Article: Pass black matrics, asks SADTU KZN

[JungleBoy]

Well you don't "study" for Maths the same way you would for English or History do you? Knowing the difference is already part of that i would assume. Figuring out how to study for maths or history [and how the one requires alot more comprehension rather than memorizing facts] . So saying "you just learn" is as vague as saying "the sky is blue" .

The way you study for Maths/English or whatever is also not the same for everybody.
For example, try asking a group of pupils how to spell a very difficult word...some close their eyes and whisper to themselves, some appear to be writing with an invisible pen, some hunt around for paper so they can write it down with a real pen . You see? Some people hear the spelling, some see it, and some feel it.
If the process of learning and remembering things is so diverse and unique to each individual person how exactly do you teach "study skills"?

 

[scotty777]

I'm white, I'm not South African, English is not my mother tongue. Would they have marked me preferentially? The idiot generation is here.

I resent that!

 

[JungleBoy]

You have fundamentals set in your home language, things that come naturally to you doesn't come so naturally to a person who cannot comprehend and is to lazy to do so. The ratio of black students who actually do make it through varsity compared to though who drop out, is much lower than any other group in the country. Mother tongue education has been listed and proven to be the route cause, but many of them feel that their home language offer no significant value and no one has had the will to try and translate some of it. In some languages that can bearly count past 10, how are they suppose to comprehend complicated algebra?

That would mean having mother tongue instruction right through the education system. Is this possible or practical given the fact that
indigenous languages do not even have words for some of the concepts taught at school, simply because such concepts do no exist in the realm of the indigenous cultures. The indigenous African languages were for a long period neglected by the previous government such that they did not develop to same level that Afrikaans did.

 

[zulgin]

That would mean having mother tongue instruction right through the education system. Is this possible or practical given the fact that
indigenous languages do not even have words for some of the concepts taught at school, simply because such concepts do no exist in the realm of the indigenous cultures. The indigenous African languages were for a long period neglected by the previous government such that they did not develop to same level that Afrikaans did.

it is possible yes, if Afrikaans could do it in 10-15 years time then why can't the other languages? Its impractical to have 11 official languages where they can be divided into more or less 3 Nguni type groups. Here is a study from the HSRC proving this, http://www.hsrc.ac.za/HSRC_Review_Article-14.phtml, if we could only translate the Primary school education in this country then we will see significant improvements, the study also concludes that it is cheaper to educate someone in his mother tongue resource wise, at this moment all we are lacking is the willingness from black scholars and their government to translate the curriculum. Its also the parents fault, a few years ago a survey was conducted, it found that only 5% of black students would want to be educated in their mother tongue, compared to about 85% of Afrikaans speaking students, the rest didn't mind.

 

[medicnick83]

I really wish I could go to these meetings where they come up with these ideas

What a joke!

 

[Mila]

Tell me will it make them feel better to know they passed because they are black not because they are clever?

If so let them pass they will not do anything with it in anycase. The board around their neck can say:

Please help
The government did.

 

[JungleBoy]

it is possible yes, if Afrikaans could do it in 10-15 years time then why can't the other languages? Its impractical to have 11 official languages where they can be divided into more or less 3 Nguni type groups. Here is a study from the HSRC proving this, http://www.hsrc.ac.za/HSRC_Review_Article-14.phtml, if we could only translate the Primary school education in this country then we will see significant improvements, the study also concludes that it is cheaper to educate someone in his mother tongue resource wise, at this moment all we are lacking is the willingness from black scholars and their government to translate the curriculum. Its also the parents fault, a few years ago a survey was conducted, it found that only 5% of black students would want to be educated in their mother tongue, compared to about 85% of Afrikaans speaking students, the rest didn't mind.

Afrikaans achieved that by forceful means by the government of the time. I don't know if the current democratically elected government would want to go that route.

I think blaming the language policy is like barking up the wrong tree. The real problem lies with the educators themselves. Some are poorly trained and to make matters worse have a very poor work ethic (forever striking). Schools are also poorly managed by incompetent principals. If the government can fix these problems, then you would see the pass rate improve. The mother tongue issue is not a fundamental problem in my opinion

 

[Mila]

I think blaming the language policy is like barking up the wrong tree. The real problem lies with the educators themselves. Some are poorly trained and to make matters worse have a very poor work ethic (forever striking). Schools are also poorly managed by incompetent principals. If the government can fix these problems, then you would see the pass rate improve. The mother tongue issue is not a fundamental problem in my opinion

+1000

People choose not to have mother toungue education ( democracy is a nice thing ). I'm sure none of them would choose educators that can not educate but that seems to be the only kind we have.

 

[zulgin]

Afrikaans achieved that by forceful means by the government of the time. I don't know if the current democratically elected government would want to go that route.

They don't but at the same time they actually blame their poor results on mother tongue education. This was quoted in an article in Namibia, the only African country who has achnowledged that mother tongue education is an issue at the moment.

