Article: Pass black matrics, asks SADTU KZN

Resent all you want, then look at all the facts again and resent some more because you are the exception to the rule my friend. My statement pointed out a trend. Just because you feel you don't fit the curve doesn't make my observation invalid.

They're not coping academically because the majority of them are poor, not because they're black. It's an observable trend the world over that poor children are more likely to fail academically than their more priviledged counterparts, even in ethnically homogeneous countries like Japan and eastern European countries. Therefore your statement that black people cannot cope academically is false. That's why I stated that I went to a private school, not to brag, but to indicate that I had a much easier time acquiring an education than most black students. If your day to day life includes worrying where your next meal is going to come from, planning your 10km route home that will minimise your chances of being robbed/getting caught between a gang shootout because the area you live in is so dangerous etc. academics are the last thing on your mind.

Poorer schools also tend to be more dysfunctional than wealthier ones and on average have inferior teachers. If your teachers didn't show up everyday, or if they did, they showed up 3 hours late and drunk, it would almost certainly have a negative impact on your marks. The schools will have a shortage of desks, textbooks, broken doors and windows so it's extremely cold in winter. They will have some students who stab others as they have already have been recruited by criminal gangs in the area. All of these problems build up, disrupt classes and impede a students academic progress.

Succeeding in university is a different matter entirely. Some of the lucky ones who do make it to university have never even used a PC in their lives which already puts them at a disadvantage in uni, especially in the scientific/engineering courses and maths. It has also been observed that children with parents that have graduated from a university are more likely to succeed in varsity. Your statement that blacks cannot compete academically is false and should be more along the lines of the poorer you are the more likely you are to fail academically. These students are failing because they're poor, and the majority of the poor just happen to be black. There not failing because they're black.
 
They're not coping academically because the majority of them are poor, not because they're black. It's an observable trend the world over that poor children are more likely to fail academically than their more priviledged counterparts, even in ethnically homogeneous countries like Japan and eastern European countries. Therefore your statement that black people cannot cope academically is false. That's why I stated that I went to a private school, not to brag, but to indicate that I had a much easier time acquiring an education than most black students. If your day to day life includes worrying where your next meal is going to come from, planning your 10km route home that will minimise your chances of being robbed/getting caught between a gang shootout because the area you live in is so dangerous etc. academics are the last thing on your mind.

Poorer schools also tend to be more dysfunctional than wealthier ones and on average have inferior teachers. If your teachers didn't show up everyday, or if they did, they showed up 3 hours late and drunk, it would almost certainly have a negative impact on your marks. The schools will have a shortage of desks, textbooks, broken doors and windows so it's extremely cold in winter. They will have some students who stab others as they have already have been recruited by criminal gangs in the area. All of these problems build up, disrupt classes and impede a students academic progress.

Succeeding in university is a different matter entirely. Some of the lucky ones who do make it to university have never even used a PC in their lives which already puts them at a disadvantage in uni, especially in the scientific/engineering courses and maths. It has also been observed that children with parents that have graduated from a university are more likely to succeed in varsity. Your statement that blacks cannot compete academically is false and should be more along the lines of the poorer you are the more likely you are to fail academically. These students are failing because they're poor, and the majority of the poor just happen to be black. There not failing because they're black.

You are quite correct of course.

BUT

He's just responding to the request by the unions

"PLease mark black students differently"

Begets

"Why, Cant they cope?"

See, cause and effect
 
engineering you only made it if your Math and science ( think it was those two ) score were an A.
On standard grade yes. Higher grade the minimum was probably a D (might have been a C, but certainly no higher).

Are you sure about that? I bet you around 20 years ago, there were far fewer people being awarded firsts in individual subjects than they are now. For instance, last year they introduced an exam based purely on multiple-choice questions... and around 20% of the class of ~1200 students obtained firsts. Obviously there are still subjects which are hard to obtain firsts (essay-based subjects) but I definitely have proof of exams getting easier. As recently as 2006, the highest mark in one course was 78% (they had 5 essays to do) and this year it was 95% (40 MCQs and one essay).

