Cape Party Q&A

[Cape-Independence]

Looks like there's already a lot of opposition in your thread on the DA forum. .

Are you looking at the same page I am?

 

[DJ...]

This is not a question. Admin please take note.

Precedent has been set...^^^

Ha, Ja some ppl are only here to ridicule and not ask questions. Well said!

Seems like you are one of them...

Are you hoping ppl will think you have a good sense of humour?

Are you hoping people will start to take you seriously now that you have "official" representation? *note* question has nothing to do with the topic.

Cape Independence talked about on the DA's online forum:

http://www.da.org.za/forum/

Again, not a question.

Are you looking at the same page I am?

Question has no place, considering the first post I quoted.

You really should leave the questions/answers to the official representative. You give your party a bad name with your abrasive attitude and poor grasp of the English language.

I would have no issues with secession if the purposes are based on quantifiable objectives and plausible reasoning. However this has not been provided in any way - particularly in the previous threads that Cape Independence has been involved in.

While I believe that the idea is economically implausible and altogether rather absurd, I am still curious as to the party's objectives, motives and plans. It's all good stating that you want to secede - it's another thing completely trying to convince a nation (even a province) that this is in its best interests. I don't believe that this is in anyone's best interests, regardless of the disdain I have for the current ruling party...

 

[Cape-Independence]

Precedent has been set...^^^



Seems like you are one of them...



Are you hoping people will start to take you seriously now that you have "official" representation? *note* question has nothing to do with the topic.



Again, not a question.



Question has no place, considering the first post I quoted.

You really should leave the questions/answers to the official representative. You give your party a bad name with your abrasive attitude and poor grasp of the English language.

I would have no issues with secession if the purposes are based on quantifiable objectives and plausible reasoning. However this has not been provided in any way - particularly in the previous threads that Cape Independence has been involved in.

While I believe that the idea is economically implausible and altogether rather absurd, I am still curious as to the party's objectives, motives and plans. It's all good stating that you want to secede - it's another thing completely trying to convince a nation (even a province) that this is in its best interests. I don't believe that this is in anyone's best interests, regardless of the disdain I have for the current ruling party...

DJ, get over yourself bru, if you've got a question to ask then ask it, but dont come after me in an attempt to prove somehow that due to my posts the Cape Party is misguided.

 

[DJ...]

Um, "bru" - I'm just suggesting that you practice what you preach...

 

[ToxicBunny]

I notice my question hasn't actually been effectively answered, since the answer provided is unacceptable and factually incorrect.

This is pretty much the most important question that the Cape Party needs to answer before any other issues can be settled, and if they can't be honest and upfront about this very basic question then they deserve to be ridiculed for the joke that they are.

 

[manesan]

DJ, get over yourself bru, if you've got a question to ask then ask it, but dont come after me in an attempt to prove somehow that due to my posts the Cape Party is misguided.

He's already asked some really good questions and is still waiting for a response.

 

[Albereth]

The DA's theory is that the ANC is going to achieve this artificial migration by intentionally degrading service delivery in the surrounding provinces thereby causing a mass migration of job seekers into the WC. That theory sounds absurd to me - why would the ANC starve people into the WC. Surely that would only result in increased support for the DA?

Two things - the ANC doesn't really care if a bunch of people die, and the ANC knows that a large number of voters are going to vote for them regardless.

 

[RetroBok]

DJ: You asked some very good questions, ones which I would also like some answers to, (In fact some of which I did not even think of myself ). Lets give the rep the benefit of the doubt here and assume that posting on this forum may not be one of his higher priorities (unfortunately, but such is life). As for the posters here who are pro-independence and may not have all the facts etc, (including myself) take what they say on board (you don't have to believe or agree with them obviously) but don't for a second think that these would be Cape Party policy.

Like all other political parties (especially in S.A.) you're going to have very low voter education. (Read masses blindly voting for ANC regardless), I'm sure even the DA has a large proportion of voters who support them without knowing the party's policies, manifesto or strategy inside out. This would be true of the Cape Party, especially so as it is a very young party, which I know in times to come will not be an excuse. They are new on the scene and in some respects will have to learn by trial and error. I'm asking you to give them a chance (while not waiting an unreasonably long time for your answers of course.)

Toxic: I know your biggest stumbling block to taking them seriously at the moment is the outlined borders etc. I've read (which of course no means makes it right/true) that you only have to have a defined area as one of the requirements to seek independence. There is no mention made of historical borders, just a defined territory. The Western Cape has defined borders, the parts of the Northern Cape that they want secession for have municipal borders as does the Eastern Cape. So my understanding is that they have defined borders. Obviously this will require more research (the source I got this from mentions the requirements generally and not in much detail).

I think I've posted this link before but just in case you missed it, or are interested:http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4217

Looking forward to the answers from the Cape Party...

 

[ToxicBunny]

Retrobok : I get where you're coming from, but my point of view is they basically want to get the integration of the Cape Colony into the then Union of South Africa declared unlawful, which then clearly defines the land area that they will need to seek independence for, which is the entirety of the ex-Cape Province, not a cherry picked selection of that land area where the Cape Party thinks they may stand some slim chance of success.

 

[RetroBok]

Retrobok : I get where you're coming from, but my point of view is they basically want to get the integration of the Cape Colony into the then Union of South Africa declared unlawful, which then clearly defines the land area that they will need to seek independence for, which is the entirety of the ex-Cape Province, not a cherry picked selection of that land area where the Cape Party thinks they may stand some slim chance of success.

