Afrikaans schools, discriminatory?

[BBSA]

I think you'll find you are not able to read. And please stop this constant mentioning about my parents and my experience in high school. I didn't start this thread to get over my experience at a young age, I started it because I feel the issue I have raised have merit, need to be discussed and a solution found.

The solution is that the ANC government must fix the township schools so you are not "forced" to go to an Afrikaans school.

 

[Sly21C]

If the black guy wants to work for a Afrikaans company then he will have to adapt.

And that's a pity. "either learn Afrikaans if you want to work for me or go find a job somewhere else".

 

[PsyWulf]

And that's a pity. "either learn Afrikaans if you want to work for me or go find a job somewhere else".

Being required to have certain skills for work? How dare they!

 

[JungleBoy]

Being required to have certain skills for work? How dare they!

If the skill required is English than so be it. But why would there be a requirement for Afrikaans when there is already a requirement for English that everyone can speak?

 

[Sly21C]

For this reason, I choose the companies that I work for very carefully. If a company or department is dominated by Afrikaners, I don't even bother. They are the only set of people in South Africa that think their language is better than everyone else's and can be spoken in a work meeting even when there are other people in the room that clearly don't understand it. I find this behaviour very arrogant and presumptuous.

And I have a problem with this. I have nothing against Afrikaans but I have something against it if it is used as a mechanism to exclude people in an organization or a group discussion. People in this thread have convinced themselves that I am Julius Malema that DEMANDS everything, they've also convinced themselves that I hate Afrikaans.

People are going on and on about nation building and rainbow nation and unity but there will be no nation building as long as people like Julius Malema and a few people who have posted on this thread exist.

 

[PsyWulf]

If the skill required is English than so be it. But why would there be a requirement for Afrikaans when there is already a requirement for English that everyone can speak?

If the clients prefer afrikaans and your company is a service company you can fairly be expected to speak afrikaans. Demanding only being spoken to in english or gtfo should be left to ministers in guavamint

 

[BBSA]

And that's a pity. "either learn Afrikaans if you want to work for me or go find a job somewhere else".

I do not say it is a good business practices, but if you want a job you will have to adapt.

 

[Sly21C]

I must nothing. And you do not seem to get that. Must must must. Demand demand demand.

Juilias they made a nice song for you check it out.
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/378961-‘We-will-hit-them-hard’

I think you must calm down!!!

I mentioned my parents because it was relevant back then to answer a question. I didn't think you will conclude that it is used as a basis for starting this thread.

 

[JungleBoy]

If the clients prefer afrikaans and your company is a service company you can fairly be expected to speak afrikaans. Demanding only being spoken to in english or gtfo should be left to ministers in guavamint

I am talking about departmental meetings between colleagues with no clients involved. If I have to deal with a client who does not speak English I will gladly pass them on to an Afrikaans speaking colleague. Why must Afrikaans be an additional requirement when most Afrikaans people are bilingual anyway?

 

[Mila]

If the skill required is English than so be it. But why would there be a requirement for Afrikaans when there is already a requirement for English that everyone can speak?

I think they are trying to say that you sometimes just have to adapt and his attitude that every body MUST do everything like he want it is not going to happen in the real world.

 

[JungleBoy]

I think they are trying to say that you sometimes just have to adapt and his attitude that every body MUST do everything like he want it is not going to happen in the real world.

English is already an adaptation on our part (black people). Remember that it's not our language either. Now you want us to adapt to Afrikaans as well? Do Afrikaans people have issues with English? Why?

 

[PsyWulf]

I am talking about departmental meetings between colleagues with no clients involved. If I have to deal with a client who does not speak English I will gladly pass them on to an Afrikaans speaking colleague. Why must Afrikaans be an additional requirement when most Afrikaans people are bilingual anyway?

Now there it gets a bit muddy,and this off topic from the OPs complaint of not being offered a 2nd language of his choice but i'll go with it:
If you have a high percentage of native afrikaans speakers,even though they are "mostly" bilingual there is the possibility that because the majority speak it that they could have the meeting in said language. Sometimes it's a case of getting a message across in the fastest way possible,not the most universal. Though I understand Tswana,Sotho and Japanese in hearing and a bit of speaking,if I need to explain something i'd switch over to my primary language(s).

So much as you may dislike afrikaans,perhaps the coworkers feel stupid trying to discuss things in english? I know some family members of mine that feel this way,the moment they speak english to a native-english user they start stuttering.

