Blu-Ray gains ground

[I am Penguin]

Who said anything about copying the blu-ray discs?

Plain assumption what you intent or want to do.

But, yes... I do rip all of my DVDs. Saves on wear and tear... and kiddy fingerprints all over the DVDs.

This is not to mention what happens when the DRM technology goes wrong and starts preventing even legitimate use....

You bemoan DRM because it would make your life difficult. Yet as can be seen on the MyGaming site that new unreleashed Xbox games titles is already pirated and made available on the internet. Then you question DRM and Sony motives. Easy solution for Sony would be to replace the damaged media on return and presentation of prove of purchase. Then why do I have that inckling feeling for you that would still not be enough? Hmmmm.

Who said anything about copying the blu-ray discs? Stop being such a knucklehead. I am talking about just playing the Disc. You cannot even play a Blu-Ray Disc on a computer with some older graphics cards or TVs. The DRM will not allow it. Get a clue of what you are talking about before making yourself look like a fool. the DRM is too restrictive even for normal everyday use. You have no idea who I am or what I do on my computer. How does copying my own discs make me a pirate??? Do you even know what you are talking about? do you know anything about this subject? or are you just babbling to amuse yourself?

I must have touched a sensitive point. Because You have to fall back to your normal standards to emphasize your point or to make readers believe you speak from a authoritive vantage point. So yeah carry on calling names and try to belittle others. Suits your style and argument well.

It is just Ludicrous to even imagine that new technologies must adapt backwards to all the shiite you own. Especially PC hardware. Of course to use the new technology you have to upgrade the PC or use special proprioty hardware. What did you expect? Why are you worried. You will have your DVD's for the next ten years still. I saw some 1.44 floppy's for sale in Pic and Pay just recently. So enjoy your format. Nobody prevents you from doing so.

PC hardware is already available that conforms to the Sony required standards to transfer their DRM media data. Thus, Yes you pay a license fee for that, that is the right of the company that owns the right of distributing the media. Live with it.

Fact remains as the OP topic said that the BluRay is gaining ground or picking up. It is a fact. Thing is Blu Ray compliments DVD. It can do all DVD can BUT DVD cannot do what the Blu Ray media can. So no reason to getall worked up because you will find it more troublesome to copy or pirate the media or cannot afford it. Whatever your gripe is, stay with DVD if you please and let others make an informed choice to use the new technology as they are becoming availalable, if they can afford it. Early adopters pay for the development so if you cannot afford it wait! The same argument is about any new HD content and media ATM. HDTV etc, There is also many limitations and expenses to adopt to the new technologies and expense is the biggest factor. Remember the first DVD players, writers, ect was also expensive at one time.

Right so the argument boils down to just DRM. The method SONY and others are trying to implement to reduce piracy. It's a Shame isint it!

 

[I am Penguin]

BD, its cool. Wether its winning or won the race etc, I am enjoying it now. When the new **** comes out, i will buy that and enjoy it then.

Technology changes all the time. What, am i supposed to not buy a computer today because i know in 1 years time they gonna have something better?

Should i not have installed a telkom adsl line a while back because i had a feeling neotel/wireless broadband was coming up with something? I would have still been using dial up dude.

Well summed up for those finding it so difficult to grasp. Fact is, or rather the difference there is no DRM involved.

 

[I am Penguin]

Um, you do realize that Sony was one of the major driving forces behind the push for HDCP back in 2003 already?? rds.

With good reason I would say! Funny that so many adopts the same technology. I* just wonder WHY!

 

[drukkie]

I'm no winzip wizard/compression guru, but surely a HD encoded divx movie has to have some quality loss some where, either video or audio, i cannot see it being the same quality as a full 1080P HD 7.1 uncompressed audio blu-ray disk

It's the same quality....trust me


http://www.last100.com/2009/01/12/divx-7-adds-support-for-blu-ray-rips/

 

[LazyLion]

Plain assumption what you intent to want to do.

you assumptioned me wrong. It is not what I intented to do, BUT it would be nice... and would also be perfectly within my rights to do so.

You bemoan DRM because it would make your life difficult.

I bemoan it because DRM is stupid. The only way to fight piracy is through price and distribution. DRM is a pointless waste of money. It adds to the cost, frustrates legitimate users and is a minor temporary hindrance to the real pirates.

Yet as can be seen on the MyGaming site that new unreleashed Xbox games titles is already pirated and made available on the internet. Then you question DRM and Sony motives. Easy solution for Sony would be to replace the damaged media on return and presentation of prove of purchase. Then why do I have that inckling feeling for you that would still not be enough? Hmmmm.

Actually the REAL solution would be for them to drop their prices and make their games widely available. I do question their motives, because I think they are greedy money grubbers. What other conclusion do you want me to come to when they charge so much for a game???

