Zuma tapes a 'secret'

blunomore said:
I think they probably exist, but the content is not sufficient to have led to the charges against JZ being withdrawn, which is why Hulley will never release them.
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I think the conversations happened but don't exist on tape, so zumas lawyer decided to bluff. Good poker player no doubt.
 
Jacob Zuma and his lawyers keep defeating the ends of justice by withholding critical information from prosecutors and the courts and no one has the balls to take him/them on.
 
waynegohl said:
Jacob Zuma and his lawyers keep defeating the ends of justice by withholding critical information from prosecutors and the courts and no one has the balls to take him/them on.
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The irony of this whole saga is that JZ and his lawyer are withholding the very evidence that was apparently the sole reason why the NPA at the time decided not to prosecute him on charges of serious corruption thus effectively getting him off the hook.

Now that the NPA decision is being reviewed for its correctness, they all of a sudden don't want to show it again! Madness, I would broadcast it everywhere on every platform possible if it were me in the hot seat.

More skulduggery here be sure!
 
Sneeky said:
The irony of this whole saga is that JZ and his lawyer are withholding the very evidence that was apparently the sole reason why the NPA at the time decided not to prosecute him on charges of serious corruption thus effectively getting him off the hook.

Now that the NPA decision is being reviewed for its correctness, they all of a sudden don't want to show it again! Madness, I would broadcast it everywhere on every platform possible if it were me in the hot seat.

More skulduggery here be sure!
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This is just it....how is this not massive news plastered everywhere...? :confused:
 
Sneeky said:
The irony of this whole saga is that JZ and his lawyer are withholding the very evidence that was apparently the sole reason why the NPA at the time decided not to prosecute him on charges of serious corruption thus effectively getting him off the hook.
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And here's the beautiful nuance of this case that gets missed regularly:
When Lekota charged that Zuma defied an order of the SCA and called for the President’s impeachment, he could not possibly have been in breach of rule 63 of the National Assembly. Lekota’s statement was not, technically speaking, true. Zuma was not ordered by the court to hand over the tapes – the NPA was ordered to do so. (Zuma could, of course, have ordered his lawyer to hand over the tapes, and the fact that he did not might suggest that he has limited respect for the judiciary.)
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http://dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2012-11-01-mfeketo-and-zuma-you-scratch-my-back-ill-scratch-yours
 
Here's my take on things ..

  • The ANC needed Zuma in place to be able to 'take over' and rob with impunity
  • Zuma hounded by corruption charges, preventing him from stealing the presidency
  • ANC, NPA, Zuma got together to work out a scheme, dreaming up 'political interference' & spin story about non-existent tapes
  • Zuma became prez, the ANC got it's puppet and everyone (despite some having to take the fall - remember Schaik?) are assured fat bank balances from their man on the inside.
Remember who appoints people in key positions. The whole lot is in on this mafia style, in the same way that public works or whatever authorised spending of R200mil+ on Zuma's kraal. One hand washes the other, they 'look after' Zuma so that he in turn would look after them.

Corruption, African style 101.
 
evilstebunny said:
Here's my take on things ..

  • The ANC needed Zuma in place to be able to 'take over' and rob with impunity
  • Zuma hounded by corruption charges, preventing him from stealing the presidency
  • ANC, NPA, Zuma got together to work out a scheme, dreaming up 'political interference' & spin story about non-existent tapes
  • Zuma became prez, the ANC got it's puppet and everyone (despite some having to take the fall - remember Schaik?) are assured fat bank balances from their man on the inside.
Remember who appoints people in key positions. The whole lot is in on this mafia style, in the same way that public works or whatever authorised spending of R200mil+ on Zuma's kraal. One hand washes the other, they 'look after' Zuma so that he in turn would look after them.

Corruption, African style 101.
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Why would the ANC need Zuma to rob with impunity? The majority of politicians are corrupt. Anyone can do the job of pilfering.

I suppose the only difference is that another president may do it with more panache and in a more sustainable manner ;)
 
CR34M3 said:
And here's the beautiful nuance of this case that gets missed regularly:

http://dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2012-11-01-mfeketo-and-zuma-you-scratch-my-back-ill-scratch-yours
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You talk nuances, there are to many :)

Under normal circumstances I believe Hulley would be locked up, along with whomever gave the evidence to him (from the NPA) and under who's instruction)

What we must also remember is that the Judge who ordered the NPA to release the tapes (or transcripts)was quite right to 'reasonably' expect (term that holds a lot of water in law) the NPA to have them, as they were the ones that used the tapes (or transcripts) in their decision making process to drop all charges against JZ.

Any rational thinking person (Judge, commission, court of law) would come to the same conclusion that the NPA had the evidence that scuppered the prosecution of the individual.

Between the NPA, NIA and Hulley, there has just been obfuscation on the matter until a few days ago when Hulley finally admitted that he had the tapes.

The Supreme court judgement was made in March this year, with a timeline of 2 weeks to produce the said tapes (or transcripts).
It has taking 8months for Hulley to admit he has them, the NPA to state they haven't got them and what happened to them and the NIA is well, being their spooky selves as ever.