So it's not really grade inflation but rather the structure has been made easier (the content is very much the same).

I suppose in engineering it is different where international standards have to be adhered to.
Some courses used multiple choice at UCT in the 80s and 90s. Actually depended on the subject matter. But engineering was always a subject where you could game the exams. Go through enough past papers and you can detect the patterns of particular lecturers.
 
You are quite correct of course.

BUT

He's just responding to the request by the unions

"PLease mark black students differently"

Begets

"Why, Cant they cope?"

See, cause and effect

Ah but you see evilstebunny didn't ask "why, can't they cope?". S/he said "Is this FINALLY an admission that blacks can't cope academically? I think so". This implies that s/he's had their mind made up for some time that blacks are inherently academically inferior without really considering all the issues. This is not to say that I am in favour of biased marking, which will cause far greater harm than good. I just want people to have a litte understanding of what these students go through, and not just write them off as being lazy/stupid.
 
Ah but you see evilstebunny didn't ask "why, can't they cope?". S/he said "Is this FINALLY an admission that blacks can't cope academically? I think so". This implies that s/he's had their mind made up for some time that blacks are inherently academically inferior without really considering all the issues. This is not to say that I am in favour of biased marking, which will cause far greater harm than good. I just want people to have a litte understanding of what these students go through, and not just write them off as being lazy/stupid.

Fair enough.

Interestingly, the unions' argument is also based solely on race, and not socio-economic circumstances.

A different question - should we, when supposedly assessing objective performance do so using a subjective measure?
 
On standard grade yes. Higher grade the minimum was probably a D (might have been a C, but certainly no higher).

.

Please supply links

( no I'm not fighting , going to be pissed off when I find out the BS I was fed)

I Did post mine.

Oh and sorry for the horrible spelling :)
 
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Ah but you see evilstebunny didn't ask "why, can't they cope?". S/he said "Is this FINALLY an admission that blacks can't cope academically? I think so". This implies that s/he's had their mind made up for some time that blacks are inherently academically inferior without really considering all the issues. This is not to say that I am in favour of biased marking, which will cause far greater harm than good. I just want people to have a litte understanding of what these students go through, and not just write them off as being lazy/stupid.

"The KwaZulu-Natal branch of the SA Democratic Teachers' Union (Sadtu) has called on "biased marking" in favour of black matrics, the Sowetan newspaper reported Wednesday."

I see no reference to white/colored or other disadvantaged matrics in the above statement. Why the call for preferential treatment of blacks when surely school-going kids from other races also struggle or face similar difficulties? What other conclusion is there except that they're trying to play the race card again?
 
Please supply links

( no I'm not fighting , going to be pissed off when I find out the BS I was fed)

I Did post mine.

Oh and sorry for the horrible spelling :)
Back then we got our information from booklets they handed out at the administration building. There was no world wide web!
 
Hmmm I know varsity entrance in 1997 required D - C higher grade all round. I remember getting in to Engineering which required 32 points and a D/C HG maths and Science. Got a C avg which scored 34 points in those days.

+1 to Noxibox. We had to write/post our entrance letters :D
 
"The KwaZulu-Natal branch of the SA Democratic Teachers' Union (Sadtu) has called on "biased marking" in favour of black matrics, the Sowetan newspaper reported Wednesday."

I see no reference to white/colored or other disadvantaged matrics in the above statement. Why the call for preferential treatment of blacks when surely school-going kids from other races also struggle or face similar difficulties? What other conclusion is there except that they're trying to play the race card again?

They're saying black students because they are the majority of the disadvantaged and clearly they are racist. It's very unfair and I'm against biased marking anyway even if they included poor white/coloured/indian etc. students. Just because SADTU wants to push a policy that only benefits blacks is not a reflection on black students' ability. Yes they are biased but it is illogical to draw the conclusion you did from such a one-sided organisation

My post had nothing to do with SADTU policy anyway. It was simply to disprove your racial comment.
 