If I buy a Blu-ray disc and want to rip it to another format to play on my DivX player or cellphone... who gives a shirt? I paid for that content. I should be able to watch it where I want. It's only stuffed shirt Sony Fanboys who say "oh, Sony has a right to limit it to the distribution medium". bulldust.

I must have touched a sensitive point. Because You have to fall back to your normal standards to emphasize your point or to make readers believe you speak from a authoritive vantage point. So yeah carry on calling names and try to belittle others. Suits your style and argument well.

um, no I think you mean, you failed to make your point and resorted to calling me a pirate. Who started with the name calling... go back and look.

It is just Ludicrous to even imagine that new technologies must adapt backwards to all the shiite you own. Especially PC hardware. Of course to use the new technology you have to upgrade the PC or use special propriaty hardware. What did you expect? Why are you worried. You will have your DVD's for the next ten years still. I saw some 1.44 floppy's for sale in Pic and Pay just recently. So enjoy your format. Nobody prevents you from doing so.

Who said I'm not willing to upgrade??? Again you completely fail to grasp the issue. I would love the latest hardware and tech. Who does not? You are missing the boat here. My point is with people who tell me when and where I can use content I have purchased on whatever devices I own (which are already quite capable of playing the content... without all the DRM crap).

PC hardware is already available that conforms to the Sony required standards to transfer their DRM media data. Thus, Yes you pay a license fee for that, that is the right of the company that owns the right of distributing the media. Live with it.

No thanks. I have a choice. I don't have to live with it. I choose not to. Boo Hoo for you. But you are quite welcome to buy me a Blu-Ray player if you are so insistent I should live with it. I won't complain if you do.

Fact remains as the OP topic said that the BluRay is gaining ground or picking up.

Gaining ground is quite a different thing from "Won the war". My issue was not with the gaining ground statement. It is with the "won the war" statement. Please sort out the facts in your own confused mind.

It is a fact. Thing is Blu Ray compliments DVD. It can do all DVD can BUT DVD cannot do what the Blu Ray media can. So no reason to getall worked up because you will find it more troublesome to copy or pirate the media or cannot afford it. Whatever your gripe is, stay with DVD if you please and let others make an informed choice to use the new technology as they are becoming availalable, if they can afford it. Early adopters pay for the development so if you cannot afford it wait! The same argument is about any new HD content and media ATM. HDTV etc, There is also many limitations and expenses to adopt to the new technologies and expense is the biggest factor. Remember the first DVD players, writers, ect was also expensive at one time.

Um, that is exactly what I am doing... waiting. What is your point?

Right so the argument boils down to just DRM. The method SONY and others are trying to implement to reduce piracy. It's a Shame isint it!

Actually the argument was about the statement "won the war"... the DRM complaint was just something I threw in there which obviously touched a nerve in your little fanboy mind that made you want to justify your purchase of the medium.

 

[chubster]

So how much of that data space is actually used on the Blu-ray? As far as I understand it barely uses more than the first layer. It can go up to 3 layers. Sony won the size game this time round. The reverse happened when Toshiba won on more recording time vs Beta Max that could only do an hour but far superior quality. One would have thought that Toshiba would know this.

 

[LazyLion]

With good reason I would say! Funny that so many adopts the same technology. I* just wonder WHY!

Cos they are greedy? They believe that they can maximise profits by charging higher prices for the content. Then when people get upset at the high prices, and start pirating the stuff cos they can't afford it the producers stick all the DRM crap in there which only is a pain in the butt for legitimate users and does nothing to stop the piracy.

They could have avoided all the mess by simply dropping the prices to beat the pirates and increasing distribution to make sure the consumers can get their hands on it.

Which is more preferable... selling 1000 units at R300 or selling 10,000 units at R100? do the math. Basic Economics 101. But greedy people do not understand economics.

 

[chubster]

@ Garyvdh, do you agree that the only thing holding blu-ray back and stopping it from becoming mainstream right now is the price for BR players, HD telly's and BR disks.

What about your BR requiring internet to do updates and other DRM crap?

 

[chubster]

We could have had this technology in the 90s But greed and patent BS:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/103862/opening_the_door_for_new_storage_options.html

Only started in 2002.

 

[HBee]

BD winning is like Telkom winning best fixed line operator in SA - pointless. I'll probably only own a HD TV in about 3-4 years and mabey even longer if ICASA can't get it's act together on HD standards in SA. In the mean time HD xvid is doing a fine job on my 1920x1200 widescreen monitor.

 

[chubster]

Hilarious : HD dvd bluray funny comedy

 

[undesign]

Hilarious : HD dvd bluray funny comedy

LMAO very funny!

