Axpert invertors

savage said:
BTW...

A single (white) panel'ed DB board, with 1 'mains breaker' and 1 'alternative power' breaker, having say 5 10A breakers and 5 20A breakers, is NOT clear seperation. Even though you have an breaker marked 'alternative power', there is still uncertainty as to which of the 10A and 20A breakers are fed from which supplies (if that makes sense). In other words, I can switch off your 'alternative supply', but I still won't know which of your 10A or 20A breakers are energized or not. This is a good example of a single (split) DB, which does NOT have adequate separation.
Click to expand...

I'm so glad you said that it only count for white DBs. Mine is hammerite grey. :) You did pour some cold water on me though. :)

I was (and still am) hoping to get away with a split DB. The DB is in the passage between the bedrooms, built into the wall, hence my reason hoping that a second DB could be avoided. It is an old DB with mostly huge Heinemann breakers, so I was hoping to swap them all for the new 13 mm breakers and 26 mm double pole breakers. Then there would be space for 26 of them. So if I then only need 22 in total, I was thinking of laying it out logical from the left, mains switch, breakers not earth leakaged, earth leakage, other breakers. Then a space and then the alternate supply earth leakage (with overload), indicator and all the breakers behind that. Then red tape vertically in the space between the two sets, with all the labeling as required. To me it feels very clear?

BTW. Trying to open your attachment just gives this error:
Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator
Click to expand...
 
Regarding the separation - If you have all your UPS isolators, E/L and breakers in a clearly marked section of the DB, grouped together, I really can't see why that would be a problem. It is clearly separated.

What is suitable separation will always be up to interpretation I suppose.
 
greg_SA said:
Regarding the separation - If you have all your UPS isolators, E/L and breakers in a clearly marked section of the DB, grouped together, I really can't see why that would be a problem. It is clearly separated.

What is suitable separation will always be up to interpretation I suppose.
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That's exactly the point yes. IMHO also the reason why most would recommend (I'm not sure about the -insist- bit) to have it in a separate board... A separate board CANNOT be misinterpreted.

Again, IMHO, you're already spending 40K+ on a decent system (Batteries + Inverter)... 100K+ if going solar. Don't be a cheap skate, spend the R500 odd, and buy a seperate board. You will have to pay for the breakers in any case, whether you have a separate board or not, so the additional few bobs for a separate board, really, should not even be an issue.


A small 8-Way DB (which should be sufficient if you plan carefully), isn't even R300...
 
savage said:
That's exactly the point yes. IMHO also the reason why most would recommend (I'm not sure about the -insist- bit) to have it in a separate board... A separate board CANNOT be misinterpreted.

Again, IMHO, you're already spending 40K+ on a decent system (Batteries + Inverter)... 100K+ if going solar. Don't be a cheap skate, spend the R500 odd, and buy a seperate board. You will have to pay for the breakers in any case, whether you have a separate board or not, so the additional few bobs for a separate board, really, should not even be an issue.


A small 8-Way DB (which should be sufficient if you plan carefully), isn't even R300...
Click to expand...


It's not a case of being a cheap skate, It's the location of the current DB

JohnHay said:
I was (and still am) hoping to get away with a split DB. The DB is in the passage between the bedrooms, built into the wall, hence my reason hoping that a second DB could be avoided.
Click to expand...

Having another DB installed will be way more than just R500 if you want it to look decent in your passage.
I have the exact same problem as JohnHay
 
Precisely, I don't want an ugly surface mount wart sticking out the wall. That's my issue right now.

If I can get away with a partitioned DB, life would be easier (and more beautiful).
 
Here's another question: Can you have normal supply and emergency supply in the same conduit?

I.e. can I have a normal plug circuit L & N as well as a dedicated L & N, together with a common earth in the same conduit?

I have a case where I have 4 plug sockets fed from the same circuit, one chained to the next. If I install my inverter supply into the same conduit, I can replace only the plug socket needed with a red dedicated socket and connect up the other L & N pair to that plug face.

The alternative, of course is to chase in new conduit. A scenario I do not wish to contemplate...
 
DollyAAAA said:
Here's another question: Can you have normal supply and emergency supply in the same conduit?
Click to expand...

Maximum of 6 x 2.5mm2 cables allowed in a 20mm conduit, 9 if you have 25mm2 conduits. You can't mix low voltage, and high voltage systems in the same conduit either.

Other than that - yes, you are allowed to do that.
 
The Axpert looks very similar (identical?) to the models supplied by MPP Solar in Taiwan (http://www.mppsolar.com)

Can someone with experience in these units confirm :

  1. Noise levels on a 3kVA or similar Axpert - i.e. fan noise, buzzing. Is there noise when running off mains supply? Or only noise during mains failure? Is the noise tolerable enough to place the unit in the living area e.g. lounge area
  2. If running low power load i.e. <1000 watts, could this unit be used in a non-fixed manner - e.g. connected unmounted next to a TV cabinet (firmly secured in place).
  3. If connected as a UPS device (Input to unit from wall plug, output to multiplug) as in 2 above, would one still recommend breakers/EL etc? Is this scenario in point 3 feasible? i.e. not connected to the DB but as a standalone unit with input from wall plug as stated above.
 
