Axxess & p2p..throttling?

[louisp]

All I say:

throttling is wrong... pirating is wrong.... but 2 wrongs dont make a right!!

*********

If I use my internet for illegal practises, then cut off my internet, but dont throttle everyone.

**********

Back to the topic...

I haven't noticed 2 much of a difference (maybe I'm not using the same ports?). But my EQ2 downloads are def. much much slower.

 

[Clipse]

Hi louisp, I send you a private message. Maybe that can help you, if all fail.

 

[louisp]

Thx clipse, got it!!

 

[JohnDoe]

Hi Clipse, u got a PM...Please assist.

 

[Kalvaer]

All I say:

throttling is wrong... pirating is wrong.... but 2 wrongs dont make a right!!

*********

If I use my internet for illegal practises, then cut off my internet, but dont throttle everyone.

**********

So true louisp.. No offence to anyone and its common knowledge that I hate P2P. I have no problems with people using P2P apps.
What I have a problem with is people moaning about throttling or shaping their P2P and then bragging about their 170 gig download/upload for the month on their 3 gig accounts...

I also agree with some people here saying that they paid for 30 gigs and they wnat their 30 gigs.. Nothing wrong, But I'm afriad there a few people (and a number of them on these forums) who Abuse the system. Only way we will ever not have throttling and shaping is if we can stop the people who are spoiling it for those of us who want to get what we pay for

 

[Celemasiko]

So true louisp.. No offence to anyone and its common knowledge that I hate P2P. I have no problems with people using P2P apps.
What I have a problem with is people moaning about throttling or shaping their P2P and then bragging about their 170 gig download/upload for the month on their 3 gig accounts...

I also agree with some people here saying that they paid for 30 gigs and they wnat their 30 gigs.. Nothing wrong, But I'm afriad there a few people (and a number of them on these forums) who Abuse the system. Only way we will ever not have throttling and shaping is if we can stop the people who are spoiling it for those of us who want to get what we pay for

There will be always some black sheeps, you can not avoid it in such a big community. But the much bigger part here is quite reasonable whereby I am also of that idea that you should get what you paid for....

 

[bb_matt]

Nothing wrong, But I'm afriad there a few people (and a number of them on these forums) who Abuse the system. Only way we will ever not have throttling and shaping is if we can stop the people who are spoiling it for those of us who want to get what we pay for

Yes and no.

Why should ISP's punish everyone because a few people abuse the system ?
We shouldn't be responsible for that, the ISP's should.

Therefore, if a person can get away with downloading 100gig on a 30gig account, let them - BUT the ISP must do their best to prevent this abuse without making everyone else suffer

Unfortunately, they do exactly that - screw around everyone else because a few people abuse the system.

It's the same as treating people like kids - teacher says "right, everyone is staying after school until someone tells me who did it !"

It's total bullsh1t to act in this manner and treat your customers like children because you can't monitor your own network properly.

 

[Clipse]

Regarding the "users screwing the rest over and that being the reason for shaping" absolute bull****.

Its allways been shaped, just more nowadays.. in the begin, adsl had very few users, much lower international contention back then and so we got away with it. What happened over time? Telkom got more adsl users, didnt increase international bandwidth but increased the shaping priorities and so we feel the whole "shaped" vs "unshaped" feel on majority of applications.

The real issue here, Telkom is making abuse of this, by forcing the other side of the market to get unshaped, AT A PRICE...

They are basicly selling, for more, the product everyone had in the beginning.

 

[Kalvaer]

Agreed with you both. As said I hate throttling and I hate Shaping, Since I'm a gamer I can not play on shapped lines. I also want to get my moneys worth out of my ADSL each month. I can not do that though with people abusing the P2P system even with my crappy latency.

I disagree completly though with people who downlaod 100 gigs on their accounts.
We can not stand by and just say "let them do it" To use a simular analogy bb_Matt to your teacher.. Is it also ok then if you know somebody has murdered somebody, and you dont do anything about and say "well let the police catch them"

One might argue that one is breaking the law the other is only breaking rules... Though its a very fine line if you ask me. My father always used to have a saying that went, "If you lie you can steal as well " Just because one is more wrong than another.. does not make it right.

Of course I also hate the idea of Local capping being implemented.. But after thinking about it I can see how it will be better for all of us. By implementing local capping it will stop these people from abusing the system. Hit your Cap and bye bye! What these means to the rest of us is faster lines, and hopefully pricing can come down because we no longer have 1 idiot using 57 other peoples paid for bandwidth while he laughs and posts on these boards about his large 178 gig download/upload for the month.

So while I think its going to be a pain, Hopefully (and this is the big hope part) Local capping will allow those of us to pay less and get more out of what we are paying for

 

[Kalvaer]

The real issue here, Telkom is making abuse of this, by forcing the other side of the market to get unshaped, AT A PRICE...

They are basicly selling, for more, the product everyone had in the beginning.