 

[arf9999]

Um, you do realize that Sony was one of the major driving forces behind the push for HDCP back in 2003 already?? If not, THE major driving force. Of course they couched it in all the terms of "allowing consumers freedom to use the media they purchased"... which is total BS... because that is exactly what it prevents. But the HDCP is not the only issue. The Blu-ray discs have several layers of invasive protection which only serve to make the technology more expensive and the end user more frustrated. We have not seen the end of these problems. The whole DHCP issue is going to be an ongoing headache for manufacturers and end-users. BD+ will be the same... you mark my words.

Ummm... HDCP is an Intel product.

And how does BD+ limit your connectivity? It stops you from copying, yes, but doesn't stop your outdated equipment from working...(...unless you make a crap product like Samsung, of course).

You're whining and bitching about DRM, but I fail to see how it has influenced the way that you would legally utilize the content.

I'm not a DRM fan personally, but most of your arguments from a "fair use" standpoint sound like those of a piracy apologist.

The facts at the moment are as follows:
1. Blu-ray delivers the best quality video it is curently possible to get commercially. Don't even start trying to compare a 35Mb/s AVC-HD Blu-ray to a 12Mb/s DiVX or Xvid file.
2. HDCP is a fact of life... It's not the Blu-ray manufacturers but the content suppliers that demand this. It is possible to strip it out if you really think it necessary.
3. BD+ is in place again because of the content companies. Will it be hacked? Yes. Will it be changed? Yes. Will it be hacked again? Yes... ad infinitum. It is in the content suppliers interest to control distribution of their IP... Does DRM work for this? Mostly yes...
4. Are the average people on the street even discussing this? No. Will they buy a Blu-ray player when the price looks attractive? Yes. Is this already happening? Yes. Blu-ray adoption is currently faster than DVD was.
5. Are the Movies expensive? **** Yes! Will prices drop? Yes, new licensing schemes, economies of scale tc. will drop prices in the medium term.
6. Will Blu-ray be superseded by digital downloads? Maybe, but probably not completely

 

[Rouxenator]

Please - stop arguing about the video quality of BluRay - we already have DVD and it is good enough.

The only use for BluyRay is data storage - and it sucks at that also.

 

[I am Penguin]

you assumptioned me wrong. It is not what I intented to do, BUT it would be nice... and would also be perfectly within my rights to do so.

No! it's not in your rights to copy and distribute others work, maybe I could believe "your" claims but in the whole theft and piracy is rife. Therefore go read your licence of all the media you purchase. As that clearly does not work at all, Sony and others sought a method to protect themselves and others and with good reason too.

I bemoan it because DRM is stupid. The only way to fight piracy is through price and distribution. DRM is a pointless waste of money. It adds to the cost, frustrates legitimate users and is a minor temporary hindrance to the real pirates.

DRM is to protect the DMR's of many musicians, software developers, Movie houses, actors, etc. It is clear that consumers cannot be trusted anymore thus new means of protection must be sought. Live with it.

Actually the REAL solution would be for them to drop their prices and make their games widely available. I do question their motives, because I think they are greedy money grubbers. What other conclusion do you want me to come to when they charge so much for a game???

I also thought so: I was wrong!

Basic economics( learned in school), they have to recover their costs, plus make a profit for their shareholders. Piracy is part and parcel of that cost and so is the R&D to prevent it.

If I buy a Blu-ray disc and want to rip it to another format to play on my DivX player or cellphone... who gives a shirt? I paid for that content. I should be able to watch it where I want. It's only stuffed shirt Sony Fanboys who say "oh, Sony has a right to limit it to the distribution medium". bulldust.

Sony or whoever gives a Shirt! They own the rights. You bought a license to use it in the media designed for it. So next you would claim radio stations are allowed to play the media without paying a fee because most listeners probably "bought" it anyway?.

So because you want to rip it in another format its your right? Likel hell it is, that is akin to reverse engineering of software and modifying the content to be used in a manner not licensed in the purchase agreement. How do you think piracy was born, because the industry trusted the consumers to their own peril. Maybe, just maybe, you can be trusted, can the millions of others be trusted? Obviously not. My take is even if they make the disks available for R1.00 to own there will still be more pirates than "owners".

um, no I think you mean, you failed to make your point and resorted to calling me a pirate. Who started with the name calling... go back and look.

I did not call you a pirate, Assumptions is the mother of most Fsuckups. I did hit a sensitive point it seems, relating to your comments in other threads like the PirateBay case thread, it seems here that the assumption you made is not to far from a mothersfsuckup.

Who said I'm not willing to upgrade??? Again you completely fail to grasp the issue. I would love the latest hardware and tech. Who does not? You are missing the boat here. My point is with people who tell me when and where I can use content I have purchased on whatever devices I own (which are already quite capable of playing the content... without all the DRM crap).

