Windows 8 "catastrophe" driving Valve Linux

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Windows 8 "catastrophe" driving Valve to Linux

Valve head—and one-time Microsoft employee—Gabe Newell has branded Windows 8 "a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space" at videogame conference Casual Connect in Seattle. The Valve boss continued, saying that in the fallout from Windows 8, "we'll lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people." Newell criticised Windows 8 while talking about the future of the gaming industry, and you can read everything he said at VentureBeat.

He argued that one of the last remaining things keeping people away from Linux was the lack of games. Valve is working to bring Left 4 Dead 2 and other Steam titles to Linux in a move that Newell describes as "a hedging strategy." If his predictions about Windows 8 come true, he says "it will be good to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality."

Newell's low opinion of Microsoft's next major operating system has been known for some time. When Michael Larabel of Phoronix visited Valve's Bellevue, WA, campus in April of this year to learn about the company's efforts to port Steam to Linux, he reported that Newell's "negativity for Windows 8 and the future of Microsoft was stunning."

Newell is not a disinterested third party. Valve makes money from the commission it takes on Steam sales. Windows 8, with its built-in Windows Store, challenges that revenue source. Features such as Xbox LIVE integration could make the Windows Store and Windows 8 a more appealing platform for gamers and developers alike than Steam.

However, the other aspect of the Store—the closed and controlled nature—also concerns him. He attributed Valve's success to the PC's open nature, saying that the company "wouldn't exist" without either the PC or "the openness of the platform." That openness is under threat, though. Newell argues that there is a "strong temptation" to close the platform, because the platform's developers "look at what they can accomplish when they limit the competitors’ access to the platform, and they say 'That's really exciting.'"
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http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/...8-catastrophe-driving-valve-to-embrace-linux/
 
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Pr⊕phet said:
god old news... gabe, someone desperatly scraping the bottom.
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...catastrophe-for-everyone-in-the-PC-space-quot
http://mygaming.co.za/forum/showthr...uot-catastrophe-quot-says-Valve-s-Gabe-Newell
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The article isn't any less valid on account of it being a few days old.

I must confess that I felt quite ambivalent about the article when I read it earlier in the week because Valve haven't exactly embraced Linux in the past.

But hey, I guess you must have some esoteric knowledge that he doesn't have, even though he actually worked for MS for 13 years.
 
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It's probably more profitable for Valve to move to Linux if Games for Windows brings along royalty costs like it does on consoles.
 
If valve pushes Linux hard enough I will happily port over. My biggest issue with Linux was the lack of games for it. It already has everything else I need.
 
fskmh said:
The article isn't any less valid on account of it being a few days old.

I must confess that I felt quite ambivalent about the article when I read it earlier in the week because Valve haven't exactly embraced Linux in the past.

But hey, I guess you must have some esoteric knowledge that he doesn't have, even though he actually worked for MS for 13 years.
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Newell and another Microsoft employee, Mike Harrington, left Microsoft to found Valve in 1996
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Awesome to know that MS was already working on windows 8 since or prior to '96 so that it eclipses gabe's employment to give him the much needed head sup to retort how not so great it would be without having to present a sound argument.

By normal process one presents an argument. If it has value it is moved up to hold merit, where exactly is this argument that gabe and rob (blizzard) is presenting? Where is the comparative data on all aspects that we can scrutinize it? Please be so kind to finally link us to this much sought after argument that we can know why he said what he said and write off that it was nothing more than a retort.
 
I think with enough investment WINE could support all windows games up to a point and steam on linux could do tnat.
 
Pr⊕phet said:
Where is the comparative data on all aspects that we can scrutinize it? Please be so kind to finally link us to this much sought after argument that we can know why he said what he said and write off that it was nothing more than a retort.
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If you want more details on what the guy said, google it yourself. Then perhaps you can try and present an argument that's worth responding to.
 
fskmh said:
If you want more details on what the guy said, google it yourself. Then perhaps you can try and present an argument that's worth responding to.
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Aah, so no argument(s) then, it was nothing more than a retort in the hope to punt.

