Afrikaans schools, discriminatory?

[MightyMuffinMan]

You know this how?

cos not ALL teaching is in English. How you gonna learn something in a ward round when your consultant explains the patients disease to the students in Afrikaans? You think he gonna stop apologize and than reexplain in english. Medicine is half practical and if your teacher chooses to use afrikaans and you are not fluent than you not gonna get half of what he is saying.

Many doctors who are non-afrikaaner are treated differently in the CTN central hospitals. Their work loads are lsightly larger and their topics for presentations etc are generally more difficult. (this is form what a few people have told me). And many find the language barrier (because thats what it is) a problem.

Why is it still used when english has become a global language (french being a bit difficult for us to use as we are a former english colony)?
Why can all Universities not conform to the internationally accepted language of english?
Why does some one have to speak in afrikaans when they can speak english and they know that they have non-afrikaaners in a group?
Why force and individual to be examined in afrikaans?
elitism?

 

[Nicodeamus]

MightyMuffinMan to be truly honest, I believe that your blind and ridiculous hatred for Afrikaans and Afrikaners forced you too paint the world under a collectivism, every time you see something go wrong in the hospital or at varsities then you automatically try and attribute that to being a Afrikaans, racist, language barrier without looking at the circumstance and even if you can't then you look for reasons to connect that to Afrikaans. I read through all you're response and I really find it hard to believe that universities force you to be examined in on language when they have a clear language policy. In fact why don't the candidates just mention this and demand to be examined in English, if I couldn't speak Afrikaans and someone examined me in this then I would just ask him to speak English and inform him that I paid for the course, the Professors have to abide to the language policies, I know that Tukkies is very strict on this.

Whether you like it or not, the Afrikaans community (not just Afrikaners) are very passionate about their language and will demand for it to be taught to their children, hell I heard that Solidarity is even trying to set up another Afrikaans university, they already set up a college. If they pay for Afrikaans classes then I simply do not see why they should take up English just 'because' it is the international language. All private hospitals in Pretoria that I have been too have all their forms and signs in Afrikaans, in fact I find it even difficult to explain basic biological stuff in English, because I don't need it when I go to a doctor. The language is alive and well and is going nowhere. If you don't like, it avoid using it, but don't bring everyone down to the the ignorant level and don't try and force everyone to go English 'just because it is English'.

The Chances are that Mandarin might become an important world language will you still ask for your children to be educated in English by then?

 

[Milano]

All those reasons might be valid, but at the same time it doesn't do much to cover the fact that Afrikaans schools' may aim in this day and age is to keep away certain people from certain race groups.

I think we should also watch our emotions, logical debates usually work

Lolz. Logical unemotional discussion? You already advised that the racist motives are a fact

 

[hawker]

So because its not all in English someone can't graduate cum Laude? Please man, get a grip.

 

[Mila]

Why is it still used when english has become a global language (french being a bit difficult for us to use as we are a former english colony)?

French is the language mostly spoken on the African continent.

Why should the French be taught in French when they were ruled by the British for decades?

Just because the poms tried to take overs the world does nitmean we all have to lie down an play by their rules. Must say the Afrikaaners were a gutsy bunch for creating their own language. Stuff the oppressor we will not conform to their ways.

Your arguments does not make sense. Look at the universities being placed under administration. doesn't seem like Afrikaans is that backwards does it?

http://www.universityworldnews.com/article.php?story=20111021213002475

Funny how the first heart transplant was done by a guy with a surname Barnard. That was taught medicine in an afrikaans uni.

I also resent the fact that someone here would talk down on Afrikaans people with an accent when 80% of our country has some kind of accent when they speak English. For that matter most of the world speak English in some bastard way.

If you do not like Afrikaans. Go to the English university. My language is a proudly African language. I will speak it I will teach it and I will keep on spreading it. We did not conform. We are not sheep. We are individuals. If you like Being one of the masses enjoy it. As long as good teachers are Afrikaans and there are people that will live from bread and water to send their children to be taught in afrikaans you will not see it die out.

 

[Mila]

So because its not all in English someone can't graduate cum Laude? Please man, get a grip.

