Any ANC supporters on this forum?

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Read again. Yengeni had a 4 year sentence. He spent 5 months. He was corrupt ... like most of our current government.

Of course we want to see criminals rot in jail ... and this has little to do with feelings. It's common sense. You have that, don't you?

A person commits a crime, gets convicted, goes to jail, and serves out his term. What has that got to do with anyone's feelings? What kind of ill-constructed, illogical, non-sensical, idiotic argument is that?
 
siphox said:
Diversity in the workplace is positive because it brings various world-views.
More empowered blacks means a greater human resources field to pick from. Remember that blacks are the majority. Plus Business tend to be in good terms with government which ables them to influence economic policy. But the most important thing is that they can get government business which is good for business.
More rich blacks, the more business benefit from the massive buying power of blacks and in turn businesses expand, and our economy grows.
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What utter rubbish. Excluding whites excludes a major skills base and vastly reduces the human resources field.

If you're going to present an argument, at least present one that makes some kind of sense.
 
siphox said:
Every case is dealt with according to its own merit. The merit of this case resulted in him spending this much time in jail.

We all want to see criminals rot in jail, but unfortunately we cant use our feelings.
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The point remains, the corrupt people in the arms deal weren't held accountable.
 
EtienneK said:
siphox, why won't you vote for the DA? Which one of these policies don't you agree with: http://www.da.org.za/?page_id=924 ?
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They claim that they will make empowerment non-race-based. Which means that they will do things under the banner of business as usual, which is not good, you cant be faced with extra-ordinary circumstances and you chose to do the ordinary. THE ANC is brave enough to realize this.
Most whites don't really need economic empowerment as they already have it. They have skills, education and the money to attend universities.
In this situation blacks will always lack behind no matter how much they try because whites already had a head start.Plus emotionally black will feel that the country has let them down, and it might lead to political upheaval. its vital to empower the black man since he is the one that was disadvantaged in the past. It does not make sense to empower whites, because they don't need it.what is the DA trying to do.
 
siphox said:
Plus emotionally black will feel that the country has let them down, and it might lead to political upheaval. its vital to empower the black man since he is the one that was disadvantaged in the past. It does not make sense to empower whites, because they don't need it.what is the DA trying to do.
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If black people don't feel that the ANC has let them down yet, there is little chance of this happening.
 
shadowfox said:
Read again. Yengeni had a 4 year sentence. He spent 5 months. He was corrupt ... like most of our current government.

Of course we want to see criminals rot in jail ... and this has little to do with feelings. It's common sense. You have that, don't you?

A person commits a crime, gets convicted, goes to jail, and serves out his term. What has that got to do with anyone's feelings? What kind of ill-constructed, illogical, non-sensical, idiotic argument is that?
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Actually it does, wanting to see criminals rot in jail, has everything to do with feelings.

what i was saying is that courts don't work on a subjective bases but a objective bases.
 
Tassidar said:
What utter rubbish. Excluding whites excludes a major skills base and vastly reduces the human resources field.

And if we added blacks to this field, there will be more to chose from.
living out blacks, means that we will continue having a huge unemployment percentage, which is not good because crime will never go away and aids will spiral out of control.

If you're going to present an argument, at least present one that makes some kind of sense.
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empowering blacks does not mean dis-empowering whites?
whites need to be assertive and use their skills to start businesses. Black people who cant find jobs are doing it. Do you see all those blacks selling vegetables in the streets, and those woman selling food, those blacks standing on street selling cellphone accessories. Those are the types of people this country needs. And guess what most don't have an education but they are assertive. you do have skill and education but you whine.
 
siphox said:
Actually it does, wanting to see criminals rot in jail, has everything to do with feelings.

what i was saying is that courts don't work on a subjective bases but a objective bases.
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So serving 5 months of a 48 month sentence is objective Justice...?
The mind boggles.....:confused:
 
siphox said:
empowering blacks does not mean dis-empowering whites?
whites need to be assertive and use their skills to start businesses. Black people who cant find jobs are doing it. Do you see all those blacks selling vegetables in the streets, and those woman selling food, those blacks standing on street selling cellphone accessories. Those are the types of people this country needs. And guess what most don't have an education but they are assertive. you do have skill and education but you whine.
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Essentially thats exactly what it comes down to as that is how it has been implemented. All whites want is equality, no preferential treatment...just equality. Funny...this seems familiar somehow:rolleyes:

Unfortunately having skills means nothing if no one will appoint you because of the colour of your skin....and then government always blames skill shortages for their shortcomings. *sigh*
 
siphox said:
empowering blacks does not mean dis-empowering whites?
whites need to be assertive and use their skills to start businesses. Black people who cant find jobs are doing it. Do you see all those blacks selling vegetables in the streets, and those woman selling food, those blacks standing on street selling cellphone accessories. Those are the types of people this country needs. And guess what most don't have an education but they are assertive. you do have skill and education but you whine.
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Sipho.

