DollyAAAA
Well-Known Member
Looking good. Where did you get the DC breakers?
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Axpert invertors
- Thread starter Draganchor
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I'm also interested in where you got those breakers and also the batteries. Vitamin_Sea I see you are also in Pretoria. 
I would still prefer LiFePO4, but the group buy seems awfully quiet and the Sako one, still a little expensive.
I would still prefer LiFePO4, but the group buy seems awfully quiet and the Sako one, still a little expensive.mmacleod
Well-Known Member
Would also like to know, most the DC rated breakers I'm finding are either single pole or hellishly expensive.
Dimpie (JIGSAW)
Honorary Master
Is the DC breaker a replacement on a fuse ... will this trip instead of blowing a fuse or is it just a manual on/off?
mmacleod
Well-Known Member
They are similar, fuses respond faster so it isn't a complete equivalence, for something like this they are equivalent but in other cases not.
Yes it will trip but also has the convenience of being a manual on/off, same as e.g. the breakers in your DB board.
If you do use breakers make sure they are DC rated, not all AC breakers can be used for DC as well.
greg_SA
Expert Member
Personal preference I suppose. I wanted them out of the way, and not accessible by a toddler. I also like to keep the floor in the garage clear.
Chris Hobson
Member
I have been researching Axpert/Mecer/Giant/PIP inverters. There seems to be a group of disgruntled Aussie users who claim that the inverter blows caps and that it over charges at times. My 5kVa 48V model is up on the wall and I will complete the installation next week so I am committed already. I have only had good reports of these machines. Any South Africans had trouble?
savage
Expert Member
I am not personally aware of one single unit that failed (yet)...
The_Traveller
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when was the first install you did ? As in how many years ago? Because from what I know , these systems have a 5 year lifespan.
The_Traveller
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anything above 20ms will shut off power. (Maybe even 15ms)
This device appears to be a transformerless design which makes use of MOSFETS - based on my research MOSFET based inverters (high frequency inverters) tend to have a lifespan of at least 3-5 years, whereas the transformer based inverters tend to have at least 10 years life span. The feature that sets this device (Axpert/MPP) apart from others, is the ability to view/control parameters via software. I have yet to come across a similar product having this feature and at this price range.
Also the transformer based design tends to be bulky, heavy and makes a buzzing noise (from my experience), not sure if all are that way. I presume the common Mecer UPS inverters are the transformer-based type, that is why alot of people say they are noisy and they are also bulky but apparently more resilient.
I believe the Australian issue was related to the solar charge controller and not mains charge.
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Dimpie (JIGSAW)
Honorary Master
Vitamin_Sea
Member
Hi DollyAAAA and JohnHay.
It is just AC breakers to isolate the battery. I got them for dirt cheap as Metro Centurion is relocating, 32A was 25 bucks, and a 63A was 75.
My house is so energy efficient now that i wanted to use the existing EL behind the Axpert, and slap the 32A in before the Axpert between it and Eskom, since the Axpert is grounded to the Earth on the panel too. (Reason, should I have a short somewhere , the EL does disconnect and the axpert takes over on battery power, could be quite expensive error there.)
Simple maths dictate that you effectively need to pull over 7KW for 32A to trip, and the most I ever use is is the pizza oven at 2,7kW, for 12 minutes. my total monthly consumption is below 180KWh. SO, even if my trusty Axpert charges at 60A, ( 60A x 56v = 3.4kw, and I use the pizza oven, I still have enough for the basic consumption (15 day average consumption measurements: 6am to 6pm =414w, and 6pm to 6am is =93w).
one tip, through the efforts of getting these last stats I also learned a valuable lesson. Tuesdays are washing days, and the consumption is about 500W per day hour for tuesdays, and wednesdays are the worst, like 730w. it is the iron (2kW) and the vacuum (2,4kw) used by the domestic. I got home after a meeting early one wednesday and saw her ironing(2kw) with a 2kw fan heater on as well. I manage to restrain myself and now all the heaters are locked away in the garage.
geting back the DC breakers, you shoulde be able to order them from communica in midrand i guess. I also have a friend of mine working for Solareff, the guys who did Clearwater malls 2000 panel installation, so you could give coen fourie a buzz at solareff.
It is just AC breakers to isolate the battery. I got them for dirt cheap as Metro Centurion is relocating, 32A was 25 bucks, and a 63A was 75.
My house is so energy efficient now that i wanted to use the existing EL behind the Axpert, and slap the 32A in before the Axpert between it and Eskom, since the Axpert is grounded to the Earth on the panel too. (Reason, should I have a short somewhere , the EL does disconnect and the axpert takes over on battery power, could be quite expensive error there.)