Even if you buy the Media with "content" it does not become Yours, You do not aquire the DMR's, You buy a lincense to use it privately, not to distribute it to your friends, via torrents, and /or play it publicly. So again go reqad the license. You can play the content on hardware designed for it. If you cannot play it on your PC do not buy it. You do not moan because you cannot play it in your car or wristwatch or bathtub for that matter. Simple really.

No thanks. I have a choice. I don't have to live with it. I choose not to. Boo Hoo for you. But you are quite welcome to buy me a Blu-Ray player if you are so insistent I should live with it. I won't complain if you do.

Sure, now you want one but cannot afford one!

Gaining ground is quite a different thing from "Won the war". My issue was not with the gaining ground statement. It is with the "won the war" statement. Please sort out the facts in your own confused mind.

They won the HD format war for now. Is that to complex to grasp? Sure there will be something else in the future, there is nothing now! and the reason why. PIRACY!

Um, that is exactly what I am doing... waiting. What is your point?

So just wait till something new comes out ONE DAY. In the meantime before I die I want to experience HD content. I do not want to steal it, just enjoy it.

Actually the argument was about the statement "won the war"... the DRM complaint was just something I threw in there which obviously touched a nerve in your little fanboy mind that made you want to justify your purchase of the medium.

I have nothing to justify, old argument of yours. But seems to me you have a few things bothering the soul.

and So say all piracy masters!

Do you see your name in the above or did you just assume or rather felt the pang of pain that I was refering to you?

Just as some reminder, who started the discuusion on DRM. Yeah "Just".

... but I'm a Blu-Ray skeptic.... and don't even get me started on all the DRM crap embedded into Blu-Ray!

 

[I am Penguin]

Cos they are greedy? They believe that they can maximise profits by charging higher prices for the content. .

Simple bussiness principle, maximise profits.
You do not like it Your choice DONT' buy it. You still want it, pay for it or steal it. Now theres the reason for DRM.

 

[LazyLion]

Ummm... HDCP is an Intel product.

Ummm, where did I say it wasn't? I said Sony was pushing for it. I didn't say Sony developed it.

I hate any form of DRM. I think it is a pointless waste of time. I full understand their reasons for wanting it, but I think they are going about it in completely the wrong way. I never said I wasn't going to use Blu-Ray because of it... I just said I don't like it. If somebody bought me a Blu-Ray player today I would buy some (cheaper) titles. I'm not anti the technology, just against the way Sony has gone about it.

I am still convinced the piracy war is an economic war, not a technology war. They will never win that one. That's all I was saying about DRM.

 

[LazyLion]

I have nothing to justify, old argument of yours. But seems to me you have a few things bothering the soul.

Do you see your name in the above or did you just assume or rather felt the pang of pain that I was refering to you?

Just as some reminder, who started the discuusion on DRM. Yeah "Just".

um, I have no idea who said what in that post. so I'll just respond to what I can see.

I have nothing bothering my soul and am quite happy with who I am and how I conduct myself.

I know my rights as a consumer and despite what the producers may want and write into the EULAs, they are still bound by the law of the land.

As far as the DRM argument goes... I actually said "DON'T GET ME STARTED...", you were the one who jumped on that bandwagon.

 

[I am Penguin]

um, I have no idea who said what in that post. so I'll just respond to what I can see.

I have nothing bothering my soul and am quite happy with who I am and how I conduct myself.

I know my rights as a consumer and despite what the producers may want and write into the EULAs, they are still bound by the law of the land.

As far as the DRM argument goes... I actually said "DON'T GET ME STARTED...", you were the one who jumped on that bandwagon.

So why quote it. Old flamebait trick, is it not? You responded because You thought I caught you out it seems. I was just commenting in general.

I repeat on the question of DRM: (In general)

Originally Posted by I am Penguin
and So say all piracy masters!

Sorry if you felt like one! Your mindset.

 

[LazyLion]

Simple bussiness principle, maximise profits.
You do not like it Your choice DONT' buy it. You still want it, pay for it or steal it. Now theres the reason for DRM.

um, no... Stupid business principle. Greed is destructive, stupid and pointless. making money is good business strategy.

And thanks for stating the obvious... but yes it is my choice... which I have exercised. I do not own any Blu-Ray titles, have never paid for any or stolen any. Never downloaded a blu-ray movie and don't plan to either. I have a few HD demo videos I got off the HD-WEB website. That is about it. Maybe one day I will own a Blu-Ray player, I'm not averse to that. But not for now. End of story. Sorry that disappoints you and that your day is spoiled cos you didn't talk me into rushing out and buying one like you.