This seems to be a blatant disregard for justice, and our constitution, and although not directed at JZ himself, he is the central figure, with the authority to correct the situation, but chooses not to.

Make of that what you will, but it stinks to me, jmho.
 
blunomore said:
Why would the ANC need Zuma to rob with impunity? The majority of politicians are corrupt. Anyone can do the job of pilfering.

I suppose the only difference is that another president may do it with more panache and in a more sustainable manner ;)
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I suppose you're right, but having the head honcho in your pocket just makes it so much easier & safer. Lining your own pockets is one thing, being 'protected by the big man' while doing it is just the cherry on the cake.
 
Sneeky said:
You talk nuances, there are to many :)

Under normal circumstances I believe Hulley would be locked up, along with whomever gave the evidence to him (from the NPA) and under who's instruction)

What we must also remember is that the Judge who ordered the NPA to release the tapes (or transcripts)was quite right to 'reasonably' expect (term that holds a lot of water in law) the NPA to have them, as they were the ones that used the tapes (or transcripts) in their decision making process to drop all charges against JZ.

Any rational thinking person (Judge, commission, court of law) would come to the same conclusion that the NPA had the evidence that scuppered the prosecution of the individual.

Between the NPA, NIA and Hulley, there has just been obfuscation on the matter until a few days ago when Hulley finally admitted that he had the tapes.

The Supreme court judgement was made in March this year, with a timeline of 2 weeks to produce the said tapes (or transcripts).
It has taking 8months for Hulley to admit he has them, the NPA to state they haven't got them and what happened to them and the NIA is well, being their spooky selves as ever.

This seems to be a blatant disregard for justice, and our constitution, and although not directed at JZ himself, he is the central figure, with the authority to correct the situation, but chooses not to.

Make of that what you will, but it stinks to me, jmho.
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So what is the DA's next move ?
 
Honestly don't know (not qualified) what legal recourse there is for this but it's not going to go away, that's about all i can say with certainty.
Back to court and order Hulley to produce the evidence in question, if this is a technicality being used not to produce them, perhaps?

Failing that I do envisage a bit of a fight coming on the non-disclosure agreement between the accused's lawyer and the NPA, and perhaps even a challenge on the validity of that.

The lawyers are all licking their lips and window shopping at Aston Martin dealerships no doubt :D

edit: this also should really not be about the DA vs ANC.
The public in general should really pay close attention to this, I personally find it quite worrying, but that's just me.
 
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I spot a lawyer who's career is on the line with those "tapes"....
 
I see the Mail & Guardian published a story called 'Jacob Zuma's decade of destruction'.

After a 10-year legal war, President Jacob Zuma is trying to prevent the tapes that got him off the hook from being made public.

It is almost 10 years since the Mail & Guardian first revealed that the Scorpions were investigating then-deputy president Jacob Zuma – on November 29 2002.

Since then Zuma's decade-long battle to avoid prosecution on corruption charges has been the real political tsunami, ripping through institutions and careers.

It has led to the recall of a president, the factionalisation of the ruling party and its government, the destruction of the Scorpions, the departure of three national directors of public prosecutions and the tainting of the reputation of the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA).

Now Zuma's bid to avoid his day of reckoning – including accounting for the seed money that first funded what has become the Nkandla monstrosity – has entered a bitter new phase following the NPA's refusal to hand over copies of the so-called spy tapes.

http://mg.co.za/article/2012-11-02-00-jacob-zumas-decade-of-destruction
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Is this criminal really what the ANC has given us? Is this the will of the majority? If I was a black person I'd be ashamed.
 
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Hardly conducting themselves as innocent individuals wanting to clear their names would hey? Wow, just wow


As for Jiba, she = poison!
Zuma's personal little deployed cadre to take over from the disastrous Similane, all these people it seems just there to continue a cover up?
 
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NPA given 5 days to hand over 'spy tapes'

http://ewn.co.za/2013/08/16/NPA-given-five-days-to-hand-over-spy-tapes

CAPE TOWN - The North Gauteng High Court on Friday ordered the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) to hand over transcripts of the so-called ‘Zuma spy tapes’ to the Democratic Alliance (DA) within five days.

The DA has been fighting for access to the transcripts that were used by the NPA to drop corruption charges against President Jacob Zuma in 2009.

The tapes are understood to be recordings of conversations between former NPA head Bulelani Ngcuka and then Scorpions boss Leonard McCarthy about the timing of when to charge Zuma with corruption.

The tapes were used as the basis for the decision by the NPA to withdraw the charges.

The DA went to court, saying it has a right to the transcripts as it’s legally challenging that decision.

The party’s James Selfe is happy with the latest ruling.

“We feel vindicated in the very, very long legal battle that we’ve had to pursue in order to get this information. We believed all the way along that the decision to discontinue the prosecution against Jacob Zuma was irrational.”
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I'm not holding my breath.
 
5 days will pass by quickly, and the transcripts will magically no longer even exist.
 
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