1) Fan is only on during batery mode, noise level depends on load (how more load, how noisier the fan). Under highish load, I would not advise it in a living area. The Buzzer (alarm) is insanely loud.
2) Yes, although I would highly recommend you secure it by mounting it against a wall / wooden cabinet.
3) No E/L / Breakers required. Your plug supplying the unit already is protected by E/L, and acts as a suitable disconnect point (by removing the plug) in terms of safety.
 
Thanks Chris, under what conditions will the alarm sound? Assume it will shut off at low battery voltage? And that alarm can be turned off via software?
 
It sounds at a ow battery warning (can't be disabled), when the mains becomes available/unavailable (can be disabled), and then I presume on any error condition (which I don't think you can disable).

These things should all be available in the manuals (available online)
 
Ok, so last night I changed my wiring so that the 20A single breaker that feeds the Axpert is fed from right after the main 60A dp breaker, so before the earth leakage. Then I bonded the neutral and earth on the output of the Axpert as recommended by savage. Tested it and all is happy. No more floating neutral in battery mode. :D

So, my DB has 3 sections: main breaker (dp 60A), which feeds geyser, stove and inverter breakers, as well as the EL. The EL section feeds 3 plug circuit breakers. Lastly, the inverter feed comes back in to a 20A dp breaker, which feeds a 10A dedicated plug circuit and a 10A light circuit.

I still have to clean up the DB so that it is partitioned better, having the main & EL section on the top row and the inverter section on the bottom row. Then mark it clearly and add the power present indicator lights.

I don't have an EL on the inverter output, as I have dedicated type red sockets on that circuit but I may add one later for safety's sake.

Getting there slowly...
 
desiganp said:
The Axpert looks very similar (identical?) to the models supplied by MPP Solar in Taiwan (http://www.mppsolar.com)

Can someone with experience in these units confirm :

  1. Noise levels on a 3kVA or similar Axpert - i.e. fan noise, buzzing. Is there noise when running off mains supply? Or only noise during mains failure? Is the noise tolerable enough to place the unit in the living area e.g. lounge area
  2. If running low power load i.e. <1000 watts, could this unit be used in a non-fixed manner - e.g. connected unmounted next to a TV cabinet (firmly secured in place).
  3. If connected as a UPS device (Input to unit from wall plug, output to multiplug) as in 2 above, would one still recommend breakers/EL etc? Is this scenario in point 3 feasible? i.e. not connected to the DB but as a standalone unit with input from wall plug as stated above.
Click to expand...

There are actually 2 fans. Dead quiet while in normal bypass mode, but 1 will spin when the inverter starts working (battery mode). As soon as your power comes back on the other fan will spin up, presumably to cool the charger. This may last several hours, depending on your DOD.

I would not recommend mounting it anywhere near your TV. Mine's in the garage, and in retrospect, couldn't be in a better place.
 
DollyAAAA said:
Ok, so last night I changed my wiring so that the 20A single breaker that feeds the Axpert is fed from right after the main 60A dp breaker, so before the earth leakage. Then I bonded the neutral and earth on the output of the Axpert as recommended by savage. Tested it and all is happy. No more floating neutral in battery mode. :D

So, my DB has 3 sections: main breaker (dp 60A), which feeds geyser, stove and inverter breakers, as well as the EL. The EL section feeds 3 plug circuit breakers. Lastly, the inverter feed comes back in to a 20A dp breaker, which feeds a 10A dedicated plug circuit and a 10A light circuit.

I still have to clean up the DB so that it is partitioned better, having the main & EL section on the top row and the inverter section on the bottom row. Then mark it clearly and add the power present indicator lights.

I don't have an EL on the inverter output, as I have dedicated type red sockets on that circuit but I may add one later for safety's sake.

Getting there slowly...
Click to expand...

That's exactly the kind of setup I would like, but I think the 5K will be overkill for my needs. I will most probably look at a 3K, hell even a 1K might work for the little I need to power (thinking loadshedding only at this stage) ;)
 
COMPUTEK said:
That's exactly the kind of setup I would like, but I think the 5K will be overkill for my needs. I will most probably look at a 3K, hell even a 1K might work for the little I need to power (thinking loadshedding only at this stage) ;)
Click to expand...

I have a 2K with 2 x 102Ah in series, and very happy with it. I run ALL my lights (all LED) and 2 plugs (TV, decoder, amp, sub, BD & Media PC on one and PC, 2 monitors & router on the other). When typical things are on, goes to about 600VA. Never had it over 1200VA, with everything on. I was contemplating adding the fridge, but for now, not going to bother as it's cold enough.

The big advantage of the 2K to me is that I didn't have to change my breaker & wiring going to the garage. 20A is specified by the manual. Going bigger would have required me to replace the wiring and breaker.
 
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