ANC winning next year? Sure. But EWC? I doubt it will become reality.
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Amending the Constitution on land is becoming unavoidable
- Thread starter BTTB
- Start date
ArtyLoop
Executive Member
We will see, I hope you are right but I am preparing for that reality anyway. Where I live they're already trying to invade open pieces of privately owned land
Praeses
Executive Member
I'm also not even considering buying property while this whole debate is happening...why pay for land that will maybe become worthless very soon?
A friend and I were talking about this the other night and we were stuck in a very strange position. Though in principle we support expropriation without compensation, we both thought that the circumstances it can be used be VERY restricted. Meaning the wording of the amendment must be very clear.
As a property owner, the EFF approach scares the crap out of me, but when reading the ANC resolution on the matter, the wording made us think the amendment will be very restrictive. As long as private ownership rights are protected in the absence of a valid land claim against my property, then I personally will be cool. With a valid land claim, I will sell long before it gets to expropriation stage.
Either way, a lot more of us will have to introduce a new phase of buying property, finding out if there is a land claim against it...
As a property owner, the EFF approach scares the crap out of me, but when reading the ANC resolution on the matter, the wording made us think the amendment will be very restrictive. As long as private ownership rights are protected in the absence of a valid land claim against my property, then I personally will be cool. With a valid land claim, I will sell long before it gets to expropriation stage.
Either way, a lot more of us will have to introduce a new phase of buying property, finding out if there is a land claim against it...
Good luck finding a buyer when there is a prospective land claim against your property....
You edited out the bit I said it will be on me to find out if there is a land claim going forward. With my existing house, I would sell to the government to limit my losses hopefully...
thestaggy
Honorary Master
They've pulled the pin on the hand grenade, there's no going back. We've got people rioting and occupying land all over the country already, do you honestly think they will go quietly in to the night after the elections?
And unless they have another plan in terms of dealing with Malema and the EFF, how are they going to keep them quiet and limit their support? As long as the land ''issue'' is unresolved the EFF will always have a platform from which they can rabble-rouse, agitate and take votes away from the ANC.
When parliament debated whether or not to start the process of amending the constitution earlier this year, most of the smaller parties supported the process.
https://www.parliament.gov.za/press...mittee-mandate-review-section-25-constitution
I don't know party by party, but the vote was 241 to 83.
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Fair points.
Do you think the ANC need to have this 'issue' wrapped up before elections then?
I don't think the EFF can take enough votes away from the ANC to make any real impact.
thestaggy
Honorary Master
No, I don't think they need to. They've built up a lot of political capital as it is after ousting Zuma; CR talking big and fancy and committing to EWC, so the elections are sown up. The juicy stuff will likely start happening after the elections.
The EFF won't take away too many votes, but right now it has got enough of the vote to kick the ANC out of major metros and this is something the ANC won't want to see spread further. Granted the DA going full retard will go some way to minimising this threat as well, but they will still want to clip the EFF's wings. Malema is also a popular man, probably the most popular politican in SA right now, so the ANC will want to limit the issues he can campaign on.
ToxicBunny
Oi! Leave me out of this...
The issue with the DA going full retard, is that people will say they won't vote for the DA (even in polling questionnaires)... but when push comes to shove and you look at the ballot paper there is a strong possibility that those fence sitters will actually still vote for the DA unless a credible alternative miraculously appears in the next 6 to 8 months...
Vrotappel
Bulls fan
It's all about revenge. I don't see how farmland alone is going to satisfy them.
Yeah I was wondering about this.
All those keyboard warriors telling everyone that they and a 1000 friends will change their vote because of 1 person being treated unfairly (having that mindset is odd in itself).
thestaggy
Honorary Master
Fair enough. I find myself in that very position. I can no longer state that its a given that I will vote DA, but there are no real alternatives for me.
But I do think there is a risk that the DA will lose votes in light of the de Lille fiasco; the supposed ANC new dawn and sections of the white conservative base being put off by Mmaimane's shift toward populism. Maybe they won't lose a lot, but I wouldn't be surprised if their share of the popular vote either stagnates or slides back by a few percent.
