Apple Silicon M5

quovadis said:
Not sure I agree. The average Mac user isn't doing much more than productivity, browsing, media consumption etc. That 8GB is more than enough for that average user. Attrition will be through hardware failure/damage and new form factors/features/performance etc rather than through obsolescence. Imho the only real threat would be local LLMs and most users are simply offloading all of that to ChatGPT etc. I would be surprised if M1 support is dropped prior to 2030.
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Why don't you agree. You do agree. You just didn't read what I said and responded not to agree. The point was that Apple needs to sell machines and they release faster machines to compete with Qualcomm, Intel and AMD. Each year or even twice a year we have marketing and benchmarks showing how many times faster this Mac is than last years'. Obviously most people don't need the speed hence as I said is to add BS must have features which will FOMO (fear of missing out) people into buying new but not allowing them on the old or adding them in hardware - eg LTE modems or OLED screens - or software changes - eg new features which 'need' more RAM or whatever in an artificial way, such as the AI BS which is being pushed on everyone. I said that only people who have money to burn or really need top speed should really upgrade but there aren't that many people to keep those share prices high.

Performance, what performance? For most people a 2015 Macbook Pro is fast enough for what they do. Heck a 2012 Macbook Pro retina is fast enough, just with 16GB of RAM.

M1 should last people for another 5 years at least. Only problem may be the onboard RAM if websites become more bloated. But a 16GB machine for the social media, email, word processing, spreadsheets, photo editing etc should be good enough. You know its not like iPhones will be shooting 1 tera pixel images in the next few years.
 
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Smiggles said:
Funny then that Metal 4 supports the M1.
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That's one feature for now. But wait till you see LTE modems in Macbooks or beautiful OLED screens or touch screens. And those may need OS updates and so on which will 'not be compatible' with older machines.
 
Mirai said:
That's one feature for now. But wait till you see LTE modems in Macbooks or beautiful OLED screens or touch screens. And those may need OS updates and so on which will 'not be compatible' with older machines.
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Apple’s services also need OS updates.
 
Mirai said:
Why don't you agree. You do agree. You just didn't read what I said and responded not to agree. The point was that Apple needs to sell machines and they release faster machines to compete with Qualcomm, Intel and AMD. Each year or even twice a year we have marketing and benchmarks showing how many times faster this Mac is than last years'. Obviously most people don't need the speed hence as I said is to add BS must have features which will FOMO (fear of missing out) people into buying new but not allowing them on the old or adding them in hardware - eg LTE modems or OLED screens - or software changes - eg new features which 'need' more RAM or whatever in an artificial way, such as the AI BS which is being pushed on everyone. I said that only people who have money to burn or really need top speed should really upgrade but there aren't that many people to keep those share prices high.

Performance, what performance? For most people a 2015 Macbook Pro is fast enough for what they do. Heck a 2012 Macbook Pro retina is fast enough, just with 16GB of RAM.

M1 should last people for another 5 years at least. Only problem may be the onboard RAM if websites become more bloated. But a 16GB machine for the social media, email, word processing, spreadsheets, photo editing etc should be good enough. You know its not like iPhones will be shooting 1 tera pixel images in the next few years.
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Most of the iterations are necessity due to changes and performance increases in memory chips, storage chips and the fab/silicon itself - for now they have the edge because x86 refuses to die and Microsoft is too focused on copilot to get Windows working flawlessly on Arm. The majority of Mac users on Apple silicon are simply not motivated to upgrade since their M1 is still as good as when they bought it. Anyone with a windows pc from 2020 probably doesn’t feel the same hence why Mac sales typically don’t vary that much year to year.

