Crystal Web ADSL performance feedback thread Part 3...

[crackersa]

Growth is considerable and being maintained. Network has quadrupled in the last few months for example. Our churn rate is around 1.6% so retention is very good for this industry on month to month agreements. Primary reason for leaving us is moving to fibre/wireless or for budgetary reasons moving to a "lesser" ISP...

That's impressive. Gives you some bragging rights

 

[cybershark]

Unstated, but about half the industry norm and lower on average. Network operates uncontended for the most part and we're only seeing some occasional contention in consumer peak hours when people are firing up streaming and downloads. Since the Netflix DNS crackdown we've seen a massive spike in NNTP and P2P downloads from 6pm onwards rather than the suggested midnight window. However it's unlikely many people have felt this to any large extent as we intelligently manage the network when this happens so as to avoid contention being experienced from the end user perspective, as much as possible. Even then, it's only download protocols that dynamically scale up and down in speeds and will burst full when there is spare network capacity.

One of the ironic twists in having operated the network unshaped and uncontended for about 7 consecutive months is that people now believe that this is the expectation, and it's important to remember that when the network occasionally contends, home uncapped for example will shape downloads according to priority, with basic accounts shaping first, and then only moving to premium shaping if needed thereafter. Furthermore there is intelligent management in place that determines which accounts to shape and which not to, in order to mitigate against feeling the impacts as much as possible. Even further, the shaper will target the heaviest users first so as to preserve capacity for those who don't really deserve any network management being applied...

Some good information, thanks.

 

[Icemanbrfc]

Nope, I saw it.

We don't discuss behind the scenes pricing talks in public and we only address publicly when we're ready to announce/launch/change pricing. Hope you can understand. Also remember that until our own input costs come down, we have no cost-savings to pass on, so any cost reductions would just be an erosion of already really tiny margins. So best thing to do is to stay tuned to see what moves Telkom choose to make on IPC pricing over the next few months...

100% DJ, completely understand. Will keep my eyes and ears open lol if anything changes !

 

[MalcolmF]

Help please
Tracing route to www.google.co.za [216.58.212.35]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 * 149 ms 151 ms 196.38.75.82
4 * 405 ms 311 ms 196.38.75.81
5 385 ms 334 ms 363 ms 196.35.115.136
6 360 ms 339 ms 310 ms mi-za-cpt-p7-te0-0-0-0.ip.isnet.net [168.209.6.12]
7 369 ms 372 ms 331 ms 168.209.100.101
8 347 ms * * 196.26.0.130
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * 416 ms 420 ms 209.85.253.10
12 * 345 ms 251 ms 216.239.57.246
13 * 340 ms 278 ms 216.239.57.245
14 386 ms 476 ms 517 ms 209.85.253.115
15 477 ms 531 ms 496 ms 209.85.142.103
16 314 ms 389 ms 487 ms sof02s18-in-f3.1e100.net [216.58.212.35]

 

[DJ...]

Put together a line transfer info pack and made it mostly ISP neutral for everyone else to use:

TELKOM LINE TRANSFERS

OK, let's clarify line transfers a bit.

Downtime:

There is no expected downtime if your ISP does its job right. So far Telkom ISP are the only ISP to have had delays and made the process more complicated than it needs to be, as they have implemented a paper-based cancellation form, and these jus take them forever to process. It's not difficult necessarily. It just takes longer to get done, but once in their queue, it should release into the holding pool, um, soon. I'm not sure they have a set date and time as it appears very random at the moment. The line will only go down if it remains in the holding pool for more than 2 weeks. If your line remains in the holding pool for 4 weeks, it will be cancelled*. Your line may sync at 2Mbps while in the holding pool - this is normal. If it is grabbed quickly by the new ISP (<1 day) this shouldn't happen. Your ISP should resync it back up, but I cannot talk for other ISPs and their processes.

ISP to ISP transfer is dirt simple and fast, except at the moment when Telkom Internet have been involved. It is rather slow with them. It can take up to a week in our experience just for them to load the paperwork correctly. Um, TI, it's 1 damn paper form - get off your arses and speed it up, and get tat form digitised.

*We've so far have 2 customers whose line went, well, missing. Literally - but it's 2 out of thousands, so the risk is far less than it was before. Both lines were recovered and no lines were cancelled.