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ToxicBunny
Oi! Leave me out of this...
Same for me really...
I don't WANT to vote for them, but they are the only real opposition to the ANC so diluting my vote just to spite them isn't necessarily in the best interests of the country in the medium-long term...
Same here...
F
Former member 61586
Guest
Especially if after they have received their land, they are no better off and probably worse off.
The issues are two fold:
Those in power are playing identity politics, and are not addressing the needs of the people. It is probably a small subset of politicians, but they are very loud about this. They will whip up sentiment and support to support their own goals. Politics in SA has not been about the people for a very long time. The people are tools. The EFF is an extreme group that has come out of this type of populous politicking. This is going to happen more often, and the calls for land are going to become more extreme. The ANC has unleashed a problem of massive proportions, and their successors have to deal with the issue. Whether the tipping point is 5 or 10 years away is completely unknown. My take on it is that these pockets of violence are going to become more extreme. Theft / looting is going to become more brazen and mob based, and land grabs are going to become more prevalent. We have an army of unemployed people out there and an untold number of illegal immigrants that could be potentially whipped up to cause chaos. I have a very bleak outlook for South Africa because of this. Economic growth should have been the number one priority, and Cyril's efforts are great, but 10 years too late.
Those that are living in informal settlements do deserve some kind of humanity. Having no access to clean water, sanitation or toilets is pretty severe. They have a valid case for allocation of a parcel of land and improvement of service delivery. But, the extremists will hijack any land discussions, and we will never be able to reach common ground.
If anyone has any kind of land that is not occupied, you will have to get security to protect it. Once a group sets something up on your property, you will have to go through eviction proceedings to remove them. I would not buy any land, nor invest in any sort of business here unless there is a return in around 5 years until the ANC has made a firm policy decision on the land issue.
- The political elite are playing identity politics, and want to see whites take a tumble in the name of redress. A way to do this is to eradicate white property ownership through redistribution of land. Next up is other financial holdings of whites, and a "redress" type tax. A number of forum members have this view as well. It's not about equality, or justice. It's about revenge when you dig deeper down into it.
- The poor black communities (which are predominantly) in urban areas require a piece of their own land to develop to try improve their living conditions to some extent, and get some form of basic humanity.
Those in power are playing identity politics, and are not addressing the needs of the people. It is probably a small subset of politicians, but they are very loud about this. They will whip up sentiment and support to support their own goals. Politics in SA has not been about the people for a very long time. The people are tools. The EFF is an extreme group that has come out of this type of populous politicking. This is going to happen more often, and the calls for land are going to become more extreme. The ANC has unleashed a problem of massive proportions, and their successors have to deal with the issue. Whether the tipping point is 5 or 10 years away is completely unknown. My take on it is that these pockets of violence are going to become more extreme. Theft / looting is going to become more brazen and mob based, and land grabs are going to become more prevalent. We have an army of unemployed people out there and an untold number of illegal immigrants that could be potentially whipped up to cause chaos. I have a very bleak outlook for South Africa because of this. Economic growth should have been the number one priority, and Cyril's efforts are great, but 10 years too late.
Those that are living in informal settlements do deserve some kind of humanity. Having no access to clean water, sanitation or toilets is pretty severe. They have a valid case for allocation of a parcel of land and improvement of service delivery. But, the extremists will hijack any land discussions, and we will never be able to reach common ground.
If anyone has any kind of land that is not occupied, you will have to get security to protect it. Once a group sets something up on your property, you will have to go through eviction proceedings to remove them. I would not buy any land, nor invest in any sort of business here unless there is a return in around 5 years until the ANC has made a firm policy decision on the land issue.
ArtyLoop
Executive Member
It is indeed punitive. They just want to be able to repeatedly kick the arse of the evil white man... and even after he is gone, still shout expletives and blame him for their problems.
Here we have the Cape Party as an alternative but the name itself limits it to just that region and 2019 is a National Election.
If all the people that have suddenly moved down to the Cape vote ANC or EFF, the current DA lead is going to be eroded.
Frankly as it stands, for property owners and clear thinking people there is no viable alternative.