PS. Intel Macs are horrific compared to even the earliest M1 . All they had going for them was really great hardware and ecosystem. Performance, thermals etc were very bad but still edged out most of what PCs had on offer.
 
quovadis said:
Most of the iterations are necessity due to changes and performance increases in memory chips, storage chips and the fab/silicon itself - for now they have the edge because x86 refuses to die and Microsoft is too focused on copilot to get Windows working flawlessly on Arm. The majority of Mac users on Apple silicon are simply not motivated to upgrade since their M1 is still as good as when they bought it. Anyone with a windows pc from 2020 probably doesn’t feel the same hence why Mac sales typically don’t vary that much year to year.
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They're only there because of competition. They could release processors every 3-4 years. M1 and now M4 or M5. It's not like most of the people who started with M1 MBPs are now doing something which requires an M4 or M5.

quovadis said:
PS. Intel Macs are horrific compared to even the earliest M1 . All they had going for them was really great hardware and ecosystem. Performance, thermals etc were very bad but still edged out most of what PCs had on offer.
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15 inch MBP with i7 and 16GB of RAM is able to do everything usual Apple Macbook users use their machines for, especially if plugged in. Still able to run Photoshop, FCP, etc. Maybe not for 4K but 1080P. But we're talking about most people and that's streaming, email, social media, browsing, etc. Hence M1 should be fine for all the Starbucks brigade and Zoomers who don't rely on time is money and every minute saved is a few thousand bucks in the bank.
 
Mirai said:
They're only there because of competition. They could release processors every 3-4 years. M1 and now M4 or M5. It's not like most of the people who started with M1 MBPs are now doing something which requires an M4 or M5.
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Bud, they’re mostly fab changes. M1 was 5nm. M2 was a a refined 5nm process. M3 was 3nm first edition and M4 was 3nm second edition. M5 is 3nm third generation. Each coincides with faster memory and storage chips. It’s a supply chain game. Not to mention the internal binning which is where the “7 gpu” and core count variations occur to some extent.
Mirai said:
15 inch MBP with i7 and 16GB of RAM is able to do everything usual Apple Macbook users use their machines for, especially if plugged in. Still able to run Photoshop, FCP, etc. Maybe not for 4K but 1080P. But we're talking about most people and that's streaming, email, social media, browsing, etc. Hence M1 should be fine for all the Starbucks brigade and Zoomers who don't rely on time is money and every minute saved is a few thousand bucks in the bank.
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Bud, i have one of those in a drawer and bs, not even close on any metric.
 
quovadis said:
Bud, they’re mostly fab changes. M1 was 5nm. M2 was a a refined 5nm process. M3 was 3nm first edition and M4 was 3nm second edition. M5 is 3nm third generation. Each coincides with faster memory and storage chips. It’s a supply chain game. Not to mention the internal binning which is where the “7 gpu” and core count variations occur to some extent.
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They can skip over fab generations. No-one is forcing them to release every generation, except the competition.

They segment the market to squeeze out every buck and of course to manipulate people with that, storage and RAM options.

quovadis said:
Bud, i have one of those in a drawer and bs, not even close on any metric.
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Which is different to my experience as I own a 2012 rMBP with Nvidia GPU and a 2015 MBP 15 with 16GB and ATI GPU. The rMBP 15 inch from mid 2012 suffers with RAM issues, otherwise for Netflix, Office, browsing etc it is good. Have an old Photoshop license on the 2015 one and it is good enough and definitely great at the above tasks. Therefore an M1 is more than enough for the kids out there who are the majority of Apple users.

An intel Macbook with 16GB of RAM and above is good enough for the tasks non professional people use their macs for especially if used plugged in.

What is a non professional, someone who doesn't earn a living from their Mac's performace to be general about it.
 
Mirai said:
They can skip over fab generations. No-one is forcing them to release every generation, except the competition.

They segment the market to squeeze out every buck and of course to manipulate people with that, storage and RAM options.
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That’s not how it works. If they skip they lose their allocation which they book well in advance.
Mirai said:
Which is different to my experience as I own a 2012 rMBP with Nvidia GPU and a 2015 MBP 15 with 16GB and ATI GPU. The rMBP 15 inch from mid 2012 suffers with RAM issues, otherwise for Netflix, Office, browsing etc it is good. Have an old Photoshop license on the 2015 one and it is good enough and definitely great at the above tasks. Therefore an M1 is more than enough for the kids out there who are the majority of Apple users.