Agreed Clipse. But think about it, I've got a 1 gig NukeCap from you, if at the end of the month you saw I had downloaded 50 gigs though your VPN.. How much money would you have lost? would you sell me a 1 gig account next month?

The shaping I think is complete bull. But when you have people abusing your system, what would you do? With nukecap, dont you open specific ports for people depending on what they want to do? is that not also a form of shaping? I love NukeCap, because it allows me to get around all these other idiots screwing with my money and my line

In an ideal world these people would just be told to bugger off. I"m afraid that is not going to happen, So if the rules given to us are broken, then I'm all for new rules to stop people screwing it over for the rest of us.

 

[LoneGunman]

I'm quite happy to be purchasing 30 (or 60 gigs) on a regular basis, in order to use p2p for my own ends - and have no interest in the widespread local sharing of what I consider rubbish data (ie: 'latest' movies/games/appz/music) - so if the total removal of local uncapped, and the elimination of this massive free use of local networks and bandwidth, means that I can go back to getting what I pay for (X gigs of exactly what I want on whatever protocol) then so be it.

If the removal of local uncapped DOESN'T lead to the unthrottling of p2p protocols, then something's wrong bigtime - as the removal of local uncapped, should free up a huge quantity of bandwidth for all protocols, for the paying customers..

Unless Telkom is seriously trying to kill the resellers, eliminate competition, and push people towards its own massively overpriced 'unshaped package' - which cuts off after a mere 3 or 4 gigs.

 

[Clipse]

Agreed Clipse. But think about it, I've got a 1 gig NukeCap from you, if at the end of the month you saw I had downloaded 50 gigs though your VPN.. How much money would you have lost? would you sell me a 1 gig account next month?

The shaping I think is complete bull. But when you have people abusing your system, what would you do? With nukecap, dont you open specific ports for people depending on what they want to do? is that not also a form of shaping? I love NukeCap, because it allows me to get around all these other idiots screwing with my money and my line

In an ideal world these people would just be told to bugger off. I"m afraid that is not going to happen, So if the rules given to us are broken, then I'm all for new rules to stop people screwing it over for the rest of us.

Kalvaer - Because I manage the bandwidth right, I allocated 1gig and once that is finish, ur account is locked. Feel free to push more than 1gig, it just wont happen when your unable to log on

All ports are open on nukecap vpn, You pay for 1gig and im not restricting you. If you want to browse for porn at 512k speeds on unshaped bandwidth, its ur choice. I dont Restrict.

edit: in the ideal world, Telkom would be forced to upgrade to accomidate(?) for the amount of traffic needed. If they want to make us believe, that we havnt got the bandwidth(bull**** and if we dont, then freaken get more, you rich fakkers) then why push for 512k,1mbit or whatever if they cant offer it.

Shouldnt you offer, what you can sustain.. If its 128k and you can sustain that, offer it. Upgrade to be able to sustain 256k users etc etc.

Its backwards with Telkom, everything that goes wrong, from pricing to service is flicked right back at the consumers, telling us... their ****ups = our fault.

Everyone dont seriously think in the US or UK, people dont do warez ? Its a common thing everywhere, deal with it, upgrade and make the best possible/available of the situation, you dont blame the customers for using what their paying for.. You make upgrades and upgrades and upgrades and upgrades etc etc.

 

[Kalvaer]

I think what i should say is more in the lines of... Its not the P2P that I hate.. its the Abusers of the system.

Look like what LGM said, he is prepared to pay.. as am I. Its the people out there who near the end of the month and beginning of the month ride the system to the point that it basically destroys everyones fun time in the whole country. Of course they make snide cocky coments when you mention it to them but it only goes to show the mentality of the people who do this, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if 90% of them are playing with daddy's hard earned money or they are rich snotty brats who think its their money.

I'm just upset because most of my problems stem from the abuse of the P2P uses. Again.. I know its not all of you. While I agree that none of the services should be throttled or shaped, the fact remains that there are quiet a few people out there who do not give a damn about anyone but themselves and are destroying it for us all... There is that saying that says What goes around comes around So if local capping and the likes will stop my service from being distrupted, and allow me to get what I am paying for, for a change.. then well its my turn to sit back and laugh at the idiots while they have to go beg daddy for more money to download because they promised 40 gigs of porn to guys at school and they paid up front and are now in deep trouble because they cant deliever anymore, instead of "stealing" My bandwidth each month

EDIT

Because I manage the bandwidth right, I allocated 1gig and once that is finish, ur account is locked. Feel free to push more than 1gig, it just wont happen when your unable to log on

Oh and hence why telkom will now capping locally as well. Telkom gave us all free local.. That was abused, so its being taken away... Its a pity because most of us that will be effected are not the cause of the problem!

 

[Clipse]

hehe kalvaer, i got the point u made with that local for free.. But to counter that, do u have any idea how much local bandwidth SA have... and how much is being used?

