Afrihost Business Uncapped Feedback

[AfriMan]

Many clients do not know their left from right, and for them an excellent experience is actually pretty bad unless you know any better. Again, it comes down to what device the person is using. People watching on a PC usually get away with using a bad stream, and the quality on it isn't that great.

Can you guys get an Apple TV3 and use that for your Hulu and Netflix tests?

I think it would be a mistake to assume that. Especially looking at the market where our clients generally come from we generally see a high level of tech savviness amongst our clients. In any respect, as my dad used to say "I don't understand art, but I know I don't like it". If someone is having a horrible experience, their level of expertise doesn't mean they can't express or distinguish a good or bad experience for them.

We do run tests with Apple TV, but we do test primarily over PC so that we can get meaningful diagnostic data.

 

[AfriMan]

Ok, so since this morning our internet connection has been very inconsistent, so was wondering if anybody can help.

We have the 10mb ADSL uncapped business bundle and its been running like a dream all year till today, so complaints started coming in this morning. Had a look, speedest shows 4mb download speeds. Have a look on the router (Billion BiPAC 7402GX) and it shows

Connected: true
Operational Mode: G.Dmt.BisPlus
Annex Type : AnnexA
Upstream: 1019900
Downstream: 20479900
SNR Margin(Upstream): 13.0 dB
SNR Margin(Downstream): 10.25 dB
Line Attenuation(Upstream): 2.5 dB
Line Attenuation(Downstream): 12.5 dB

Contacted Afrihost and they tell me the reason our internet is unstable is because we now have a VDSL line and thats the reason its so unstable since we only have a 10mb ADSL account connected to a 20mb Telkom VDSL exchange. So i asked is it possible we can go back to a 10mb ADSL account since our real speed has halved from the avg 8 to 4, and they said no its not possible.

So what must I do? Get a VDSL modem? and till then how do I get us back to a 10mb ADSL line?

You shouldn't have been moved over to VDSL unless yo voluntarily upgraded, so that's a little odd. It looks like you're connecting to ADSL2+ which, by all reports, doesn't seem to be as consistent as VDSL for 20Mmbps.

Can you PM me so I can poke around a little bit?

 

[Bona Botse]

I have a theory about the bad streaming on AH unshaped.

In a purely unshaped environment with no QoS whatsoever, P2P and usenet downloads contend for bandwidth better than video streams in my experience. So if you download a torrent going at full speed, and then try to stream a video, the video doesn't take priority (since there's absolutely no shaping) and so the video streaming suffers. I think that's what happening here.

Can someone who's struggling with Twitch turn on "business optimisation" in the control panel and see if Twitch still suffers?

 

[whatwhat]

We do run tests with Apple TV, but we do test primarily over PC so that we can get meaningful diagnostic data.

You cannot compare PC streams to the streams you get from devices. I've said many times that on PC the stream looks good, and the stream is also of very low quality (even with all the HD boxes ticked). You cannot compare it to the quality of the stream when playing on a device like the Amazon FireTV, Roku3 or Apple TV3.

All the of the streams might say "1080p" but they have different profiles, ie they require more bandwith to go through. It's the device streaming that is struggling, so yes. I stick to my idea that when we are being told streaming is fine, it is because it is being checked against devices that have really low bandwith requirements.

 

[Bona Botse]

You cannot compare PC streams to the streams you get from devices. I've said many times that on PC the stream looks good, and the stream is also of very low quality (even with all the HD boxes ticked). You cannot compare it to the quality of the stream when playing on a device like the Amazon FireTV, Roku3 or Apple TV3.

All the of the streams might say "1080p" but they have different profiles, ie they require more bandwith to go through. It's the device streaming that is struggling, so yes. I stick to my idea that when we are being told streaming is fine, it is because it is being checked against devices that have really low bandwith requirements.

It's like those YIFY 1080p linux distros that come in at less than 2GB a pop...

 

[AfriGuy]

You cannot compare PC streams to the streams you get from devices. I've said many times that on PC the stream looks good, and the stream is also of very low quality (even with all the HD boxes ticked). You cannot compare it to the quality of the stream when playing on a device like the Amazon FireTV, Roku3 or Apple TV3.

All the of the streams might say "1080p" but they have different profiles, ie they require more bandwith to go through. It's the device streaming that is struggling, so yes. I stick to my idea that when we are being told streaming is fine, it is because it is being checked against devices that have really low bandwith requirements.

I'd like to understand more about this, I'll admit - I'm a little confused.
Surely the source, how the data travels and output are the same across a PC, AppleTV, Chromecast or tablet?