Notications

You should receive a notification from your ISP on the day that the line is successfully moved into the holding pool by your previous ISP.
What you do from here is dependent on how your ISP processes on their end, but at Crystal Web we have a button that you click to manually inform us that the line is in the holding pool (this allows for early migrations which happen)
Your ISP then processes the move from holding pool into the ISP wholesaler's billing, andf resync takes place from 2Mbps where applicable back to normal provisioning speed or speed the line was migrated at (i.e you can upgrade on actual order with Crystal Web)

Moving back to the holding pool is required in order to switch ISPs - it is recommended to move your line to your data provider. More on that later*
Follow your ISP's instructions to cancel your line services with them and ensure that it is submitted with sufficient days to spare for cancellation notices. Crystal Web and Afrihost offer same-month cancellations, while other ISPs differ between 30 days from notice date (VOX), or calendar month's notice (Webafrica).
Once in the holding pool, follow the normal process for a migrate as in para 1 above


Should I leave my line with Telkom vs my ISP?

No. You should certainly move your line management and control to your ISP to allow for better insight, support, and flexibility from a single provider.
Telkom has split its divisions and businesses into their own units and legl entities. Telkom Retail ISP now acts as the sole Telkom ISP over Openserve but is completely separate (Previously Telkom Wholesale). Telkom Retail ISP is absolutely no different to all other ISPs when it comes to managing lines, with all faults, orders, regrades, provisioning and escalations happening on Openserve no matter who the ISP is.
This means that Telkom Retail ISP offers no benefit over other ISPs in the line management space like it did before, and all ISPs including Telkom ISP, operate with Openserve for processing, purchasing, changes and cancellations
Your ISP may be able to offer you a discount on your bundled line and data account. Please talk to your ISP to discuss pricing options or visit your ISP's website to look for bundles. Please note that at Crystal Web we allow you to add a line to any data package order, and therefore we allow for all bundling options in any configuration, at a flat monthly rental fee, paid by your ISP to Openserve.
Telkom lines are available in the following best effort download speed settings: 1Mbps, 2Mbps, 4Mbps, 8Mbps, 10Mbps, 20Mbs(ADSL2+/VDSL), 40Mbps (VDSL Only), 100Mbps (Fibre FTTH Only)**

**Telkom offers data lines on a best effort sync basis, meaning your line will auto-sync/provision at a speed nearest to the advertised product purchased, depending on various factors including distance from your house to the Telkom exchange that your line connects to (shorter distance is better), and the quality of the copper line itself that connects to that exchange (expressed as a signal to noise ratio [SNR] which is also impacted by distance to the exchange, because the longer the line, the more noise will be present for the same signal amount). Fibre lines are more resilient to distance and noise issues and are typically not subjected to such interference.
Upgrades are entirely dependent on line quality, port availability at the exchange, and the infrastructure deployed to your exchange. Not all sites support the same speeds. To identify your Telkom technology availability, as well as maximum available speeds, please consult the Telkom Coverage Map - http://www.telkom.co.za/coverage/ we suggest checking monthly to monitor for upgrades to your area

 

[DJ...]

Help please
Tracing route to www.google.co.za [216.58.212.35]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 * 149 ms 151 ms 196.38.75.82
4 * 405 ms 311 ms 196.38.75.81
5 385 ms 334 ms 363 ms 196.35.115.136
6 360 ms 339 ms 310 ms mi-za-cpt-p7-te0-0-0-0.ip.isnet.net [168.209.6.12]
7 369 ms 372 ms 331 ms 168.209.100.101
8 347 ms * * 196.26.0.130
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * 416 ms 420 ms 209.85.253.10
12 * 345 ms 251 ms 216.239.57.246
13 * 340 ms 278 ms 216.239.57.245
14 386 ms 476 ms 517 ms 209.85.253.115
15 477 ms 531 ms 496 ms 209.85.142.103
16 314 ms 389 ms 487 ms sof02s18-in-f3.1e100.net [216.58.212.35]

Hi Malcolm,

Concerned the latency starts towards the beginning there.

We don't use tracert data in our business as it is wholly insufficient for our diagnostics purposes. Can you send me some WinMTR data for 1 min by PM to our website.

FYI guys, tests to Google don't give us much info and we'll nearly always ask for alternate test data to our website by default...

 

[Geoff.D]

..........

TELKOM LINE TRANSFERS

OK, let's clarify line transfers a bit.


Should I leave my line with Telkom vs my ISP?

No. You should certainly move your line management and control to your ISP to allow for better insight, support, and flexibility from a single provider.
.......................

As above, you suggest that this option is the best. But I trust you will acknowledge that it is not the only way to do things ----

I am with Telkom at the moment. My ADSL line is totally separate from my ISP services (also Telkom). Both for historical reasons ..... and my circumstances are rather unique anyway.

At one stage my line was used by 3 different people, all with their own ISPs.

I happen to like the idea of keeping the line (in old terms an ASP service), separate from ISP services.
Granted, this means I have to take on the responsibility of managing that service myself, and ensuring that the line is capable of handling the ISP services.

I am not totally convinced that your option is better or worse than what I have ....


PS: I sent you PMs last night .... Hve you had a look at them ?