We HAVE and i dont know the exact numbers, but a couple of gigabit local bandwidth and yonks of fibre..

If they must, CAP international but there is no reason to cap local, thats just crippling things thats not crippled..

Btw.. if you think capping local will make any improvements to SAIX network ie. downtimes, slow times etc. your wrong, all the crippling has been going on because of routers failing, Fibre been vandalised and what not.. There has up to now, been no local congestion on the saix network.

 

[brucel]

Talk talk and talk about the same thing. The fact remains whoever pays for it can do whatever they want to with it. P2P pro or not.

 

[Ratwiz]

Hear Hear!!

Is downloading 30 gigs on P2P gonna slow someone else down more than downloading 30 gigs via ftp?

Hell no!

Why are there people defending Telkom here

Clipse knows his sheehut !

 

[Clipse]

I know exactly why people turn to try and understand telkoms pov, We are all sick and tired of fighting about high prices, ****ty services and old excuses. We all just want to start accept things, use the internet and forget about our situation. I know, thats really what I want, but I cant lie down.. AS THAT IS TELKOMS POWER.. Weaken the enemy(consumer) and you win the Battle. Look at the Banks getting away with murder, very few even question their fees these days. I fear Telkom getting in that comfort zone, then we will be doomed.

People here want to move on, even if the offer is ****ty like local capping. But on the flipside, these individuals want to see improvements which sadly I can gaurantee you(except if Telkom changes overnight in a consumer friendly corporation) that it will just put more money in Telkoms pocket and the same service will remain.

 

[Kalvaer]

Hear Hear!!

Is downloading 30 gigs on P2P gonna slow someone else down more than downloading 30 gigs via ftp?

Hell no!

Why are there people defending Telkom here

Clipse knows his sheehut !

Everyone is missing my point, And if you all read back you will see that I've have said it a number of times, Viceroy got in on another thread and LGM got it here..

I am not defending Telkom, But after reading posts by a lot of the P2P community on THIS forum, It made me understand why Telkom are doing what they are doing. I said in my first post I dont like the local capping, I dont like the Shaping (why else would I have a nukecap account) I dont like the small caps that are implemented by telkom.... BUT I hate the fact that there are a number of people on this forum who go about bragging about how they abused a faulty system and download 178 gigs on a 3 gig account with their P2P progs. If you paid for yout 30 Gigs.. THE HELL YES DOWNLOAD... But dont abuse the system, and i'm afraid 90% of the time it seems to be the P2P community that abuses this, not the FTP downloaders

We also all know that at the end of the month and at the beginning of the month ADSL in SA can be slower that a 56k modem.. Why... Am I wrong in sayings its all the idiots pushing for the last download before Telkom realise they have exceded their cap, and in the beginning of the month to get their downloads in quickly via P2P.. It might be routers and what not, its just funny that it happens every month at the same time??? Read the forums, Posts form people saying.. Hey.. I've only got 7 gigs on my account ,there are 3 days to month end what should I download, or Latests stats 178 Gigs so far....

I personally feel that these people are going against everything that MyADSL stands for, and Hell if I had anything to do about it. I would of banned them from the forums ages ago!

I will say it again since it seems to be missed so many times.. If you pay for 30 gigs DOWNLOAD it.. Dont abuse the system

 

[bb_matt]

I will say it again since it seems to be missed so many times.. If you pay for 30 gigs DOWNLOAD it.. Dont abuse the system

I think your vastly misunderstanding the reality here Kalvaer and getting mixed up with the iBurst users.

I haven't seen anyone getting 178gig on a 30gig account ? - that's insane !
The most they'll push is 36gig

And in the case of uncapped, they are paying for the service so that means they can download as much as they want - that is the nature of uncapped.

Anyway, perhaps go and think about your rather odd equations and realise that your mistaken in your belief about people "abusing" the system.

FYI, p2p is shaped, if it wasn't, then you could complain.

 

[Kalvaer]

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=22641&page=1&pp=15

Thats the post that has got me so uspet BB... That is abuse!

EDIT
And yes sorry if I've made it seem to be all P2P people, Maybe I'm just trying to find other ways to sort out a broken system.. Though when people post like that in the above thread.. HELL what are you all doing it for, Why did RPM start this site, what is the use of going to ICASA hearings, and having meetings with Telkom? How many other people are out there doing the same thing and not saying anything?

Also Maybe this can be explained to me then..

ADSL is shared bandwidth right? If I'm not mistaken the ratios of been mentioned at 1000:1? Now if 300 of those people are pushing P2P progs at full speed will the not be using their bandwidth to the max (shaped or not), There are many discussions here about how to get the most out of P2P.. Now is that fair on you and me? Am I getting my fair share? I am upset and maybe I've got it wrong, Downloading 36 gigs on a 30 gig account is not a problem to me, I would call that fair and within limits.. But not 178 gigs.. And again.. How many others are there doing the same?