:edit
Aqua_lung said:
I think with enough investment WINE could support all windows games up to a point and steam on linux could do tnat.
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Or opengl should have done more to compete? Yes WINE is pretty decent, but I'd bet that this communion of open developers and contribution has yet to be found. Nowadays the wait is on handouts and puntations, as presented by the crier himself.
 
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Pr⊕phet said:
Please be so kind to finally link us to this much sought after argument that we can know why he said what he said and write off that it was nothing more than a retort.
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The crux of the problem is fairly well expressed in the comment by TehGoldenRule starting "Windows 8 RT is one version and Windows 8 Pro is another version.":

Windows 8 Pro will be like what Windows 7 is in many respects. The RT version for the most part is what's getting OEMs pissed off. This is the version that will only run on ARM processor machines. This is the important part regarding RT: All apps will be what are called Metro apps (named after the UI of Windows 8 Start Screen); all apps in RT will have to be bought and downloaded through the Windows Store which is the same business model as the Apple App Store for iOS devices. OEMs are IRATE that Microsoft has decided to build the Microsoft Surface device that runs RT on ARM processors. So MS hardware and MS only app store. Who wants to compete with that? That is the very definition of a closed system albeit OEMs are free to build their own RT machines; Surface I am sure cost hundreds of millions to develop and this is the slim margins Gabe speaks about.

MS has money coming out of the ears. Of course Windows Store will be the only route for app makers on RT, so MS gets a percentage cut. Microsoft thinks (hopes) this is going to be coup, like Apple has done. The Pro version of Windows 8 can run on x86 processors. Apps can be bought and installed from anywhere INCLUDING the Windows Store. Microsoft also has a version of the Microsoft Surface machine built to run Windows 8 Pro. So OEMs will be pissed at this also.

Steam will be pissed at this, even though Steam won't have to go through the Windows Store to be installed on Windows 8 Pro machines, they will still have to contend with the reality that Windows 8 RT ARM machines are all ALL Windows Store ALL the time, Windows 8 Pro x86 machines are leading us to the same model. It is equivalent to Apple's Gatekeeper in their latest version of OS X, Mountain Lion, which enables the user to choose to be able to install apps only from the Mac App Store, or from the Mac App Store and registered trusted developers, or from ANYWHERE. Anywhere is freedom for all, but we can see how Apple can easily lock this down further in the future, forcing App developers like Steam to only be able to give the Steam platform through the Mac App Store, but in-app purchases, which is what Steam gets a cut of, would hypothetically have to contend with Apple getting their 30% of in-app purchases. Microsoft charges a cut, just like Apple, for paid apps that go through the Windows Store.

This is why we need GNU/Linux to thrive NOW. I could be off a little bit in the details and all the intricacies but these as I understand them are the main points. Unfortunately for computing, the masses don't really care about these points, they only care about whether a machine "just works" or not. We have to keep computing from becoming a monopoly, a situation like when Walmart or Starbucks rolls into town and all the Mom and Pops are forced to shut down. The masses don't care, it works for them, but those who have built their lives and fortunes care tremendously. Apple has a problem with "planned obsolescence" in their products and also the lock down of the App Stores, it is unsavory.

MS looks at Apple's profits and wants to emulate them.
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I highlighted some of the important bits so that the MS fanbois can also see them. This is what Win8 is all about - regaining a lot of control ( read "$$$" ), recreating monopolies as far as possible. They might just manage it too - I see they are bringing Office to RT-ARM, which is both very clever and very nasty for any competitor OS. The almost universal standardisation on Office way back when is one of the major reasons for the dominance of the PC and the death of many more interesting software systems - to talk, to communicate, it just had to be Word and Excel.

/me pisses on MS
 
rwenzori said:
The crux of the problem is fairly well expressed in the comment by TehGoldenRule starting "Windows 8 RT is one version and Windows 8 Pro is another version.":



I highlighted some of the important bits so that the MS fanbois can also see them. This is what Win8 is all about - regaining a lot of control ( read "$$$" ), recreating monopolies as far as possible. They might just manage it too - I see they are bringing Office to RT-ARM, which is both very clever and very nasty for any competitor OS. The almost universal standardisation on Office way back when is one of the major reasons for the dominance of the PC and the death of many more interesting software systems - to talk, to communicate, it just had to be Word and Excel.

