Carnivore diet

[Surv0]

Been a banter for a long time, not so much recently, but keep going back to it to sort out my body.

Ive read and listened to multiple people who are on the carnivore diet and it sounds really interesting and every single one of them had positive results.

 

[Emjay]

How is this different from keto? It's the exact same concept, but all meat based.

But, some quick thoughts:

1. You will need to supplement with Magnesium.
2. You will have to eat liver, often.
3. You will still need to eat at a caloric deficit to lose weight.
4. Food will become a lot more expensive, as it is recommended that you eat the better cuts of meat. As for fish, salmon is stupidly expensive, and seen more as a rare treat in my household.
5. Zero alcohol.
6. Prepare for stomach issues due to zero fibre.
7. Repetitive diet.

 

[Ancalagon]

1. You will need to supplement with Magnesium.
2. You will have to eat liver, often.
3. You will still need to eat at a caloric deficit to lose weight.
4. Food will become a lot more expensive, as it is recommended that you eat the better cuts of meat. As for fish, salmon is stupidly expensive, and seen more as a rare treat in my household.
5. Zero alcohol.
6. Prepare for stomach issues due to zero fibre.
7. Repetitive diet.

Watch the video, they address a lot of these. Specifically:

1. Apparently you need more magnesium if you eat glucose. The lower your glucose intake, the lower your magnesium requirement.
2. Sure.
3. You still believe it is that simple?
4. Yes, it will be expensive.
5. I don't consume much alcohol anyway.
6. Actually they say you won't experience any - that the fibre hypothesis is unfounded. Again, watch the video.
7. I love meat. I could happily eat different types of meat every day. But then I don't get tired of repetitive diets.

 

[Polymathic]

How is this different from keto? It's the exact same concept, but all meat based.

But, some quick thoughts:

1. You will need to supplement with Magnesium.
2. You will have to eat liver, often.
3. You will still need to eat at a caloric deficit to lose weight.
4. Food will become a lot more expensive, as it is recommended that you eat the better cuts of meat. As for fish, salmon is stupidly expensive, and seen more as a rare treat in my household.
5. Zero alcohol.
6. Prepare for stomach issues due to zero fibre.
7. Repetitive diet.

A lot of people and populations have no stomach issues with a 100% meat diet but science as of now has absolutely no idea why.

 

[Emjay]

3. You still believe it is that simple?

I still do - and I am firm on this. It will be easier to control your appetite as you will feel less hungry due to insulin/leptin/ghrelin/etc, but you still have to eat at a deficit. I am going to repost my summary of our metabolic process, which is why I will never change my mind on this. But, if you believe that, eat as much as you want.

So, our metabolism is made of anabolic and catabolic reactions (which reactions are regulated by hormones), as follows:

• Fat (glycerol, fatty acids and adipose tissue), protein (amino acids) and carbs (glucose) can be used for energy.
• Glucose is converted into pyruvate and then to acetyl CoA.
• Glycerol will be converted to pyruvate (which can interestingly be converted into glucose), and then into acetyl CoA. Fatty acids are converted directly into acetyl CoA (and cannot be converted into glucose).
• Proteins are broken down into amino acids, and then are converted into pyruvate or acetyl CoA, depending on what kind of amino acid it is. Which means some amino acids can be converted to glucose those that are converted to pyruvate.
• Acetyl CoA is then used to produce energy, via the citric acid (or krebs) cycle. Acetyl CoA then enters the krebs cycle, where the acetyl group is oxidized to carbon dioxide and water, and the energy released captured in the form of ATP.
• Ketosis is the process in which adipose (fat tissue or triglycerides) tissue is converted to acetoacetate and beta-hydroxybutyrate (collectivly called ketones) in the liver which then become acetyl CoA, and then is made into ATP via the krebs cycle.

The process is reversible i.e. acetyl CoA is converted into adipose tissue when there is not enough of a demand for ATP.

 

[Ancalagon]

I still do - and I am firm on this. It will be easier to control your appetite as you will feel less hungry due to insulin/leptin/ghrelin/etc, but you still have to eat at a deficit. I am going to repost my summary of our metabolic process, which is why I will never change my mind on this. But, if you believe that, eat as much as you want.

So why does injecting insulin make you gain weight, even when calorie intake and activity are kept the same?

Why does cortisone list weight gain as a common side effect? Why does cortisone make you gain fat?

 

[RanzB]

W
3. You still believe it is that simple?

I'm with Emjay. There are obviously different factors at play but the baseline is that most people need to eat at a calorie deficit to lose weight.