I'm genuinely interested

 

[whatwhat]

I'd like to understand more about this, I'll admit - I'm a little confused.
Surely the source, how the data travels and output are the same across a PC, AppleTV, Chromecast or tablet?

I'm genuinely interested

The source and how the data travels is the same, but each device has different demands on how much data it needs. This depends on the device that you using, some of them have faster processors than other so you can compress data more when you send it to them and they will be able to uncompress it. Some devices (like a phone) you don't want the processor to work so hard as it will eat battery so you might send them a slightly less compressed stream.

Then you also get the quality of the stream. I can send you a 2 hour long MKV file that is 1080p but 2GB in size. It will be the whole movie the quality will be very low when you watch it on your TV, but will be very acceptable if you watch it on a small screen like an iPhone or iPad.

If you take the same movie and compress it so that the movie has a higher bitrate, you will probably end up with something that is around 7-10GB in size. That will play fine on your TV.

So, your PC might request the stream that is equivalent to the 2GB file since it can upscale in your graphics card. Your ATV3 might not have that luxury, and it would request the higher stream.

Same thing when watching SuperSport in HD vs watching the SuperSport stream. The one can look really good where the other one is acceptable but the picture is very soft.

I'll try and take some photos tonight, showing the difference in quality between an episode of Masterchef on Hulu on a PC vs Hulu on FireTV vs a 720p download. The Hulu on PC and the 720p downloaded are comparable, but the Hulu on FireTV is on another planet in terms of quality.

 

[AfriMan]

The source and how the data travels is the same, but each device has different demands on how much data it needs. This depends on the device that you using, some of them have faster processors than other so you can compress data more when you send it to them and they will be able to uncompress it. Some devices (like a phone) you don't want the processor to work so hard as it will eat battery so you might send them a slightly less compressed stream.

Then you also get the quality of the stream. I can send you a 2 hour long MKV file that is 1080p but 2GB in size. It will be the whole movie the quality will be very low when you watch it on your TV, but will be very acceptable if you watch it on a small screen like an iPhone or iPad.

If you take the same movie and compress it so that the movie has a higher bitrate, you will probably end up with something that is around 7-10GB in size. That will play fine on your TV.

So, your PC might request the stream that is equivalent to the 2GB file since it can upscale in your graphics card. Your ATV3 might not have that luxury, and it would request the higher stream.

Same thing when watching SuperSport in HD vs watching the SuperSport stream. The one can look really good where the other one is acceptable but the picture is very soft.

I'll try and take some photos tonight, showing the difference in quality between an episode of Masterchef on Hulu on a PC vs Hulu on FireTV vs a 720p download. The Hulu on PC and the 720p downloaded are comparable, but the Hulu on FireTV is on another planet in terms of quality.

Most services would actually send different content to the different devices so I think it's probably not the device so much as the content.

 

[Bursty-dude]

Did you manage to test your account on a different line to prove that the account itself is not performing well?

Everything else works 100%.
Downloads are going like a bomb, program updates and such are 100%, it it just video streaming that sucks.

It was perfect about a month ago.
I could have torrents downloading in the background, the SO could be browsing on the Tab2 via Wifi and I could watch a Youtube vid at 720p or sometimes 1080p with no buffering issues, all at the same time.

Now if I want to watch a Youtube vid at anything resembling decent quality, or any other streaming vid, I make sure there are no other devices connected via Wifi, no downloads, etc and then let it buffer for about 5 or 10 minutes before attempting to watch it.

And no, I have not tested my account on another line yet. The only other person I know in the area who has Telkom ADSL line is our neighbour across the road and he works weird hours so we are not here at the same time most days.

 

[AfriMan]

Everything else works 100%.
Downloads are going like a bomb, program updates and such are 100%, it it just video streaming that sucks.

It was perfect about a month ago.
I could have torrents downloading in the background, the SO could be browsing on the Tab2 via Wifi and I could watch a Youtube vid at 720p or sometimes 1080p with no buffering issues, all at the same time.

Now if I want to watch a Youtube vid at anything resembling decent quality, or any other streaming vid, I make sure there are no other devices connected via Wifi, no downloads, etc and then let it buffer for about 5 or 10 minutes before attempting to watch it.

And no, I have not tested my account on another line yet. The only other person I know in the area who has Telkom ADSL line is our neighbour across the road and he works weird hours so we are not here at the same time most days.

This is definitely not consistent with my tests and other general reports, so I don't think this is a widespread issue. But a quick way to prove this would be to take your account and use it on another line, if the experience is the same, then we can confirm this and test further. If the experience is different, then we will have to consider other factors like local network and DNS settings, your line, etc.

If you can't test on another line, drop me a PM and I'll test your account on my own line and see if I can reproduce what you are experiencing.

