[xtermin8or]

Extermin8tor has hedged the question and the above is not an answer.

Why is the question so difficult??

People who had a black skin were disadvantaged, but what is the difference between these people?

Are you a dimwit or what ? the answer has been given so many times, there is no difference between the people, the situation in the country during Apartheid has however left blacks and whites unequal in economic terms. AA is therefore a means to equalise this, it is working, but very slowly - I posted figures before that clearly show that Whites are not being disadvantaged by the system, so why complain - once again I put it to you that it is merely a perception that whites are suffering at the hands of the new democratic government - if you still don't uderstand this concept - I suppose the old TED schooling system really failed you

 

[Skeptik]

Are you a dimwit or what ? the answer has been given so many times, there is no difference between the people, the situation in the country during Apartheid has however left blacks and whites unequal in economic terms. AA is therefore a means to equalise this, it is working, but very slowly - I posted figures before that clearly show that Whites are not being disadvantaged by the system, so why complain - once again I put it to you that it is merely a perception that whites are suffering at the hands of the new democratic government - if you still don't uderstand this concept - I suppose the old TED schooling system really failed you

Aaaaaaaaaa! An answer at last. (Hey no need for insults pal). --> An education is more than just learning facts.

Now if as you say; "there is no difference between the people" and you really mean it.... Why do we need to give people with a darker skin more advantages? By doing this you are saying - SHOUTING - "We are different!"
This creates an US and THEM situation which perpetuates racism.