 

[Icemanbrfc]

unless im blind, but i see uncapped bundles, but cant find capped bundles ie data plus line

 

[Paul Hjul]

agreed, and I think one of the points that is frequently needing to be made is maximizing consumer choice and options. What is being pointed out though is that the circuit (and in reality the product isn't really a circuit but rather an overlay service that is circuit orientated) used to be something that there were specific disadvantages to the consumer and advantages to the ISP to be held by the ISP whereas now - and certainly for our customers - the routine has shifted quite significantly.

It is much the same scenario when discussing things like term bound and calendar notice contracts - there is massive advantages to the consumer in a prepaid renewing monthly contractual relationship and so we've really taken that this should be the default position but there are advantages to a provider in fixed term contracts and if these benefits can be translated into offering a good deal for the consumer an opportunity for maximizing consumer choice and competition in the market is certainly there.

 

[DJ...]

unless im blind, but i see uncapped bundles, but cant find capped bundles ie data plus line

You can add a line at the discounted rate when you sign up for any account...

 

[biometrics]

agreed, and I think one of the points that is frequently needing to be made is maximizing consumer choice and options. What is being pointed out though is that the circuit (and in reality the product isn't really a circuit but rather an overlay service that is circuit orientated) used to be something that there were specific disadvantages to the consumer and advantages to the ISP to be held by the ISP whereas now - and certainly for our customers - the routine has shifted quite significantly.

It is much the same scenario when discussing things like term bound and calendar notice contracts - there is massive advantages to the consumer in a prepaid renewing monthly contractual relationship and so we've really taken that this should be the default position but there are advantages to a provider in fixed term contracts and if these benefits can be translated into offering a good deal for the consumer an opportunity for maximizing consumer choice and competition in the market is certainly there.

Even posting shorter posts still don't make sense Paul. You speak alien.

 

[Icemanbrfc]

You can add a line at the discounted rate when you sign up for any account...

Aaah u see Thanks

 

[DJ...]

Aaah u see Thanks

You never got that far in the sign up page before?

 

[Icemanbrfc]

You never got that far in the sign up page before?

No lol, my line is still with Telkom. Until you posted about Line migration, I was always of the opinion that it's best to just keep your line with Telkom.

Btw, how would switching isp's work if you had to migrate the line to say CW and wanted another isp for data only as a back up? If that makes sense

 

[Ho3n3r]

Put together a line transfer info pack and made it mostly ISP neutral for everyone else to use:

TELKOM LINE TRANSFERS

OK, let's clarify line transfers a bit.

Downtime:

There is no expected downtime if your ISP does its job right. So far Telkom ISP are the only ISP to have had delays and made the process more complicated than it needs to be, as they have implemented a paper-based cancellation form, and these jus take them forever to process. It's not difficult necessarily. It just takes longer to get done, but once in their queue, it should release into the holding pool, um, soon. I'm not sure they have a set date and time as it appears very random at the moment. The line will only go down if it remains in the holding pool for more than 2 weeks. If your line remains in the holding pool for 4 weeks, it will be cancelled*. Your line may sync at 2Mbps while in the holding pool - this is normal. If it is grabbed quickly by the new ISP (<1 day) this shouldn't happen. Your ISP should resync it back up, but I cannot talk for other ISPs and their processes.

ISP to ISP transfer is dirt simple and fast, except at the moment when Telkom Internet have been involved. It is rather slow with them. It can take up to a week in our experience just for them to load the paperwork correctly. Um, TI, it's 1 damn paper form - get off your arses and speed it up, and get tat form digitised.

*We've so far have 2 customers whose line went, well, missing. Literally - but it's 2 out of thousands, so the risk is far less than it was before. Both lines were recovered and no lines were cancelled.

Notications

You should receive a notification from your ISP on the day that the line is successfully moved into the holding pool by your previous ISP.
What you do from here is dependent on how your ISP processes on their end, but at Crystal Web we have a button that you click to manually inform us that the line is in the holding pool (this allows for early migrations which happen)
Your ISP then processes the move from holding pool into the ISP wholesaler's billing, andf resync takes place from 2Mbps where applicable back to normal provisioning speed or speed the line was migrated at (i.e you can upgrade on actual order with Crystal Web)

Moving back to the holding pool is required in order to switch ISPs - it is recommended to move your line to your data provider. More on that later*
Follow your ISP's instructions to cancel your line services with them and ensure that it is submitted with sufficient days to spare for cancellation notices. Crystal Web and Afrihost offer same-month cancellations, while other ISPs differ between 30 days from notice date (VOX), or calendar month's notice (Webafrica).
Once in the holding pool, follow the normal process for a migrate as in para 1 above


Should I leave my line with Telkom vs my ISP?