Those poor dumb Germans, French, Chinese, swedish people! Imagine they can never ever do it because they are not taught in English.. Shame.

 

[alloytoo]

Nothing wrong with learning a language that had a huge impact on English. The declension system will also help in understanding other languages.

In retrospect yes, then, not so much

 

[alloytoo]

The Chances are that Mandarin might become an important world language will you still ask for your children to be educated in English by then?

I doubt this will come to pass.

English (as a second language) is likely to remain the defacto world language.

 

[alloytoo]

I also resent the fact that someone here would talk down on Afrikaans people with an accent when 80% of our country has some kind of accent when they speak English. For that matter most of the world speak English in some bastard way.

Living outside South Africa I persistantly interact with a multitude of accents. The other day I encountered a gentleman whose accent I simple could not descern.

He just didn't seem to have an accent at all.

That was because he came from my home town.

 

[Sly21C]

What if you work and live in Pretoria? French has no usage outside the Franco-globe, Spanish has no usage outside South America, English has no usage in Russia!

If you feel you can get by without it fine, but do not choose on behalf of others who would like to take the time and effort learning the language, parents currently have a choice where to send their children to and to be really honest with you, the anti-afrikaans sentiment is always tied with race and apartheid rather than logic.

I fail to understand why you find it totally acceptable not to give students a choice as to what 2nd language subject they'd like to take. I have no issue with Afrikaans, I have an issue with students not being given a choice as to what 2nd language subject they would like to learn. You keep on saying school governing bodies decide on policy and if someone doesn't like that policy then they can go where the sun doesn't shine, I detest that attitude. I don't hate Afrikaans, I respect everyone that is proud of their Afrikaans language but I dislike the idea of Afrikaans being offered a compulsory 2nd language subject.

I think everyone reading this must get it into their heads that just because I dislike the idea or practice of students being compelled to take Afrikaans as a 2nd language doesn't mean I have anything against the Afrikaans language, I do not. But you will be very naive or ignorant if you believe that the Afrikaans language is not used as a tool by some people (dinosaurs) to discriminate, racists didn't just disappear after 1994 you know.......

 

[MightyMuffinMan]

Funny how the first heart transplant was done by a guy with a surname Barnard. That was taught medicine in an afrikaans uni.

agreed, but he is an afrikaaner.

I read through all you're response and I really find it hard to believe that universities force you to be examined in on language when they have a clear language policy. In fact why don't the candidates just mention this and demand to be examined in English, if I couldn't speak Afrikaans and someone examined me in this then I would just ask him to speak English and inform him that I paid for the course, the Professors have to abide to the language policies, I know that Tukkies is very strict on this.

perhaps you don't understand that in medicine training its also about who you know. You complain about an examiner who is internationally rcognised, who you think is gonna suffer? The other examiners are gonna take note of the complainers.

BTW at specialist level exams there are only 1/2 profs per province which means that they are only about 15 or so examiners who all know each other.

You dont really have a choice. Look many registrars know that they have a more fair chance of passing if they write in UKZN than if they write in CTN and this is largely a language issue. Can't answer a question asked in a language you don't speak.

 

[Mila]

So an afrikaaner would not be able to do it when taught in english?
No you still do not add up.

Its not about can't it is about how much you want it. Nelson Mandela became a lawyer because he wanted to. And he studied in afrikaans, instead of blaming it he used it.

 

[binkybozo]

I fail to understand why you find it totally acceptable not to give students a choice as to what 2nd language subject they'd like to take. I have not issue with Afrikaans, I have an issue with students not being given a choice as to what 2nd language subject they would like to learn. You keep on saying school governing bodies decide on policy and if someone doesn't like that policy then they can go where the sun doesn't shine, I detest that attitude. I don't hate Afrikaans, I respect everyone that is proud of their Afrikaans language but I dislike the idea of Afrikaans being offered a compulsory 2nd language subject.