Firstly, let me tell you that I am happily self-employed and would not have it any other way.

Secondly, arguing for fairness, is not whining. I'm quite happy with my lot in South Africa. If I wasn't, I would have left long ago.

As I've argued before, but you didn't respond to (no counter argument?) - whites are doing this, but it is leaving established businesses less efficient, and is effectively distorting markets.

Personally, I consider this debate over. Like many previous ANC supporters who have voiced their opinions, you choose only to respond to arguments that you can hope to counter, and you don't even do that very well.

By the way, I resent been told that I am a whiner.
(1) I am self-employed
(2) I am a committee member of my rate-payers association - active in the exercise of democracy
(3) I am active with a volunteer organisation.

I give a lot more back to this country than most people. If I exercise my right to freedom of speech, I don't wish to be told that I am a whiner.

However, unlike some people, I have standards that I feel must be upheld, and am not willing to support a bunch of self-enriching, corrupt, greedy and racist politicians. That doesn't make me a whiner.
 
siphox said:
They claim that they will make empowerment non-race-based. Which means that they will do things under the banner of business as usual, which is not good, you cant be faced with extra-ordinary circumstances and you chose to do the ordinary. THE ANC is brave enough to realize this.
Most whites don't really need economic empowerment as they already have it. They have skills, education and the money to attend universities.
In this situation blacks will always lack behind no matter how much they try because whites already had a head start.Plus emotionally black will feel that the country has let them down, and it might lead to political upheaval. its vital to empower the black man since he is the one that was disadvantaged in the past. It does not make sense to empower whites, because they don't need it.what is the DA trying to do.
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Non race based, means helping poor people, and not helping rich black people who don't need help, but are the ones currently abusing the system. What is wrong with that? You and the ANC would rather see rich blacks get richer and poor whites die on the street then help poor people in general and forget the rich.

Your answer is: Whites should start businesses...
Are YOU going to lend me money to do that?
 
siphox said:
Whites are doing quiet well in this country. They don't have poverty or unemployment haunting them. Even with BEE and AA putting pressure on them, they simply leave the country and try out other means in other countries. They have options.
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Simply, eh? Don't have poverty or unemployment haunting them? Eish...wish you could feel what it's like to be in a white skin these days.

My main gripe is where you say 'simply leave the country and try out other means'. And we should be happy with this "solution" as South Africans? Charles Ngakula, is that you? Sorry sipho, but in many of your posts you manage to list in your own words why the ANC has only a very few peoples' interests at heart.
 
HumanoidTyphoon said:
Would you vote ANC if they shot at, and killed your family on the highway from the comfort of a convoy?

"Then why didn't shaik, a high ranking supporter and member of the ANC not get away it. why didn't yengeni not get away with it, they are all high ranking?"

They shutdown the scorpians, yes I can see they are very much dedicated to investigating their own members.. You know Zuma is corrupt. Admit it. Most other Zuma supporters admit it, they simply try to validate it as acceptable.
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I can't say that Zuma is corrupt until the courts say so. Innocent until proven guilty, remember.

I don't believe that the scorpions should have been shut down. They were quiet effective and they were created by guess what?---the ANC. Unfortunately they were not constitutional and there was too much political interference, although they were said to be independent, they were actually not. Remember what judge Nicholson said aboutb political meddling in Zuma's case.
We need a new independent body to do these high profile cases.
 
siphox said:
I can't say that Zuma is corrupt until the courts say so. Innocent until proven guilty, remember.

I don't believe that the scorpions should have been shut down.
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By who?

there was too much political interference
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by who?


Funny, whenever you try to defend the ANC, you unwittingly end up attacking it?
 
Tassidar said:
The point remains, the corrupt people in the arms deal weren't held accountable.
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The NPA is the body that investigates these crimes, is its duty to make sure that those that got away, are brought to account.
 
Tassidar said:
If black people don't feel that the ANC has let them down yet, there is little chance of this happening.
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THE ANC has not let black people down, don't say this its laughable.
Yes there is still poverty and squatter camps, but you also have to admit that many blacks have got RDP houses and some are no longer poor. Dont you see all those balck people in expensive cars, universities, in high ranking jobs. That is the work of the ANC.
Problem of this country will not be solved quickly and i doubt that poverty will end. Lets check out the whites, some of them, although they were given all the opportunities during apartheid are poor because they never used the opportunities, so it is with blacks, some just don't want to use the opportunities and so some will stay poor.
As for jobs, the government does not actually create jobs but creates conditions for investment. We depend on direct foreign investment which has not been forthcoming at the fast rate that we want to see. The economy has grown, but it does not produce enough jobs. this is an on going struggle, and we will deal with it.
 
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