It is ironic that in the apartheid system imposed by the South African government, the development of African languages and the publishing of books in these languages received much greater priority than in the present government, which prioritizes the official language to the detriment of the national languages.

The sudden transition from Afrikaans-medium to English-medium instruction in Namibian schools was problematic. Not only learners but also most teachers were struggling with English. Both groups were suffering from anxiety about learning and teaching through the medium of English (Chamberlain, 1993; Melber, 1985. 15).

Within a couple of years after the abrupt switch to English medium education, it became clear that teachers and many learners were not enjoying education in the schools. Already in 1992-1993 both groups were manifesting frustration with having to communicate in a language the majority could not speak and/or understand well; discipline in Namibian schools had deteriorated to an alarming level. Some learners had become so rebellious and aggressive that teachers were afraid of them.

I think the situation sounds familiar, and our government isn't addressing the route causes.

from http://www.sociolingo.com/2009/11/multilingualism-language-policy-namibian-schools/#axzz16rwTtXrx

I think blaming the language policy is like barking up the wrong tree. The real problem lies with the educators themselves. Some are poorly trained and to make matters worse have a very poor work ethic (forever striking). Schools are also poorly managed by incompetent principals. If the government can fix these problems, then you would see the pass rate improve. The mother tongue issue is not a fundamental problem in my opinion

Now I do agree that the Unions don't help the cause at all, these teachers aren't well educated and half of them can't speak English well, at the moment not them, or the government is doing anything to improve the caliber of students that come out of these schools.

 

[zulgin]

+1000

People choose not to have mother toungue education ( democracy is a nice thing ). I'm sure none of them would choose educators that can not educate but that seems to be the only kind we have.

Parents who do so don't realize that they are doing an injustice to their children. There was a big trend post 94 among Afrikaans parents who sent their children to English schools, most of them realized the errors of their ways and currently only 10% of the Afrikaans population in SA sends their children to English Primary schools. Obviously those living abroad don't have a different option.

 

[zippy]

11 Official languages is not practical. Since being taught in your "mother tongue" is the best way, then the official language should be the language used by the majority. Which one would that be then ?Xhosa??

Germany, Japan and other non English speaking countries get by just fine with English not being their official language. Anyway, South Africa isn't in Europe. It's in Africa. Right down there at the bottom.

 

[zulgin]

11 Official languages is not practical. Since being taught in your "mother tongue" is the best way, then the official language should be the language used by the majority. Which one would that be then ?Xhosa??

Germany, Japan and other non English speaking countries get by just fine with English not being their official language. Anyway, South Africa isn't in Europe. It's in Africa. Right down there at the bottom.

Both Germany and Japan educate their children in their mother language in fact Germany actually translates every 2nd movie into German, it is easier to go over to a 2nd language at a later stage than earlier on, hence I believe up to at least grade7 students should be educated in their mother language.

 

[blunomore]

There was a big trend post 94 among Afrikaans parents who sent their children to English schools, most of them realized the errors of their ways and currently only 10% of the Afrikaans population in SA sends their children to Afrikaans Primary schools.

Your statement makes no sense to me.

If they saw the error of their ways, why are only 10% of them sending their children to Afrikaans Primary schools ?

 

[zulgin]

Your statement makes no sense to me.

If they saw the error of their ways, why are only 10% of them sending their children to Afrikaans Primary schools ?

ag, to English schools. My fout.

 

[noxibox]

The mother tongue issue is not a fundamental problem in my opinion

Well I've seen Canadian reports on the same problem. One thing they mentioned as a particular negative was open hostility to the child's mother tongue in the school environment, e.g. prohibiting it's use and meting out punishment to those caught using anything other than the language of instruction.

Of course if parents are also keen to have their child learn in English, then they should be speaking it at home too.

Well you don't "study" for Maths the same way you would for English or History do you? Knowing the difference is already part of that i would assume. Figuring out how to study for maths or history [and how the one requires alot more comprehension rather than memorizing facts] . So saying "you just learn" is as vague as saying "the sky is blue" .

Or teaching soccer by saying you just kick the ball.

The way you study for Maths/English or whatever is also not the same for everybody.
For example, try asking a group of pupils how to spell a very difficult word...some close their eyes and whisper to themselves, some appear to be writing with an invisible pen, some hunt around for paper so they can write it down with a real pen . You see? Some people hear the spelling, some see it, and some feel it.
If the process of learning and remembering things is so diverse and unique to each individual person how exactly do you teach "study skills"?

Is it really that diverse? Why can't you teach techniques to accelerate the learning of spelling?