 

[rietrot]

This is the diet Jordan Peterson and his daughter are on

On a recent Joe Rogan podcast he talks to JP's daughter about this.

 

[f2wohf]

So why does injecting insulin make you gain weight, even when calorie intake and activity are kept the same?

Why does cortisone list weight gain as a common side effect? Why does cortisone make you gain fat?

It’s mostly water retention for cortisone.

I’ve been there and lost more than 12kg in 3 weeks after stopping, no way I would have lost that in fat.

 

[Emjay]

So why does injecting insulin make you gain weight, even when calorie intake and activity are kept the same?

Why does cortisone list weight gain as a common side effect? Why does cortisone make you gain fat?

Lets go back to basics. Insulin helps manage sugar by assisting cells in absorbing glucose. When a user starts insulin therapy and begin getting blood sugar under control, glucose is absorbed and stored. So, the answer is as simple as the body's metabolic process as I posted above is now working correctly, wouldn't you say? If you go to a doctor and ask the doctor on how to help manage insulin related weight gain, they will recommend monitoring caloric intake.

Your cortisone question is so broad, you are not actually asking me a question. Cortisol induces breakdown of fat into usable energy. However, cortisol seems to not break down abdominal fat, but rather other sources of fat. Higher levels of cortisol leads to increase of ghrelin levels which therefore leads to increased eating (and fluid retention).

The solution? Burn off other areas of fat, so the body will eventually reduce the abdominal fat stores. How do you do that? Reduced caloric intake, or increased physical activity.

A lot of people and populations have no stomach issues with a 100% meat diet but science as of now has absolutely no idea why.

I think the biodiversity of the gut bacteria has something to do with this. We are also stumped as to why lactose intolerance onset happens in later years, and sometimes suddenly. I think there is a lot of discovery to happen here.

 

[rietrot]

Lets go back to basics. Insulin helps manage sugar by assisting cells in absorbing glucose. When a user starts insulin therapy and begin getting blood sugar under control, glucose is absorbed and stored. So, the answer is as simple as the body's metabolic process as I posted above is now working correctly, wouldn't you say? If you go to a doctor and ask the doctor on how to help manage insulin related weight gain, they will recommend monitoring caloric intake.

Your cortisone question is so broad, you are not actually asking me a question. Cortisol induces breakdown of fat into usable energy. However, cortisol seems to not break down abdominal fat, but rather other sources of fat. Higher levels of cortisol leads to increase of ghrelin levels which therefore leads to increased eating (and fluid retention).

The solution? Burn off other areas of fat, so the body will eventually reduce the abdominal fat stores. How do you do that? Reduced caloric intake, or increased physical activity.



I think the biodiversity of the gut bacteria has something to do with this. We are also stumped as to why lactose intolerance onset happens in later years, and sometimes suddenly. I think there is a lot of discovery to happen here.

One very obvious thing the calories in calories out people never address. How much calories that you eat don't your body store as fat or use. You know there's an exit, right?

 

[KleinBoontjie]

Been following this diet a while. Haven't practice the diet, don't think I will. I'm happy with Banting.

But I see a lot of people fixating on fiber. Where, according to Dr. Shawn Baker (ex Dr), fiber is over rated if you're not on a high carb diet:

 

[RanzB]

One very obvious thing the calories in calories out people never address. How much calories that you eat don't your body store as fat or use. You know there's an exit, right?

It's calculated into your TDEE I assume.

Where, according to Dr. Shawn Baker (ex Dr), fiber is over rated if you're not on a high carb diet:

Still not sure about that dude. Did they ever figure out why his bloodwork results were so bad?

 

[rietrot]

It's calculated into your TDEE I assume.



Still not sure about that dude. Did they ever figure out why his bloodwork results were so bad?

Apparently had a heavy gym session the day before, but no other information or further test were done as far as I know.

 

[Dretastic06]

I’ve been on it. Can't type more details since my gout is really bad.

lol joints all stiff

 

[KleinBoontjie]

In his(Shawn Baker) session with Joe Rogan, he mentioned a group on Facebook "Zeroing in on health". I found quite a few interesting stories on there.

 

[Emjay]

One very obvious thing the calories in calories out people never address. How much calories that you eat don't your body store as fat or use. You know there's an exit, right?

What are you trying to say, exactly?

That your body somehow takes food and does not extract nutrients from it, and passes it through your system? Yeah, that happens when you have diarrhea and is not part of the metabolic cycle I explained above.