Simple maths dictate that you effectively need to pull over 7KW for 32A to trip, and the most I ever use is is the pizza oven at 2,7kW, for 12 minutes. my total monthly consumption is below 180KWh. SO, even if my trusty Axpert charges at 60A, ( 60A x 56v = 3.4kw, and I use the pizza oven, I still have enough for the basic consumption (15 day average consumption measurements: 6am to 6pm =414w, and 6pm to 6am is =93w).
one tip, through the efforts of getting these last stats I also learned a valuable lesson. Tuesdays are washing days, and the consumption is about 500W per day hour for tuesdays, and wednesdays are the worst, like 730w. it is the iron (2kW) and the vacuum (2,4kw) used by the domestic. I got home after a meeting early one wednesday and saw her ironing(2kw) with a 2kw fan heater on as well. I manage to restrain myself and now all the heaters are locked away in the garage.
geting back the DC breakers, you shoulde be able to order them from communica in midrand i guess. I also have a friend of mine working for Solareff, the guys who did Clearwater malls 2000 panel installation, so you could give coen fourie a buzz at solareff.
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Vitamin_Sea
Member
I'm also interested in where you got those breakers and also the batteries. Vitamin_Sea I see you are also in Pretoria.
The batteries: direct from the importer - mike at Sinetech. was R4600 a pop in April.
Vitamin_Sea
Member
also havent hear of one in SA, but know of a aussie friend who ordered the HSPIP from MPP taiwan had a Cap issue too. I am extremely pleased with my Axpert that I got through bonanzatech/mustek. have not had a days trouble except the data cable through USB serial converter that makes a PC freeze.
Vitamin_Sea
Member
None whatso-ever, at all. It is seamless, and a quick flicker is all but detected by eye.
Its a pity, I was hoping they were DC rated in the region of 100A.
I had a look on Communica's web site, but did not see any.After seeing savage's nice DB, I felt like sulking a little because that won't work in the passage between the rooms. My garage is not attached to the house so extra cables between the house would entail armoured cables and breaking the cement "floor" of the courtyard between the house and garage.
So I went to have another look at my DB. It is actually amazing, I have not needed an electrician in 20 years. Well not totally true, the guy that did the solar geyser about 4 years ago, left his sticker on the lid, and I had an electric fence installed 5 years ago, but that was in the garage.
Ok, so instead of a show and tell, I'll do a show and ask.
While not totally tidy, at least it looks like all loads are on the bottom of the breakers.
I see my earth bar has only 3 terminals and they look pretty full.
So can one just add another earth bar and tie them together or extend that one? Do they have to be next to each other? I know you are not supposed to share neutral terminals, is there a rule like that for the earths too? I hope not. I guess I have to search the SANS doc again. ):
There is also only one neutral bar. I guess I will need two more, one between main supply, E/L, geyser and the breaker for the inverter. And then another neutral bar for the inverter load side. My current thinking is to just put all of it behind an E/L that also have overload. So can one add one on the left of the mains switch and one on the right side? And can one just drill and tap holes for them? I have seen that one can get ones that clip in, but that would use valuable breaker space.
While looking I noticed that the neutral going from my E/L to the neutral bar do not have all its wires in the terminal. Oops, and it has been like that forever and everything except the geyser go through that.
So I went to have another look at my DB.
It is actually amazing, I have not needed an electrician in 20 years. Well not totally true, the guy that did the solar geyser about 4 years ago, left his sticker on the lid, and I had an electric fence installed 5 years ago, but that was in the garage.Ok, so instead of a show and tell, I'll do a show and ask.
While not totally tidy, at least it looks like all loads are on the bottom of the breakers.
I see my earth bar has only 3 terminals and they look pretty full.
So can one just add another earth bar and tie them together or extend that one? Do they have to be next to each other? I know you are not supposed to share neutral terminals, is there a rule like that for the earths too? I hope not. I guess I have to search the SANS doc again. ):There is also only one neutral bar. I guess I will need two more, one between main supply, E/L, geyser and the breaker for the inverter. And then another neutral bar for the inverter load side. My current thinking is to just put all of it behind an E/L that also have overload. So can one add one on the left of the mains switch and one on the right side? And can one just drill and tap holes for them? I have seen that one can get ones that clip in, but that would use valuable breaker space.
While looking I noticed that the neutral going from my E/L to the neutral bar do not have all its wires in the terminal.
Oops, and it has been like that forever and everything except the geyser go through that.mmacleod
Well-Known Member
I've found DC rated breakers so far at the following places:Its a pity, I was hoping they were DC rated in the region of 100A.
1) acdc.co.za (Single and double pole but they are pricey)
2) suistainable.co.za (http://www.sustainable.co.za/catalogsearch/result/?q=circuit+breaker) the single pole ones aren't too bad but the double pole ones will set you back an arm and a leg, why are double pole DC breakers so disproportionately expensive, surely they should cost basically double what a single pole one does, what am I missing?
If anyone finds at other places please share. Using a breaker that is only AC rated at anywhere above 40V DC is apparently a giant fire hazard so please be careful of this and try to use either DC specific ones or at least AC ones that also have a DC rating (DC rating usually much lower than AC rating).
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