If a legal precedent is set, and they manage to prove that the Cape Colony's integration into the Union was unlawful, then all that land is legible for seccesion, agreed. But that does not mean they have to take it all and could then use it as a bargaining tool in negotiations during transition.

I equate it as follows. If the ANC is allowed to ship voters in from wherever to ensure the W.C. goes back into ANC control then surely it stands to reason that the Cape Party may pick and choose which areas they want under seccesion (as long as those areas fall under the old Cape Colony), they're doing it legally and not manipulating democracy?

Anyhoo, once I've done a bit more "research" I'll find out whether they need historic territory or just a defined territory.

 

[ToxicBunny]

No, unfortunately they don't get to decide which bits they take... The entire Cape Colony becomes independent again and the Cape Party then has to convince that entire population to stay independent which just isn't going to happen.

The ANC is not allowed to ship voters in from wherever to try win the WC back.. its unlawful to do so.

Having the historic territory makes the "quest" easier, but a defined territory will make it considerably more difficult if you ask, if not impossible.

 

[CapeNat]

Ok, why not? Why cant they decide what slice they want, answer that. If the people of the Cape vote for it, then dont you think they would wanna hold onto it? Unlawful to ship voters, yes youre right but remember this is Africa. You think its impossibe, we believe it can be done.

 

[ToxicBunny]

The vote would have to be promulgated under the Constitution of South Africa, and not some intentionally misrepresented PORTION of the constitution...

Who cares where this is... Its unlawful, FULL STOP. If you stoop to the same tactics, you're no better than the ANC and deserve an equal amount of derision.

 

[CapeNat]

The vote would have to be promulgated under the Constitution of South Africa, and not some intentionally misrepresented PORTION of the constitution...

Who cares where this is... Its unlawful, FULL STOP. If you stoop to the same tactics, you're no better than the ANC and deserve an equal amount of derision.

Toxic: Unlawful doesnt mean unrealistic. Remember what continent youre on. Nowhere else in the 'civilised' world would anyone believe that a delinquent like Zuma could become president but he did. So no FULL STOP.

 

[RetroBok]

No, unfortunately they don't get to decide which bits they take... The entire Cape Colony becomes independent again and the Cape Party then has to convince that entire population to stay independent which just isn't going to happen.

The ANC is not allowed to ship voters in from wherever to try win the WC back.. its unlawful to do so.
Having the historic territory makes the "quest" easier, but a defined territory will make it considerably more difficult if you ask, if not impossible.

It may be unlawful for them to do so, however some how I don't think it would stop them from doing so. How would you be able to prove they have done this? Conversely how would anyone be able to prove they haven't? Very tricky situation.

They won't need to convince the entire population to stay independent, only a majority. After all it is a democracy. The hard part will be getting that majority on board, agreed. However very hard work and campaigning would be a good way to start. If the Cape Party can do what no other party has done, and campaign with the mindset that every day is election day and not just every 5 years they will be well on their way to achieving independence. A very huge task ahead indeed.

Go back to the pre 1994 referendums, the political parties didn't need to convince the entire country to change, only a majority.

 

[CapeNat]

It may be unlawful for them to do so, however some how I don't think it would stop them from doing so. How would you be able to prove they have done this? Conversely how would anyone be able to prove they haven't? Very tricky situation.

They won't need to convince the entire population to stay independent, only a majority. After all it is a democracy. The hard part will be getting that majority on board, agreed. However very hard work and campaigning would be a good way to start. If the Cape Party can do what no other party has done, and campaign with the mindset that every day is election day and not just every 5 years they will be well on their way to achieving independence. A very huge task ahead indeed.

Go back to the pre 1994 referendums, the political parties didn't need to convince the entire country to change, only a majority.

Well said. Yes it is very possible and believe me the campaigning next time around is going to be ALOT bigger. But they did what they planned to and that was to get the message out there. They did well considering the funding and age of the Party. "Die Kaap vir die Kaaplander" slogan worked did its job well and got people talking alot more than other parties slogans.

 

[R13...]

Two things - the ANC doesn't really care if a bunch of people die, and the ANC knows that a large number of voters are going to vote for them regardless.

Their campaign at these elections in response to the threat of COPE has showed that they are not complacent re: elections. As an entity I do think the ANC cares what happens to people. It is the individuals who are only looking to line their pockets that couldn't give a rats behind what happens to the people.

They are a political party so they will always look out for #1 like all the other parties in the country.

 

[CapeNat]

Their campaign at these elections in response to the threat of COPE has showed that they are not complacent re: elections. As an entity I do think the ANC cares what happens to people. It is the individuals who are only looking to line their pockets that couldn't give a rats behind what happens to the people.

They are a political party so they will always look out for #1 like all the other parties in the country.

You dont think politians line their pockets aswell? Watch the news or read a few more newspapers. Exactly how long have you been in SA? To your second qoute: You cant be serious?

 

[R13...]

You dont think politians line their pockets aswell? Watch the news or read a few more newspapers. Exactly how long have you been in SA? To your second qoute: You cant be serious?

The individuals I refer to are politicians as the ANC is made up of politicians. Thought that'd be obvious.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Retrobok : Pre 1994 elections they didn't need to convince a majority... but a majority of the minority, a MUCH easier task.

As for the Cape Party convincing a majority, you're talking in excess of 10m people.... Thats just not going to happen when more than 10m of those people vote for the ANC.