 

[Ancalagon]

It’s mostly water retention for cortisone.

I’ve been there and lost more than 12kg in 3 weeks after stopping, no way I would have lost that in fat.

No, it isn't water retention. Read this.

Lets go back to basics. Insulin helps manage sugar by assisting cells in absorbing glucose. When a user starts insulin therapy and begin getting blood sugar under control, glucose is absorbed and stored. So, the answer is as simple as the body's metabolic process as I posted above is now working correctly, wouldn't you say? If you go to a doctor and ask the doctor on how to help manage insulin related weight gain, they will recommend monitoring caloric intake.

Your cortisone question is so broad, you are not actually asking me a question. Cortisol induces breakdown of fat into usable energy. However, cortisol seems to not break down abdominal fat, but rather other sources of fat. Higher levels of cortisol leads to increase of ghrelin levels which therefore leads to increased eating (and fluid retention).

The solution? Burn off other areas of fat, so the body will eventually reduce the abdominal fat stores. How do you do that? Reduced caloric intake, or increased physical activity.

Here are a couple of interesting articles by Dr Jason Fung on the subject.

Link 1
Link 2

Link 2 has an interesting study. 14 diabetics gained weight as their insulin was increased - despite eating 300 calories less!

That should be impossible according to you. Their diets were medically supervised. They reduced their calorie consumption by 300 calories from the beginning to the end of the study, but their weight continued to climb! According to you, just eating less should fix the problem. But it doesn't!

And there was another study, which I will just quote the comment on:

In this study, 708 diabetics on oral medications got insulin added to their treatment. What happened to weight? It went up. That is really no surprise – every clinician already knows that insulin makes you gain weight.

Insulin makes you gain weight independent of how much you eat. Why? Read the articles and find out why.

As for cortisone, again I am going to quote Dr Jason Fung. Have a read.

Does excess cortisol, from long-term psychological stress lead to weight gain? Certainly anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that stress leads to obesity. But there are certain disease states characterized by excessive cortisol production. This is called Cushing’s disease or Cushing’s syndrome. Harvey Cushing originally described a 23-year-old woman in 1912 that suffered from weight gain, excessive hair growth and loss of menstruation. High blood sugars and overt diabetes is present in up to 1/3 of cases. Patients taking long term prednisone often appear similar to these patients and develop what is termed Cushinoid syndrome. There is a particular redistribution of the fat from the limbs to the trunk and face called truncal obesity. The term ‘moon face’ is used to describe the peculiar gain of weight in the face. A ‘buffalo hump’ describes the deposition of fat in the back.

But the hallmark of this disease is weight gain. In case series, 97% of patients show a central weight gain, and 94% show increased body weight. Insulin resistance is another key characteristic of Cushing’s syndrome. Both cortisol and prednisone cause weight gain. Many patients complain that they gain weight no matter how little they eat and no matter how much they exercise. Any disease that results in excess cortisol secretion results in weight gain. Cortisol causes weight gain.

The convenient excuse, which I know you will use, is that cortisol/cortisone raise stress and make you eat more. Which is not supported by the evidence, but I know you will state it anyway. What is more interesting is the insulin injection study - that despite reducing calories, they still gained weight.

 

[Emjay]

snip

Seriously. You are arguing medical anomalies that occur in people with hormonal problems. I don't have the time to read through those studies. If there were some other way to lose weight, we would see it by now. Instead, we keep having these questionable diets pop up that mimic each other, when millions and millions of medical professionals state that we should be eating healthy balanced diets. Yet, when I point at mountains of evidence to show that people successfully lose weight by going into a caloric deficit, you want to argue these oddities.

Like I have said a a few times before: the general public that wants to lose weight do not suffer from these issues. Don't believe you need to be in a caloric deficit? But all means go ahead and eat whatever you want. It's not my body or health.

 

[rietrot]

Seriously. You are arguing medical anomalies that occur in people with hormonal problems. I don't have the time to read through those studies. If there were some other way to lose weight, we would see it by now. Instead, we keep having these questionable diets pop up that mimic each other, when millions and millions of medical professionals state that we should be eating healthy balanced diets. Yet, when I point at mountains of evidence to show that people successfully lose weight by going into a caloric deficit, you want to argue these oddities.

Like I have said a a few times before: the general public that wants to lose weight do not suffer from these issues. Don't believe you need to be in a caloric deficit? But all means go ahead and eat whatever you want. It's not my body or health.

There's no point if you just pretend to be a know-it-all without reading what the other person says.