As long as the majority understands any available language should be useable though

 

[binkybozo]

I don't hate the Afrikaans language, and Afrikaaners themselves, I hate certain policies adopted at certain schools. I decided on the title because it is a question, not a statement, hence the "?". I do feel that schools with Afrikaans as their medium of instruction discriminate, if we want to build a rainbow nation then why persist using Afrikaans knowing full well that most people in this country don't understand it? Do black people have to learn Afrikaans in order to socialize/work with people who prefer to speak Afrikaans, what are we as South Africans trying to build here? This has been debated and I won't get into that. I used the term "dinosaur" to describe a policy adopted by most model C schools. I also used it to describe certain people who happen to be Afrikaner, if that makes me racist and an Afrikaner hater then so be it. I said it before that I'm not here to insult people, but I'm also not here to nurse people's feelings and egos. If I don't care for Afrikaaners then it's safe to say you also don't care for other 9 official languages?


Like I also said before, that is just an excuse. I say this because if indeed well qualified Zulu, Sotho or Tsonga teachers are found and hired by model C schools, will that change a school's policy of "forcing" students to take Afrikaans as their second language? I think not, Zulu or Sotho subjects will ONLY be offered as third languages, correct me if's I'm wrong.



Did your significant other's cousin take Zulu as a second language or third language? Does the school in Centurion offer pupils a choice to take Zulu as a 2nd language? Or are those pupils "forced" to take English and Afrikaans? I don't think you understand my argument at all. There can be a model C school that offers 9 African languages, well that's great, but if that school still "forces" its students to take Afrikaans as a second language then I will still have a problem. I don't hate Afrikaans, I just want people to have a choice. If you still think I hate Afrikaans then I'm sorry.

What have I been saying the whole time? I don't an issue with all 11 languages being taught. My problem is there are not enough teachers to teach all 11 languages. You said it yourself...."I say this because if indeed well qualified Zulu, Sotho or Tsonga teachers are found"....my point is there are very few to be found. As a matter of fact it is getting to the point that there are shortages of English and Afrikaans teachers as well. If you don't have the teachers you can't offer the classes can you? That is not an excuse that is a fact. South Africa has a teaching shortage across all subjects and it is not getting any better. Okay this dead cow has been beaten enough so can we please move on. South Africa does not have the support staff to teach all 11 languages in schools

English is and always should be mandatory either as a first or second language. If South Africa wants to make it on a world platform then people here must learn English. We need a common language in the country and we need a common language to communicate outside of the country and English is the obvious choice for both.

My S/O cousin took Zulu as a second language. Her first language is Afrikaans but she went to an English Secondary school which offered Zulu as a second.

 

[Mila]

English is already an adaptation on our part (black people). Remember that it's not our language either. Now you want us to adapt to Afrikaans as well? Do Afrikaans people have issues with English? Why?

No i have no problem with english. I was just trying to say that yes it was not nice that he had to learn it, but it's not a bad thing having a tool that he can use. Not by speaking it, but understanding other people. Sometimes afrikaans people have trouble saying something in english ( used orania as an example people there does not use english everyday ) and by understanding a bit of afrikaans it might help.

Going to the Norhthern cape example, you speak English and Zulu. You get there and the people speak afrikaans and Setswana and a bit of english. It would help that you had some kind of understanding of afrikaans.

I just find it strange that he thinks it was forced on him. And I do not think he wants to understand that he was not.

 

[Lounger]

For this reason, I choose the companies that I work for very carefully. If a company or department is dominated by Afrikaners, I don't even bother. They are the only set of people in South Africa that think their language is better than everyone else's and can be spoken in a work meeting even when there are other people in the room that clearly don't understand it. I find this behaviour very arrogant and presumptuous.

Do you think only Afrikaaners do this? Watch how the cashier and packers in Checkers talk about each customer in Xhosa - while the shoppers stand there. It's all about manners ...

 

[Sly21C]

Being required to have certain skills for work? How dare they!

I didn't respond to your posts because of your insults, and I'm sure that is why you are a bit upset with me. In South Africa, English Is a language used to communicate across language barriers. I don't understand why farm workers and domestic workers have to now "adapt" to Afrikaans if the employer already understands English fairly/very well.

If your line of thinking is that black people must make use of Afrikaans to communicate to people in places such as Orania but then it is fine if white people don't speak in Zulu/Sotho when they are in rural areas or townships, then my friend I have a problem with your line of thinking.

