Afrikaans schools, discriminatory?

[Azbubu]

Let's be honest, Afrikaans won't help you anywhere besides Pretoria and parts of the FS. Rather be "forced" a language that has universal appeal.

Disclaimer : post not to be misconstrued as racial.

 

[Nicodeamus]

I think that would be a great idea because the learners speak Zulu (almost exclusively) as a mother tongue.

|Edit

Now that I think about it, it was always like that in the past. We did SS-A, SS-B, Standard 1 and 2 in Zulu. We only started with English medium in Standard 3 onwards.
If you compare our literacy levels to kids of today, you can clearly see the benefit of mother tongue instruction in the beginning.

yeah, I bet in 10 years time or so we might actually have some Zulu primary schools, there is a lot of effort going into that language. I am not so sure about the other African languages.

 

[Nicodeamus]

Let's be honest, Afrikaans won't help you anywhere besides Pretoria and parts of the FS. Rather be "forced" a language that has universal appeal.

Disclaimer : post not to be misconstrued as racial.

What if you work and live in Pretoria? French has no usage outside the Franco-globe, Spanish has no usage outside South America, English has no usage in Russia!

If you feel you can get by without it fine, but do not choose on behalf of others who would like to take the time and effort learning the language, parents currently have a choice where to send their children to and to be really honest with you, the anti-afrikaans sentiment is always tied with race and apartheid rather than logic.

 

[MightyMuffinMan]

+1 for Afrikaans being an African language.

I don't see why Afrikaans schools have to change, 99% of the time they cater for the demographic of students that live in their area.

you know whats sad is seeing a grown afrikaans man with a degree struggle to string together a good English sentence vs any non-afrikaaner with a degree who has no problem with speaking english. This is just my observation.

why is this so? because of this poor policy of teaching in afrikaans. In other schools english is used as the medium of instruction to force the student to use the language that he does not use at home so that he will one day be more competitive in the workplace.

English is the language the world and most different cultural groups use to converse.

 

[Nicodeamus]

you know whats sad is seeing a grown afrikaans man with a degree struggle to string together a good English sentence vs any non-afrikaaner with a degree who has no problem with speaking english. This is just my observation.

That is just a to simply generalization to accept it as a fact. You're taking isolated events and then you want to beat them into a certain view. I believe that this has more to do with your personal prejudice against Afrikaans than anything else.

why is this so? because of this poor policy of teaching in afrikaans. In other schools english is used as the medium of instruction to force the student to use the language that he does not use at home so that he will one day be more competitive in the workplace.

English is the language the world and most different cultural groups use to converse.

Yet numerous studies have proven the opposite, it is better to teach a children in his home language first then go over to a 2nd language at a later stage. All tertiary educated people in South Africa will have English text books and will study something in English along the way, which is why I find your view strange.

English is probably the most important world language, we get that, but tell me how is it more beneficial to know just 1 language than two? I just can't follow your logic.

 

[MightyMuffinMan]

I find it very difficult to believe that at UP they would ask you questions in Afrikaans if you cannot speak it, they have a two language policy.

see my previous post about the fairness that you mentioned. Also I chose not to go to UP when I visited the residences and saw the "white" only residence that was like that "because tuks aims to allow students who have similar cultural backgrounds to stay in the same residence so they don't feel uncomfortable and are able to communicate more easily with their flat mates etc"

 

[Nicodeamus]

see my previous post about the fairness that you mentioned. Also I chose not to go to UP when I visited the residences and saw the "white" only residence that was like that "because tuks aims to allow students who have similar cultural backgrounds to stay in the same residence so they don't feel uncomfortable and are able to communicate more easily with their flat mates etc"

This is not even true, tuks residents have a quota, even their dorms have a quota. I'm personally against quotas, but you're facts just aren't wrong. If students choose to associate themselves according to whatever then WHY should someone else dictate their lives for them and tell them it is wrong?