I think everyone reading this must get it into their heads that just because I dislike the idea or practice of students being compelled to take Afrikaans as a 2nd language doesn't mean I have anything against the Afrikaans language, I do not. But you will be very naive or ignorant if you believe that the Afrikaans language is not used as a tool by some people (dinosaurs) to discriminate, racists didn't just disappear after 1994 you know.......

I find it very difficult to believe that you do not like Afrikaaners. Look at the title of your post "Afrikaans schools, Discriminatory?" With that title you are not dissing the language but a group of people. Also the repeated use of the word "dinosaur" when describing "some people" ie Afrikaaners in your posts just adds to the fact that you really don't care for Afrikaaners.

As I said to you in an earlier post there are not enough qualified teachers to teach African languages. Most schools offer Afrikaans as a second language because most of the time they ONLY have Afrikaans teachers filling the posts for language teachers.

You say you know lots of people who can teach African languages then please tell them to get to the Dept. of Education and apply for posts in their respective language departments that have remained open for years.

Also a few years ago my S/O's cousin did her secondary (public)schooling in Centurion. She knows Afrikaans, English and oh she took Zulu all through her secondary (public) schooling. So there are public schools (or at least one) in Centurion that offer other African Languages besides Afrikaans so perhaps you should talk to your family on why they sent you to a school that taught Afrikaans and not one of the other African languages.

 

[Mila]

You say you know lots of people who can teach African languages then please tell them to get to the Dept. of Education and apply for posts in their respective language departments that have remained open for years.
.

If it was that easy. I can teach people to speak afrikaans to. The rules that make the language work is not that easy to teach. My mother can speak Zulu, Xhosa, Afrikaans English and German. She always said that she can teach me words but not the language. ( Probably where I got my passion for languages from) I can not understand why people will be angry at being taught a tool. And they can shout all they want about not using afrikaans. They lie. Knowing what a person is saying and being able to reply is something that you can never take away from people that understands afrikaans.

One day they will sit in deep Northern Cape with everybody just speaking afrikaans, and they will thank their school for teaching them afrikaans.

You might never speak it but you will always understand it. Sly wants to change the ANCYL from the inside. Hewill need to be able to go to Orania and listen. And how easy would it be to understand people in their own language.

 

[Sly21C]

I find it very difficult to believe that you do not like Afrikaaners. Look at the title of your post "Afrikaans schools, Discriminatory?" With that title you are not dissing the language but a group of people. Also the repeated use of the word "dinosaur" when describing "some people" ie Afrikaaners in your posts just adds to the fact that you really don't care for Afrikaaners.

I don't hate the Afrikaans language, and Afrikaaners themselves, I hate certain policies adopted at certain schools. I decided on the title because it is a question, not a statement, hence the "?". I do feel that schools with Afrikaans as their medium of instruction discriminate, if we want to build a rainbow nation then why persist using Afrikaans knowing full well that most people in this country don't understand it? Do black people have to learn Afrikaans in order to socialize/work with people who prefer to speak Afrikaans, what are we as South Africans trying to build here? This has been debated and I won't get into that. I used the term "dinosaur" to describe a policy adopted by most model C schools. I also used it to describe certain people who happen to be Afrikaner, if that makes me racist and an Afrikaner hater then so be it. I said it before that I'm not here to insult people, but I'm also not here to nurse people's feelings and egos. If I don't care for Afrikaaners then it's safe to say you also don't care for other 9 official languages?

As I said to you in an earlier post there are not enough qualified teachers to teach African languages. Most schools offer Afrikaans as a second language because most of the time they ONLY have Afrikaans teachers filling the posts for language teachers.

You say you know lots of people who can teach African languages then please tell them to get to the Dept. of Education and apply for posts in their respective language departments that have remained open for years.

Like I also said before, that is just an excuse. I say this because if indeed well qualified Zulu, Sotho or Tsonga teachers are found and hired by model C schools, will that change a school's policy of "forcing" students to take Afrikaans as their second language? I think not, Zulu or Sotho subjects will ONLY be offered as third languages, correct me if's I'm wrong.