 

[JungleBoy]

Now there it gets a bit muddy,and this off topic from the OPs complaint of not being offered a 2nd language of his choice but i'll go with it:
If you have a high percentage of native afrikaans speakers,even though they are "mostly" bilingual there is the possibility that because the majority speak it that they could have the meeting in said language. Sometimes it's a case of getting a message across in the fastest way possible,not the most universal. Though I understand Tswana,Sotho and Japanese in hearing and a bit of speaking,if I need to explain something i'd switch over to my primary language(s).

So much as you may dislike afrikaans,perhaps the coworkers feel stupid trying to discuss things in english? I know some family members of mine that feel this way,the moment they speak english to a native-english user they start stuttering.

As long as the majority understands any available language should be useable though

Nail meets head.
English is understood by majority of people. Afrikaans, Zulu, Sotho, Xhosa, Tswana, etc all have English as the best compromise and not Afrikaans, Zulu or any of the other 11 official languages. If we are all Zulu guys and are hanging out with a Tswana guy from Mafikeng it would be discriminatory to converse in Zulu when we are clearly aware that he does not understand it. The fact that there might be 10 versus 1 is neither here nor there. It's common courtesy, really.

 

[PsyWulf]

If your line of thinking is that black people must make use of Afrikaans to communicate to people in places such as Orania but then it is fine if white people don't speak in Zulu/Sotho when they are in rural areas or townships then my friend I have a problem with your line of thinking.

1) We are not friends but thanks for the offer
2) Are you actually suggesting that
if you go to school in a school with majority afrikaans and english speakers that being forced to choose afrikaans as a second language isn't right? ( Yep,that is your first post summarized )
but then you go on to use places where the primary language might differ and then claim that english isn't acceptible and use this as the example? Somewhere the logic fails entirely

Could you please try to get straight what exactly your point(s) are before debating the validity and becrying the resistance from others to accept your points as truth

Your school provided english as primary and afrikaans as a backup language. Now in most non-native english areas worldwide you'd still be able to speak english and be understood fairly well. This has caused you unfortunate and undue stress though because you'd have preferred a far better backup language in a school. Are you kidding? Are you so presumptuous as to believe that your needs as a minority was discriminated against for having to take required subjects?

 

[MightyMuffinMan]

Where do you get your facts from? Most people in this country can understand Afrikaans(except maybe people from KZN).

What is your real agenda here?

how did you get these facts. IU cant speak afrikaans. And I wont speak it.

Workers are not forced to learn anything. In fact they don't have to work either. It seems this point is often missed.

Huh? and you complain of BEE? You also dont have to work ?

If the black guy wants to work for a Afrikaans company then he will have to adopt.

wtf are you smoking, where did soemthing like an Afrikaans company suddenly come from? Seems like an exclusion policy to me. using language to create a barrier

Being required to have certain skills for work? How dare they!

How is speakign afrikaans a skill? it's useless. The only people who use it are South African's who speak it. Same argument goes for zulu...not all that sueful. But like myself and Sly are saying why should the language be forced on others?

Look these are the facts:

The fact that afrikaans is being forced at certain schools leads to segregation based upon culture (this is simple).
This will result in the masses (most non-afrikaaners) forcing changes that will impact on the afrikaaners.
Look the changes will come and one day most of the Afrikaaaners are gonna wake up and realize that they are a minority and like any minority in any country their share of the wealth etc is gonna adjust itself proportionally. For some reason many of you still hold the view that afrikaans is BETTER than another african language but its not (you can claim it is academic but its not and never will be), plain and simple, its useless in terms of becoming a global employee.

This is the only country where post revolution occurred in a peaceful manner but the divide remains because of Dinosaur policies like compulsory teaching in afrikaans. Note the argument not against mother tongue teaching but against compulsory afrikaans teaching.

 

[PsyWulf]

Nail meets head.
English is understood by majority of people. Afrikaans, Zulu, Sotho, Xhosa, Tswana, etc all have English as the best compromise and not Afrikaans, Zulu or any of the other 11 official languages. If we are all Zulu guys and are hanging out with a Tswana guy from Mafikeng it would be discriminatory to converse in Zulu when we are clearly aware that he does not understand it. The fact that there might be 10 versus 1 is neither here nor there. It's common courtesy, really.

Agreed wholly
The OP's point however was regarding the secondary language being afrikaans and required in an afrikaans/english school,which is redunk