 

[MightyMuffinMan]

That is just a to simply generalization to accept it as a fact. You're taking isolated events and then you want to beat them into a certain view. I believe that this has more to do with your personal prejudice against Afrikaans than anything else.

like I said IMO.

Yet numerous studies have proven the opposite, it is better to teach a children in his home language first then go over to a 2nd language at a later stage. All tertiary educated people in South Africa will have English text books and will study something in English along the way, which is why I find your view strange.

agreed but you failed to see that its about having afrikaans forced on you that's the issue. At the school OP mentioned he is forced to have afrikaans from grade 10 onwards.

Stellenbosch has a similar policy when teaching medicine. They make it clear that some of their classes will only be taught in afrikaans. Thsi pretty much excludes studing medicine at Stellenbosch for many South Africans. BTW its in their prospectus

But I guess its not racism. You know I wonder what many people would say if they decided to suddenly only teach certain classes at UKZN in zulu only? We accept the use of compulsory afrikaans because thats the way it was and simple put thats the way it will be.

 

[MightyMuffinMan]

This is not even true, tuks residents have a quota, even their dorms have a quota. I'm personally against quotas, but you're facts just aren't wrong. If students choose to associate themselves according to whatever then WHY should someone else dictate their lives for them and tell them it is wrong?

My facts are correct but they are 5 years old. Like I said I chose not to go to that place to study for the reasons I mentioned. Sad that that they had to introduce qoutas, must have been after the complaints :O

Strikingly UKZN, U of Transkei and Medunsa have no qoutas for their residences

Sorry this is offtopic.

 

[Nicodeamus]

like I said IMO.

agreed but you failed to see that its about having afrikaans forced on you that's the issue. At the school OP mentioned he is forced to have afrikaans from grade 10 onwards.

I agree, therefore go to a school that doesn't offer it, or ask the school to accommodate another language.

Stellenbosch has a similar policy when teaching medicine. They make it clear that some of their classes will only be taught in afrikaans. Thsi pretty much excludes studing medicine at Stellenbosch for many South Africans. BTW its in their prospectus

Stellenbosch to my knowledge have all their notes in English and their classes are bilingual. However the greatest concentration of Afrikaans speakers are in the western cape, this is why Stellenbosch is located where it is.

But I guess its not racism. You know I wonder what many people would say if they decided to suddenly only teach certain classes at UKZN in zulu only? We accept the use of compulsory afrikaans because thats the way it was and simple put thats the way it will be.

I would learn the language or go to another university. I taught myself German so I could study further in Germany or somewhere else in the German countries (if I get in that is), they have a German-English-French policy at many of their universities. Should I go scream discrimination?

I wouldn't let a language such as Afrikaans or Zulu or whatever hold me back if I want to achieve my goal, even if it takes me an extra year.

 

[Nicodeamus]

My facts are correct but they are 5 years old. Like I said I chose not to go to that place to study for the reasons I mentioned. Sad that that they had to introduce qoutas, must have been after the complaints :O

Strikingly UKZN, U of Transkei and Medunsa have no qoutas for their residences

Sorry this is offtopic.

yeah, ironically it is always the Afrikaans universities that have to conform to quota demands. That is a bit of double standards on government's behalf.

 

[hawker]

see my previous post about the fairness that you mentioned. Also I chose not to go to UP when I visited the residences and saw the "white" only residence that was like that "because tuks aims to allow students who have similar cultural backgrounds to stay in the same residence so they don't feel uncomfortable and are able to communicate more easily with their flat mates etc"

There are no "white only" residences @ UP. WTF dude. In fact residences aren't allowed to only group whites in a dorm, or only blacks in a dorm.

 

[hawker]

Stellenbosch has a similar policy when teaching medicine. They make it clear that some of their classes will only be taught in afrikaans. Thsi pretty much excludes studing medicine at Stellenbosch for many South Africans. BTW its in their prospectus

I call BS on this.