Also a few years ago my S/O's cousin did her secondary (public)schooling in Centurion. She knows Afrikaans, English and oh she took Zulu all through her secondary (public) schooling. So there are public schools (or at least one) in Centurion that offer other African Languages besides Afrikaans so perhaps you should talk to your family on why they sent you to a school that taught Afrikaans and not one of the other African languages.

Did your significant other's cousin take Zulu as a second language or third language? Does the school in Centurion offer pupils a choice to take Zulu as a 2nd language? Or are those pupils "forced" to take English and Afrikaans? I don't think you understand my argument at all. There can be a model C school that offers 9 African languages, well that's great, but if that school still "forces" its students to take Afrikaans as a second language then I will still have a problem. I don't hate Afrikaans, I just want people to have a choice. If you still think I hate Afrikaans then I'm sorry.

 

[Sly21C]

You might never speak it but you will always understand it. Sly wants to change the ANCYL from the inside. He will need to be able to go to Orania and listen. And how easy would it be to understand people in their own language.

If people in Orania want to speak to me they must do it in English, I am communicating with you in English. I agree that it is easier to understand people if you speak their language but we live in South Africa, a country with 11 official languages, not 2. If you think I'm in the ANCYL for the sole purpose of being one of a few people to start a revolt against Malema and keep quite about other issues that I find unfair then sorry.

 

[hawker]

I don't hate the Afrikaans language, and Afrikaaners themselves, I hate certain policies adopted at certain schools. I decided on the title because it is a question, not a statement, hence the "?". I do feel that schools with Afrikaans as their medium of instruction discriminate, if we want to build a rainbow nation then why persist using Afrikaans knowing full well that most people in this country don't understand it?.

Where do you get your facts from? Most people in this country can understand Afrikaans(except maybe people from KZN).

What is your real agenda here?

 

[PsyWulf]

I think everyone reading this must get it into their heads that just because I dislike the idea or practice of students being compelled to take Afrikaans as a 2nd language doesn't mean I have anything against the Afrikaans language, I do not. But you will be very naive or ignorant if you believe that the Afrikaans language is not used as a tool by some people (dinosaurs) to discriminate, racists didn't just disappear after 1994 you know.......

1. You are being obstinate and cry foul because you were in a dual-medium school that didn't bend to offer you alternatives
2. I suspect due to your personal bias you are making it a bigger issue than it really is

Going to an afrikaans/english school and then crying when mommy and daddy won't object to them force feeding you a language isn't the pinnacle of logical arguments

 

[hawker]

If people in Orania want to speak to me they must do it in English, I am communicating with you in English. I agree that it is easier to understand people if you speak their language but we live in South Africa, a country with 11 official languages, not 2. If you think I'm in the ANCYL for the sole purpose of being one of a few people to start a revolt against Malema and keep quite about other issues that I find unfair then sorry.

Stop contradicting yourself. If Afrikaans is an official language it can't be discriminatory to have a school that educates it's learners using one of our country's official languages. If you want to speak to people in Orania, they don't HAVE to speak to you in English. You are a guest, and as such you should conform to what they do. But good manners/common decency doesn't seem to exist within the ANCYL. If you go and visit somebodies home you don't walk in and start telling them what language they should speak, or how they should cook their food etc etc. All the ANCYL is demand,demand demand.

 

[DigitalSoldier]

I don't hate the Afrikaans language, and Afrikaaners themselves, I hate certain policies adopted at certain schools. I decided on the title because it is a question, not a statement, hence the "?". I do feel that schools with Afrikaans as their medium of instruction discriminate, if we want to build a rainbow nation then why persist using Afrikaans knowing full well that most people in this country don't understand it? Do black people have to learn Afrikaans in order to socialize/work with people who prefer to speak Afrikaans, what are we as South Africans trying to build here? This has been debated and I won't get into that. I used the term "dinosaur" to describe a policy adopted by most model C schools. I also used it to describe certain people who happen to be Afrikaner, if that makes me racist and an Afrikaner hater then so be it. I said it before that I'm not here to insult people, but I'm also not here to nurse people's feelings and egos. If I don't care for Afrikaaners then it's safe to say you also don't care for other 9 official languages?

Where do you live?

In South Africa more people know Afrikaans than English.