Any ANC supporters on this forum?

[EtienneK]

Ahhhhhhhhh, my eyes are bleeding!

Dude, don't they have "Enter" keys and punctuation on the keyboards at ANC HQ?.


It's got bugger all to do with "easy reading", just basic use of paragraphs and punctuation that are not only used in nursery rhymes, believe it or not. Read other posts on this forum and others, you might be suprised to find that the majority of posters tend to use paragraphs and the like.

B

+1

 

[adelp]

I really think that you have to at least pass a simple politics and history test before you are able to vote.

I know where you are coming from, but isn't that the same as the tax payers?

 

[siphox]

I have to disagree.... really, I do.

1) BEE and Affirmative action has not once, ever, made something better for me before it was put in place. I cannot go an apply for just any bursary, now I have to look for one that is not "advantageous to previously disadvantaged". I cannot go an apply for just any job... companies now have to meet "BEE targets"... and "job application for previously disadvantaged people only. FAIL number 1.

2) Private business? Just as an example, take the retail market- there are so many private estate agents that more than half of them do not survive. If there had been only a handful of estate agencies, all of them would survive... so there is your second FAIL.

3) I took my car for a service and a black businessman was in the lounge where I sat. He told me about one stupid thing that black people do - they buy cars they cannot afford. I've seen this too. People staying in Mamelodi driving R800'000 cars but living in shacks. The whole family cashes in on the payments. This is FAIL number 3.

4) What I have noticed about the ANC that fails even their own people, is they always promise to get housing for everyone. I don't need to remind anybody about the current housing situation. The ANC promises jobs and the promises keep flowing. Just in one corner of our area there are over 50 jobless black people everyday.... which increases crime in the neighbourhoods. FAIL number 4.

5) Yes, there was a boom in the economy of the middle class black people. Their net worth went from under a million to in some cases over a billion. They only had to leech from the BEE and affirmative action legislations... but the lower class people haven't had anything come their way. Well nothing good, that is. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. FAIL number 5.

I think you need to rethink your support for the ANC... honestly. But hey, don't listen to me. "Affirmative action doesn't harm the whites"

1, like i said already, you need to be in business to feel the impact of BEE. You are not in business therefore you will not feel its instant impact. If you doubt me, as all those white business owners how much they hvae benefited from BEE, the figures are in millions. Because whites benefit from business by implementing BEE or affirmative action, they employ blacks, even if it they dont like it. They just want the millions. BEE is not yet perfect that is why it is being tweaked so that in benefits all South Africans across the board.
Secondly not all bursaries are AA or BEE. Just like many other blacks who can't qualify for bursaries or who dont apply for it, you can go look for a job that is not affirmative action sensetive and pay your fees, thats how I do it. Not all companies are BEE or AA. However you can benefit from BEE if you start your own company and apply AA action which will win you lots of government business.

2, Its a fact of the business world, whether there is AA or BEE, that business rise and fall. remember Enron, Anderson, etc. All big time companies that fell. Others do succeeds to become super players on the global market. Do your home work and chose a type of business that has potential. Many blacks start their business and they are successful. I see a lot of black wmaon selling fruit and vegetables on street corners. they hvae been here for years, some now own spaza's. Besides them, many blacks and whites do start their own business and survive. Stop making excuses and get working. Dont jsut look at failed business and use that as an example to prove that private business fail.

3, This is not a black thing alone but its across all races. and i don't believe in what you are saying, pure crap. close to a million rand car and living in shack, yeah right. The black person you spoke to should have told you that there are many ways in which a man living in shack can drive a close to a million rand car, he probably stole it. or bought it from a crime synidacte that gave it to him very cheaply. Many white people living in mansions have had their cars repossessed by banks too. Even their houses. Many whites are living on money that they don't have, just like some blacks, they live on credit.