An intel Macbook with 16GB of RAM and above is good enough for the tasks non professional people use their macs for especially if used plugged in.

What is a non professional, someone who doesn't earn a living from their Mac's performace to be general about it.
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It’s dead slow bud. An M1 is not that much different experience in an average usage scenario we’re talking about when compared to an M4 max. You cannot say the same for your intel based Mac compared to an M1 base model.
 
Smiggles said:
You should upgrade from that Intel furnace.
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The 2015 is cool as ice. I have an M3 Max. Why would I upgrade?

You haven't used such devices, maybe your experience is of entry level Mac offerings. In 2015 my one was the top specc'ed model (that iStore had), was about R45K back in 2015.
 
quovadis said:
That’s not how it works. If they skip they lose their allocation which they book well in advance.
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Apple is one of the largest companies. They'll never lose their allocation.


quovadis said:
It’s dead slow bud. An M1 is not that much different experience in an average usage scenario we’re talking about when compared to an M4 max. You cannot say the same for your intel based Mac compared to an M1 base model.
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Nope. Not dead slow.

For basic things on a 2015 MBP with 16GB RAM you won't see a difference, eg for email, Netflix, browsing, Word, etc. I don't see a difference, OK I only own an M3 Max and not an M4 Max. Maybe the M4 Max will make Netflix faster.

What's nicer is the screen but the eyes get used quickly to that unless you side by side compare them.
 
Mirai said:
Apple is one of the largest companies. They'll never lose their allocation.
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They’ve acquired half of TSMCs 2nm capacity available. You think they can acquire 2nd gen 2nm if they simply forego the option? Come on.
Mirai said:
Nope. Not dead slow.

For basic things on a 2015 MBP with 16GB RAM you won't see a difference, eg for email, Netflix, browsing, Word, etc.
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Dead slow especially when it throttles thermally.
 
Mirai said:
The 2015 is cool as ice. I have an M3 Max. Why would I upgrade?

You haven't used such devices, maybe your experience is of entry level Mac offerings. In 2015 my one was the top specc'ed model (that iStore had), was about R45K back in 2015.
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Lol you’re clearly delulu. Maybe go watch some Luke Miani benchmarks and see how terrible they are to M* Macs.
 
quovadis said:
That’s not how it works. If they skip they lose their allocation which they book well in advance.

It’s dead slow bud. An M1 is not that much different experience in an average usage scenario we’re talking about when compared to an M4 max. You cannot say the same for your intel based Mac compared to an M1 base model.
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What's an "average usage scenario"?
 
quovadis said:
They’ve acquired half of TSMCs 2nm capacity available. You think they can acquire 2nd gen 2nm if they simply forego the option? Come on.
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They're Apple. They're in the top 2-3 customers. Nobody will ever give them trouble. Come on. They could have gone M1 to M4 or M5. M1 Max Macbook Pros are still good enough even for demanding video/photo editors. Maybe those pulling 8K, well they had the Ultra desktops for those.

quovadis said:
Dead slow especially when it throttles thermally.
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When it throttles thermally, but it doesn't throttle thermally for Facebook, youtube, Netflix, Insta, music, Office, etc.

Sometimes the thermal throttling is also from dried out conducting paste. One can replace that.

I've noticed a problem with enough RAM on the 8GB machine with a few browser tabs open, but the 16GB one doesn't break a sweat.

I'm not claiming Intel Macbooks from 2015 have the same performance for demanding tasks as M1 and above. But most Apple users don't use their computers that way. Same way that most Apple users don't need the 1TB Pro Max iPhone. And if they have it, 99% don't know how to use the additional functions. It's a status symbol.

I'm actually saying that M1 customers will be happy as long as Apple continues security support, given that a much weaker 2015 computer is still able to handle the same tasks without problems. :) Computers these days are fast enough. It's not the days of the 286 to 386 to 486 to Pentium. And these are not gaming rigs requiring more fps each year.
 
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