The culture of entitlement is reaching absurd extremes.

I actually feel sorry for the few hard working blacks out there who work hard and achieve great things through merit who are going to be lumped together with the drooling imbecile masses. There is no external motivation to excell anymore if you are black. Arb through school and 'varsity and get marked up walk into an unearned high paying AA position where performance isn't a criteria. The rewards for failure are as great as for excellence. Black leaders of today are the biggest enemies of their own race.

All the while white youth are forced to work harder and perform better which betters them immeasurably.
 
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Please supply links

( no I'm not fighting , going to be pissed off when I find out the BS I was fed)

I Did post mine.

Oh and sorry for the horrible spelling :)

http://www.ee.up.ac.za/main/en/undergrad/index

http://www.uct.ac.za/apply/criteria/undergraduates/ebe/

The requirements were less strict in 2005 (because it wasn't as easy to get an A back then) and you needed a C for maths and science HG before they'd even consider you (and no subjects may be on SG). I matriculated with 2 A's and 4 B's, got into computer (electrical + comp sci) engineering (at UP) and was one of the 3 people in my course to get my degree with distinction. A large number of people got in with 4 A's and 2 B's and they're still undergrads.

Universities have kept their standards, it hasn't been more difficult in the past (there's a reason they have the NBT now), it's just that the primary and secondary schooling system hasn't. Plus, these governmental recommendations of whether your matric will get you university entrance or not are simple bullcrap since it's not the government that decides whether you get into a university or not.

I don't bother anymore :p
 
Also the "lower the academic standards because poor schools are putting black kids at a disadvantage" argument makes me spitting mad. The answer is to improve the standards of schools, not to destroy the standard of education.

How about firing the absentee, drunken, abusive teachers and holding them to account? Wait, there is the culture of entitlement again. They don't have to work hard to keep their jobs so they don't.

How about integrating schools into communities so that the people are proud of their schools? The school should be the core of a community, they should have small gardens so that those hungry kids can have fresh fruit and veg for school lunch, the school room should double up as community centres teaching life skills and adult literacy. Education should become the cornerstone of the community. The community should be proud of their school and what it accomplishes. This is how you do it. The school should not just be another building to burn down because government isn't handing out enough free money for alcohol and airtime.

The solution is simple. Spend the next 20 years with the strategy and will to put this in place and the country is 50% fixed.
 
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The Teachers should also have to write the exam for the subject/s they a teaching, If they can't ace them, they can't teach them and should be replaced with more competent teachers.
 
I don't bother anymore :p

From you:
Admission requirements
The minimum requirements for formal admission to the Faculty of Engineering, Built Environment and Information Technology are:

Minimum for Mathematics (HG) - 7 (80%-100%)
Minimum for Physical Science (HG) - 6 (70%-79%)
I do see that PTA has a higher level as UCT

UCT-
40 admission points and above (7 for Mathematics and Physical Science)
80-89 B or higher
Minimum
32 admission points (6 for Mathematics and Physical Science)
70-79


Sorry my bad. I see you can apply if you have a C ( we are talking engineering )

Before 2008:


56 and above
B for either (HG), Maths or Science and a C for the other
Minimum:
D (HG) Maths and Science and 50 points

But there you still had the difference between HG and LG.

I still stick to my:

A lazy ass that needs to be passed because they play the race card would make a shyte employee.
 
From you:
Admission requirements
The minimum requirements for formal admission to the Faculty of Engineering, Built Environment and Information Technology are:


I do see that PTA has a higher level as UCT

UCT- 80-89 B or higher
Minimum
70-79


Sorry my bad. I see you can apply if you have a C ( we are talking engineering )

Before 2008:



Minimum:


But there you still had the difference between HG and LG.

I still stick to my:

A lazy ass that needs to be passed because they play the race card would make a shyte employee.

On a note: The points don't matter as each university has their own scoring method, but the actual matric marks should be the same.
 
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