4,Point number 4 proves what i am trying to tell you that since there is so much unemployed black people they turn to crime for survival. so AA assisted blacks in getting jobs and having skills tranfered to them and in so doing reducing crime. THe ANC has not failed its people, the only problem is that things are not moving as quickly as we would like to. THere are plenty of RDP house which have been built, look around you. As for jobs, we are still depended on direct foreign investment which the ANC government has done a lot to impress with its business friendly policies, but still Direct Foreign Investment is coming in very slowly. Because of this the government introduced the extended public works programme in which many blacks can find employment. Just because the ANC has not reached its promise gaol, it does not mean they are not delivering at all.

 

[adelp]

Do Taxi's owners pay tax ? Do they keep books, can these be audited?

If they do they can vote.....

 

[adelp]

Just because the ANC has not reached its promise gaol, it does not mean they are not delivering at all.

I think then you should not promise at all.... yes they fail.... by 10 years they fail, still people have no water still they have no houses......

But it's more important to change names of streets in PTA (and drive home on Pochefstroom road in Soweto....) than giving people basic rights...

 

[siphox]

+1

We do, but we use them to slam hard headed people like you in the skull, so that we can trigger some intelligence to be able to read through paragraphless text.

 

[siphox]

Just because the ANC has not reached its promise gaol, it does not mean they are not delivering at all.

I think then you should not promise at all.... yes they fail.... by 10 years they fail, still people have no water still they have no houses......

But it's more important to change names of streets in PTA (and drive home on Pochefstroom road in Soweto....) than giving people basic rights...

Hate to to tell you this, but the world is not standing still and the population is growing bigger and there is no money to do everything at the same time. Do you know a monster called Fiscal policy?.
According the the UN, south africa is one of the best government in providing houses and water and all basic needs.
Yes many people don't have these at this time, but as time goes by they will, like many before them. You should check out how impressive and robust soweto looks these days, man, its a a beauty. the parks are clean, new houses are propping up everywhere and they are owned by blacks who have used their freedom to economically empower themselves.
Even a country like the USA, still has poor uneducated people.

Those names are going to change, we cant afford upholding the names of apartheid human rights abusers. Its very important to change these names and there is a budget for it.

Are you saying that the ANC should not make promises which they plan to deliver, thats stupid.

 

[icyrus]

1, like i said already, you need to be in business to feel the impact of BEE. You are not in business therefore you will not feel its instant impact. If you doubt me, as all those white business owners how much they hvae benefited from BEE, the figures are in millions. Because whites benefit from business by implementing BEE or affirmative action

Please describe how you believe businesses benefit from AA and BEE.

 

[daveza]

Are you saying that the ANC should not make promises which they plan to deliver, thats stupid.

Always a good idea to read before you post....

Do you mean "Are you saying the ANC should make promises which they don't plan to deliver " ?

 

[Mila]

And they didn't think or project a growth in population? Or did they hope half of the people will die of Aids- oh i'm sorry TB.

It's simple you say there is an avarage of so so many people and they have on avarage somany kids, the avarage adult live for so many years....???

Oh sorry the cars and houses for the top brass was a bit more important that projecting for the future....

And sorry They knew the avarage black hose hold does not have 2.5 kids.....

 

[siphox]

Always a good idea to read before you post....

Do you mean "Are you saying the ANC should make promises which they don't plan to deliver " ?

Actually that question mark should be inside the inverted comas

And if you applied you brain just for a second, you will see that I was not actually asking you a question, i was indicating how baffled i am of your suggestion that the ANC should not make promises. How can they not make promises if they plan to fulfill them, ha

 

[daveza]

I sometimes wish I were in a coma

 

[Sly21C]

Always a good idea to read before you post....

Do you mean "Are you saying the ANC should make promises which they don't plan to deliver " ?

And they didn't think or project a growth in population? Or did they hope half of the people will die of Aids- oh i'm sorry TB.

It's simple you say there is an avarage of so so many people and they have on avarage somany kids, the avarage adult live for so many years....???

Oh sorry the cars and houses for the top brass was a bit more important that projecting for the future....

And sorry They knew the avarage black hose hold does not have 2.5 kids.....

Just because the ANC has not reached its promise gaol, it does not mean they are not delivering at all.