 

[murraybiscuit]

11 Official languages is not practical. Since being taught in your "mother tongue" is the best way, then the official language should be the language used by the majority. Which one would that be then ?Xhosa??
Germany, Japan and other non English speaking countries get by just fine with English not being their official language. Anyway, South Africa isn't in Europe. It's in Africa. Right down there at the bottom.

well, if the government can't decide which language is the main one, i think it's safe to assume that there isn't one.
let's be clear - south africa isn't the most culturally homogeneous nation, unlike germany and japan.
there's a reason that the largest english speaking nation is china. and there's a reason that they are co-incidentally soon to become the largest global economy.
it's because they realised that their largest market was english speaking (usa) and that learning english would better facilitate trade.
people, we're living in a global world here, we need to move with the cheese.
if i needed to learn mandarin, or my child in future, in order to get ahead of the other competitors in the market, then it's a no brainer.
germany also had a large body and tradition of pre-existing literature and scholastic work, as well as a vocabulary which encompassed the technical aspects of various fields. zulu does not.
okay, i'm being arrogant, but when most scholastic findings, papers and research are being published or translated into english anyways, why go through the extra hurdle of then having to translate that into a colloquial language, and invent new vocabulary every time.
"hermaphrodite" being one example...

 

[zulgin]

well, if the government can't decide which language is the main one, i think it's safe to assume that there isn't one.
let's be clear - south africa isn't the most culturally homogeneous nation, unlike germany and japan.
there's a reason that the largest english speaking nation is china. and there's a reason that they are co-incidentally soon to become the largest global economy.
it's because they realised that their largest market was english speaking (usa) and that learning english would better facilitate trade.
people, we're living in a global world here, we need to move with the cheese.
if i needed to learn mandarin, or my child in future, in order to get ahead of the other competitors in the market, then it's a no brainer.
germany also had a large body and tradition of pre-existing literature and scholastic work, as well as a vocabulary which encompassed the technical aspects of various fields. zulu does not.
okay, i'm being arrogant, but when most scholastic findings, papers and research are being published or translated into english anyways, why go through the extra hurdle of then having to translate that into a colloquial language, and invent new vocabulary every time.
"hermaphrodite" being one example...

your child is going to watch more than enough T.V. and have more than enough exposure to English to be able to speak it properly, however when it comes to understanding complex terminology, research prove that mother tongue fundamentals are essential in his home language before teaching him in his 2nd language.

 

[nakedpeanut]

Well here is the next lot of BEE candidates to screw up the economy more!! We need educated people coming out of matric! Not lazy children that expect everything on a platter! How does the government expect to better this country? Or is it, get on the gravy train while you can and enjoy the ride to Zimbabwe?

I think next year a few kids are going to africanise their names a little more. Then they'll also definitely pass!!

 

[zippy]

well, if the government can't decide which language is the main one, i think it's safe to assume that there isn't one.
let's be clear - south africa isn't the most culturally homogeneous nation, unlike germany and japan.
there's a reason that the largest english speaking nation is china. and there's a reason that they are co-incidentally soon to become the largest global economy.
it's because they realised that their largest market was english speaking (usa) and that learning english would better facilitate trade.
people, we're living in a global world here, we need to move with the cheese.
if i needed to learn mandarin, or my child in future, in order to get ahead of the other competitors in the market, then it's a no brainer.
germany also had a large body and tradition of pre-existing literature and scholastic work, as well as a vocabulary which encompassed the technical aspects of various fields. zulu does not.
okay, i'm being arrogant, but when most scholastic findings, papers and research are being published or translated into english anyways, why go through the extra hurdle of then having to translate that into a colloquial language, and invent new vocabulary every time.
"hermaphrodite" being one example...

South Africa is more culturally homogenous than whites like to believe. Sure you can split the black cultures, but from a black/White point of view it's overwhelmingly black. So why the heck have a European language as the main language ?

Makes no sense at all to have 2 thirds of the population taught in a foreign language

 

[Knyro]

Is this finally an admittance that blacks just cannot compete academically? I certainly think so.

I resent this statement. I'm black and have been owning academically since I can remember. I even won the Maths, Physical Science and Computer Science prizes in Matric (went to a majority white private school). Even in University I got First Class passes. I don't think that any one group of people is inherently deficient or superior mentally. Take the US, where Asians on average outperform white people academically, they can't ALL be geniuses as this would not correlate with the distribution of IQ scores (yes yes, controversy and all that but it's the currently accepted way of testing mental ability). Therefore it must be cultural, as traditionally Asian populations value education, the pursuit of education and educated individuals. We need to value education and hard work more in this country and the way we perceive it, i.e. stop seeing studying as being uncool etc. Then we wouldn't end up with such ignoramuses in government as we would value the learned man more than the idiot with a criminal record.

I'm also not buying this mother tongue nonsense. I learned English after my mother tongue(SeSotho) but If I had to write an Exam in Sotho I'd probably fail abysmally. This is because my command of is English 100 times better than my knowledge of Sotho. People don't necessarily know their mother tongue best even if they only picked up their second language later in life. While the ideal would be to let everyone write in the language they know best let's face it with 11 languages this is just not practical especially in the short term. Like it or not the prevalent language (especially in the sciences) happens to be English, just like it was once German, Latin, Ancient Greek etc. so deal with it, learn it and move on.