 

[whatwhat]

Most services would actually send different content to the different devices so I think it's probably not the device so much as the content.

Regardless of how it is phrased, different devices have different requirements. On AH the devices that I use just do not get what they require on a 20Mb business account to work without dropping their quality every minute, but on WebAfrica home or business they work 100%. I've even tried it on a WebAfrica 10Mb account (home and business) and it worked perfect.

 

[AfriMan]

Regardless of how it is phrased, different devices have different requirements. On AH the devices that I use just do not get what they require on a 20Mb business account to work without dropping their quality every minute, but on WebAfrica home or business they work 100%. I've even tried it on a WebAfrica 10Mb account (home and business) and it worked perfect.

It would be really difficult to test every single device and combination/permutation of hardware, which is why we use PC testing as a baseline. It could well be that certain TV's or streaming devices may perform differently under different conditions, so we need to figure out how to troubleshoot around this, or to try to get diagnostics as available directly from your installation/setup.

 

[whatwhat]

It would be really difficult to test every single device and combination/permutation of hardware, which is why we use PC testing as a baseline. It could well be that certain TV's or streaming devices may perform differently under different conditions, so we need to figure out how to troubleshoot around this, or to try to get diagnostics as available directly from your installation/setup.

Dude, I've sent you the MTR and the other stats as comparison. I don't know what else you guys need, but I know I'm not going to keep paying R2500 a month to wait around for it to get fixed. There is something in the MTN network that just doesn't do well with streaming, but most ISPs are able to get it right.

 

[cortexenslaver]

Good morning

This morning, as with the last 2 weeks there has been no throughput on my account at exactly 08:00. This does happen still during the day at random times. I usually have to reset the router to be able to use my account. This is only on AH... all other accounts are working.

@AfriMan/AfriGuy/AfriGirl - could someone please take a look at my account... The times coincide with times you may shape normal uncapped accounts. Maybe somehow I am being routed through the wrong servers, or having the wrong policies applied to my Business account. I have verified that it is not my ADSL line, and congestion is not a factor in my area (especially at 08:00 every morning).

 

[cortexenslaver]

International speeds are all over the place

 

[AfriMan]

Dude, I've sent you the MTR and the other stats as comparison. I don't know what else you guys need, but I know I'm not going to keep paying R2500 a month to wait around for it to get fixed. There is something in the MTN network that just doesn't do well with streaming, but most ISPs are able to get it right.

We'll continue to test on our side and work on improving where we can. We can only do so when we are able to replicate those experiences, so its important that we focus on doing that so we can give our network team specific information and results to act on.

 

[Rohan]

Good morning

This morning, as with the last 2 weeks there has been no throughput on my account at exactly 08:00. This does happen still during the day at random times. I usually have to reset the router to be able to use my account. This is only on AH... all other accounts are working.

@AfriMan/AfriGuy/AfriGirl - could someone please take a look at my account... The times coincide with times you may shape normal uncapped accounts. Maybe somehow I am being routed through the wrong servers, or having the wrong policies applied to my Business account. I have verified that it is not my ADSL line, and congestion is not a factor in my area (especially at 08:00 every morning).

Having the same problem, have to reset my modem every morning otherwise I am stuck at 100 to 200kb/s on my 10m line. This morning though it is stuck at 4m speeds and won't go up even after a reset. Even the capped 1gb afrihost account only runs at 4m. My capped Web Africa account runs at full 10m speed though.

 

[whatwhat]

We'll continue to test on our side and work on improving where we can. We can only do so when we are able to replicate those experiences, so its important that we focus on doing that so we can give our network team specific information and results to act on.

No that's great. I'd really be interested to know if you actually give it to the technical people or just bin your PMs. Like I said, I've sent you those details and I have heard nothing from you or your technical team, and I'm a R2500 a month business customer. It's obvious that you have no interest in fixing the problem, because it works on your machine.

 

[AfriMan]

Having the same problem, have to reset my modem every morning otherwise I am stuck at 100 to 200kb/s on my 10m line. This morning though it is stuck at 4m speeds and won't go up even after a reset. Even the capped 1gb afrihost account only runs at 4m. My capped Web Africa account runs at full 10m speed though.

We'll need to look into this. It does sound like it's an issue with how we're handling your profile. Can you please drop me a PM?

 

[AfriMan]

No that's great. I'd really be interested to know if you actually give it to the technical people or just bin your PMs. Like I said, I've sent you those details and I have heard nothing from you or your technical team, and I'm a R2500 a month business customer. It's obvious that you have no interest in fixing the problem, because it works on your machine.

We're definitely interested to try to improve every client's individual experience, and I have passed all your test results onto our team to to try to replicate or test on our side.