I think then you should not promise at all.... yes they fail.... by 10 years they fail, still people have no water still they have no houses......

But it's more important to change names of streets in PTA (and drive home on Pochefstroom road in Soweto....) than giving people basic rights...

Please describe how you believe businesses benefit from AA and BEE.

Although I don't support the ANC anymore and I will never vote for them again because I have lost faith in them, I would like to know something. Please tell me (in detail if possible) the reasons why you hate the ANC or why you don't like the ANC.

I know that there is this trend in this forum to hate everything the ANC does but I would like to know the reasons. I have my reasons but I'll like to know yours, thanks.

I hope you'll not use insults to make a point Facts and intelligence work better

 

[siphox]

Siphox, you may have a point but it would be given more respect if you simply used a spellchecker.

For the record my opinion is that the US didn't care about apartheid except that it was deemed a barrier to communism.

The ANC in exile was the driving force in more enlightened countries.

No, you are trying to discredit black people's fight against apartheid.

The US gave a lot of support to the apartheid government. but thats jsut the US being the US, they are still doing it now with Isreal and palestine.

Not just countries, but individuals, remember that we had a lot of anti-apartheid marches in the USA. Just to add, the biggest anti apartheid movement outside south africa was in holland, if you are dutch, this is your homeland.

 

[siphox]

Although I don't support the ANC anymore and I will never vote for them again because I have lost faith in them, I would like to know something. Please tell me (in detail if possible) the reasons why you hate the ANC or why you don't like the ANC.

I know that there is this trend in this forum to hate everything the ANC does but I would like to know the reasons. I have my reasons but I'll like to know yours, thanks.

I hope you'll not use insults to make a point Facts and intelligence work better

Of course the ANC does projections. Otherwise we will not hear Mboweni say things like we want to bring the inflation down to xx by year xx. or we should reduce unemployment by this much by year so and so. The thing is RSA does not exist in isolation, the economic field unstable, we might not collect as much tax as you first thought etc. The population might have suddenly gone up or down because of other things, its a lot of variables at play here. lets not pretend that its easy. Here is a question, why did the whites bother with apartheid in the first place, didn't they project it was going to die in a few decades? Couldn't they see that no human being can live under oppression, that is like so abvious.

 

[Hoof-Hearted]

Hate to to tell you this, but the world is not standing still and the population is growing bigger and there is no money to do everything at the same time. Do you know a monster called Fiscal policy?.
According the the UN, south africa is one of the best government in providing houses and water and all basic needs.

...
.

Extract from Business Day 12th April 2007

UN observer shocked at state of SA housing
UNITED Nations special rapporteur for
adequate housing Miloon Kothari has
criticised SA s housing policy saying
there appeared to be an increasing gap
between delivery of housing and legis-
lation which could affect development

tsk tsk tsk

When are the ANC and their supporters going to realize that one can't just make something up and expect reasonably intelligent people to take it as gospel ... just because they said it

(Unfortunately I don't have a link ... only a scanned copy of the page - I guess I could post it in pics if I can get it small enough)

 

[siphox]

The ANC is the worst goverment this country has ever had. You have to be blind not to see their uber screw ups, which they dont intend on correcting or even attempt to fix. They have opressed their own people more than the whites ever have.

WHAT? YOU CANT BE SERIOUS. The Apartheid regim was labeled as a human rights abuser by the UN and the World. Are you going to tell me that all those people around the world marching against apartheid were stupid?

And please do explain, how has the ANC government abused its own people? I will not let you get away without some substantiation.

What problems are those that they intend not to fix?

 

[AvOk]

1, like i said already, you need to be in business to feel the impact of BEE. You are not in business therefore you will not feel its instant impact. If you doubt me, as all those white business owners how much they hvae benefited from BEE, the figures are in millions. Because whites benefit from business by implementing BEE or affirmative action, they employ blacks, even if it they dont like it. They just want the millions. BEE is not yet perfect that is why it is being tweaked so that in benefits all South Africans across the board.
Secondly not all bursaries are AA or BEE. Just like many other blacks who can't qualify for bursaries or who dont apply for it, you can go look for a job that is not affirmative action sensetive and pay your fees, thats how I do it. Not all companies are BEE or AA. However you can benefit from BEE if you start your own company and apply AA action which will win you lots of government business.