One of my friends, I'm going to mention her race because it's the only way to prove my point. A black girl, went to an english high school is now studying medicine at Stellenbosch and doing very well(3rd year now). I'm pretty sure if she can do it, most south africans could also do it, it's not about the language it's about the will and the drive to succeed.

I take some of my classes in Afrikaans simply because the lecturers are better than the English ones even though English is my home language!

 

[Lounger]

This reminds of a friend who does not speak afrikaans. he studies for his post graduate degree in Obstetrics (specialist). He studies in KZN and does neither speak nor understand english. He goes to Pretoria for his exams and in his oral examination (this is an exam that you are invited to after passing the written paper) his examiner refuses to speak english (even though he can and this is an official exam) and asks him the oral questions in Afrikaans even though he makes it clear he does not understand the questions.

he fails and has no recourse as he will have to be examined 6 months later by this mans' colleagues and friends.

Afrikaans is being used as an excuse for segregation. period. And it is still the language of oppression IMO. I'm indian and will probable never send my kids to a school here they are forced to speak afrikaans.

trust me in the academic world racism is alive and well. My point is that it is still being used to control access to education and thats not gonna change.

Well the Cape is full of Afrikaans speakers of all hues. Why should that be discriminatory?

 

[PsyWulf]

In response to OP's complaint: Being forced to follow a democratic choice sucks,welcome to democracy,now if it was a big enough problem you could move to where your preferred second language was given as an option. No gun was held to your head forcing you to go to school there,your parents made an active decision. The rules say 2 languages,english plus main secondary -> the school selected afrikaans as the secondary -> now you trot in and expect special treatment? If it isn't 51% state sponsored education they have no say other than recommending specific languages per demographic

Sorry if not all schools can cater to the whims of individual students,the needs of the many > you

That said,I survived the moves between english/afrikaans/tswana/english again and I feel quite certain they didn't discriminate by only offering the necessary

 

[alloytoo]

It's complete BS that you have to be forced to take Afrikaans.

This is purely a resource issue.

I was forced to take Latin, I would have preferred Klingon.

 

[alloytoo]

I believe that the education department must also change their policy and allow pupils to have a choice of only studying one language from Grade 10 onwards.

I'd agree with this except where the medium of instruction is not English, In which case the school should make English second language compulsary.

 

[MightyMuffinMan]

I call BS on this.

One of my friends, I'm going to mention her race because it's the only way to prove my point. A black girl, went to an english high school is now studying medicine at Stellenbosch and doing very well(3rd year now). I'm pretty sure if she can do it, most south africans could also do it, it's not about the language it's about the will and the drive to succeed.

I take some of my classes in Afrikaans simply because the lecturers are better than the English ones even though English is my home language!

lol, but she'll never get a cum laude degree. trust me mate. I actually am a doctor and have visited UP in 2004 and read the Stellenbosch prospectus in 2004 and I also have many friends who studied at Stellenbosch med school. I might just have more knowledge regarding med school training than the average joe.

Anyway the point is that it should not be COMPULSORY yet it is made to be compulsory by rules that can't be justified. Recent Orthopaedic final exams (FCOS). Approx 37 grads are invited to final oral exams... 14 white grads pass and 1 indian (point is alot of stuff get mixed up) . but I guess the rest of the guys were not up to standard at that level of training after passing their written parts and than being invited to the exams...Some candidates where unfairly questioned in Afrikaans even though they could not speak the language. can't complain cos the same profs (or their friends) are gonna examine you next time.

look say what you want but academia is ZA is still affected by Race and language (afrikaans) has a large part to play in it. both negative and positive.

Edit: IMO (NB) it appears largely negative with regards to non afrikaaners (afrikaans speaking people) who are in the main non-white

 

[Lounger]

This is purely a resource issue.

I was forced to take Latin, I would have preferred Klingon.

Nothing wrong with learning a language that had a huge impact on English. The declension system will also help in understanding other languages.

 

[hawker]

lol, but she'll never get a cum laude degree. trust me mate.

You know this how?