/me pisses on MS
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Thank you something more than just sensationalism...

So valve is feeling threatend by apps? Seriously? dear god let me burn my iphone and x360 quickly and while I'm add it toss my NDS in :eek:

I still feel like there is a lot of people just sitting around waiting for handouts without doing what needs to be done to create a decent competing system. They are normally the first to throw their toys when ms is closing the noose around the area they have gotten very relaxed in without the need to pull finger from arse.

I haven't used office outside of my work since I don't know, been doing quite well with open office and google docs.

No I'm no ms nor linux fanboy, I'm highlighting the fallacy of people just jumping on the shouting wagon. Which is rather pathetic. The bottom line is that no one is holding anyone at gun point to either not make linux better or use windows 8.
 
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Pr⊕phet said:
Thank you something more than just sensationalism...

So valve is feeling threatend by apps? Seriously?
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I know stuffall about Valve, but the simple result is inevitably this: where a company is forced to sell through a new channel that insists on 30% of the revenue, said company has to put their prices up, and you will pay more than if the channel was open rather than closed. If you are happy with that, and there do appear to be some quality assurance benefits, lekker. Me myself, I'd prefer freedom.
 
Windows RT is set to be used on Tables and ARM PCs (obviously phones too).

Looking at ARM PCs it seems to be a "lanboy", meaning small inferior version of a normal PC being cased in small factor. Now unless you plan to "root" an ARM PC to work with say BFx/MWx (going to be ****ing slow)... what exactly for are you planning to run of this baby that you would be needing steam? I see small entertainment centre boxes.

Windows 8 and windows 8 PRO is not limited as RT is, meaning you will be able to do without metro and the statement below: (correct?)


rwenzori said:
I know stuffall about Valve, but the simple result is inevitably this: where a company is forced to sell through a new channel that insists on 30% of the revenue, said company has to put their prices up, and you will pay more than if the channel was open rather than closed. If you are happy with that, and there do appear to be some quality assurance benefits, lekker. Me myself, I'd prefer freedom.
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True, however:

This is why we need GNU/Linux to thrive NOW.
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And gabe sat on his fatty hands all these years doing what exactly about this? So much for those 13 years of employment at MS. slacker much? *shrugs*

So he waits... until blanky isn't so nice any more, he all of a sudden throws toys and blames the consumers? People will still be using win xp (or even 3.11 if it worked). It doesn't change the picture that no one forced him not to do something or to just bend over and use metro apps. Actually quite funny that blizzard is joining in the chorus looking at how closed their IPs is.
 
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Pr⊕phet said:
Or opengl should have done more to compete? Yes WINE is pretty decent, but I'd bet that this communion of open developers and contribution has yet to be found. Nowadays the wait is on handouts and puntations, as presented by the crier himself.
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Playstation competes rather well as an OpenGL gaming system.
 
Aqua_lung said:
Playstation competes rather well as an OpenGL gaming system.
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Apparently not. It is based on but is using PSGL if I remember correctly, that is more of OpenGL ES not just OpenGL (??)

Gabe/Rob is going to cry at PSN for not allowing steam :whistle:
 
Pr⊕phet said:
Aah, so no argument(s) then, it was nothing more than a retort in the hope to punt.
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"In the hope to punt" what? Now I can't even get a coherent sentence out of you. Two industry insiders criticise Win8 and you still haven't posted anything except bluster to gainsay either of them. Someone has the temerity to actually post one of the utterances here and you're into the thread like a shot, get called out and now everyone else but you is the fanboi?
 
Pr⊕phet said:
Humour me. What pc are you getting that has Windows 8 RT on it ? :)
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Well I can tell you my RasPi (when it finally arrives) will not fall into that category. Sure as hell wouldn't want it my my Nexus. I guess some folks are quite looking forward to it on their MS Surface tablets though, seeing as that is what the new interface is all about?
 
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