2, Its a fact of the business world, whether there is AA or BEE, that business rise and fall. remember Enron, Anderson, etc. All big time companies that fell. Others do succeeds to become super players on the global market. Do your home work and chose a type of business that has potential. Many blacks start their business and they are successful. I see a lot of black wmaon selling fruit and vegetables on street corners. they hvae been here for years, some now own spaza's. Besides them, many blacks and whites do start their own business and survive. Stop making excuses and get working. Dont jsut look at failed business and use that as an example to prove that private business fail.

3, This is not a black thing alone but its across all races. and i don't believe in what you are saying, pure crap. close to a million rand car and living in shack, yeah right. The black person you spoke to should have told you that there are many ways in which a man living in shack can drive a close to a million rand car, he probably stole it. or bought it from a crime synidacte that gave it to him very cheaply. Many white people living in mansions have had their cars repossessed by banks too. Even their houses. Many whites are living on money that they don't have, just like some blacks, they live on credit.

4,Point number 4 proves what i am trying to tell you that since there is so much unemployed black people they turn to crime for survival. so AA assisted blacks in getting jobs and having skills tranfered to them and in so doing reducing crime. THe ANC has not failed its people, the only problem is that things are not moving as quickly as we would like to. THere are plenty of RDP house which have been built, look around you. As for jobs, we are still depended on direct foreign investment which the ANC government has done a lot to impress with its business friendly policies, but still Direct Foreign Investment is coming in very slowly. Because of this the government introduced the extended public works programme in which many blacks can find employment. Just because the ANC has not reached its promise gaol, it does not mean they are not delivering at all.

AA/BEE is NOT working, no one is referring to white business owners. I and many other people have left SA, we are not business owners, rather the middle/upper class white male who is skilled in a particular field, but cannot find a job. I now work for one of the biggest companies in the world, contributing to one of the fastest developing countries in the world. The most important asset to any company/country are its employees/countrymen, the day this is realized SA will change for the better. You cannot change things overnight, you admit it, progress is slow. Then why is BEE/AA being forced, why must companies have a certain % of previously disadvantaged individuals?

There are other ways to encourage it, rather create a standard, add incentives, tax cuts for these companies that encourage the education/employment of the previously disadvantaged.

As for the comment about big companies falling, I don't get it?

Do your home work and chose a type of business that has potential.

Not everyone can own a company, it will not solve all the BEE/AA problems like you suggest.

Hate to to tell you this, but the world is not standing still and the population is growing bigger and there is no money to do everything at the same time. Do you know a monster called Fiscal policy?.
According the the UN, south africa is one of the best government in providing houses and water and all basic needs.
Yes many people don't have these at this time, but as time goes by they will, like many before them. You should check out how impressive and robust soweto looks these days, man, its a a beauty. the parks are clean, new houses are propping up everywhere and they are owned by blacks who have used their freedom to economically empower themselves.
Even a country like the USA, still has poor uneducated people.

Those names are going to change, we cant afford upholding the names of apartheid human rights abusers. Its very important to change these names and there is a budget for it.

Are you saying that the ANC should not make promises which they plan to deliver, thats stupid.

Its short sighted views like this that really stick out. There are so many other projects/problems/institutions which need this money, but you are happy with the gov. spending millions on changing names, to achieve what?

Anyway, no use debating with you, as its your mentality which will cause SA to go Zim V2.

Economic investment from foreigners, how is this going to help if you apply BEE/AA to a foreign company!

My firefox page looks like a Christmas tree while quoting your paragraphs.

 

[daveza]

Facts and intelligence work better

There is no such place as Palestine - or Isreal for that matter.

 

[daveza]

And please do explain, how has the ANC government abused its own people? I will not let you get away without some substantiation.

Aids-denial ?