No. You should certainly move your line management and control to your ISP to allow for better insight, support, and flexibility from a single provider.
Telkom has split its divisions and businesses into their own units and legl entities. Telkom Retail ISP now acts as the sole Telkom ISP over Openserve but is completely separate (Previously Telkom Wholesale). Telkom Retail ISP is absolutely no different to all other ISPs when it comes to managing lines, with all faults, orders, regrades, provisioning and escalations happening on Openserve no matter who the ISP is.
This means that Telkom Retail ISP offers no benefit over other ISPs in the line management space like it did before, and all ISPs including Telkom ISP, operate with Openserve for processing, purchasing, changes and cancellations
Your ISP may be able to offer you a discount on your bundled line and data account. Please talk to your ISP to discuss pricing options or visit your ISP's website to look for bundles. Please note that at Crystal Web we allow you to add a line to any data package order, and therefore we allow for all bundling options in any configuration, at a flat monthly rental fee, paid by your ISP to Openserve.
Telkom lines are available in the following best effort download speed settings: 1Mbps, 2Mbps, 4Mbps, 8Mbps, 10Mbps, 20Mbs(ADSL2+/VDSL), 40Mbps (VDSL Only), 100Mbps (Fibre FTTH Only)**

**Telkom offers data lines on a best effort sync basis, meaning your line will auto-sync/provision at a speed nearest to the advertised product purchased, depending on various factors including distance from your house to the Telkom exchange that your line connects to (shorter distance is better), and the quality of the copper line itself that connects to that exchange (expressed as a signal to noise ratio [SNR] which is also impacted by distance to the exchange, because the longer the line, the more noise will be present for the same signal amount). Fibre lines are more resilient to distance and noise issues and are typically not subjected to such interference.
Upgrades are entirely dependent on line quality, port availability at the exchange, and the infrastructure deployed to your exchange. Not all sites support the same speeds. To identify your Telkom technology availability, as well as maximum available speeds, please consult the Telkom Coverage Map - http://www.telkom.co.za/coverage/ we suggest checking monthly to monitor for upgrades to your area

The concern is always that having my line with the ISP always causes further delays which you can skip by being at Telkom directly, i.e. it's happened to me many times where my line was with the ISP, and I logged a support complaint, and when I follow up, ISP needs to contact Telkom, then they await feedback. Then after waiting and waiting and waiting I'd end up contacting Telkom directly anyway myself, which ended up resolving the issues much faster. So after the last move of ISPs (to Crystal) I saw no point in moving my line to the ISP as well - the monetary saving isn't worth it IMO, I'd rather deal with it directly. Telkom also tends to respond faster on social media.

Cutting out the middleman.

So I think I'll keep my line with them directly, but thanks.

 

[DJ...]

The concern is always that having my line with the ISP always causes further delays which you can skip by being at Telkom directly, i.e. it's happened to me many times where my line was with the ISP, and I logged a support complaint, and when I follow up, ISP needs to contact Telkom, then they await feedback. Then after waiting and waiting and waiting I'd end up contacting Telkom directly anyway myself, which ended up resolving the issues much faster. So after the last move of ISPs (to Crystal) I saw no point in moving my line to the ISP as well - the monetary saving isn't worth it IMO, I'd rather deal with it directly. Telkom also tends to respond faster on social media.

Cutting out the middleman.

So I think I'll keep my line with them directly, but thanks.

Your line is no longer with the Telkom you think it is. It's with an ISP. Telkom ISP. They are a client of Openserve, just like everyone else now. You're not mitigating time. You're just creating complexity...

 

[Ho3n3r]

Your line is no longer with the Telkom you think it is. It's with an ISP. Telkom ISP. They are a client of Openserve, just like everyone else now. You're not mitigating time. You're just creating complexity...

So you don't need to contact Telkom AT ALL if my line is with you and there is an issue on the line? When did this change?

 

[MickeyD]

The concern is always that having my line with the ISP always causes further delays which you can skip by being at Telkom directly, i.e. it's happened to me many times where my line was with the ISP, and I logged a support complaint, and when I follow up, ISP needs to contact Telkom, then they await feedback. Then after waiting and waiting and waiting I'd end up contacting Telkom directly anyway myself, which ended up resolving the issues much faster. So after the last move of ISPs (to Crystal) I saw no point in moving my line to the ISP as well - the monetary saving isn't worth it IMO, I'd rather deal with it directly. Telkom also tends to respond faster on social media.

Cutting out the middleman.

So I think I'll keep my line with them directly, but thanks.

"Telkom" as you call it, is the ISP in your case and you are leasing your line from them (the ISP). They in turn lease the line from Openserve, just like any other ISP does. In the past it did indeed make sense to leave your line with them but that is no longer true.

If anything Telkom ISP is discriminated against by OpenServe due to the paranoia that they would be caught out by the CC if they gave them preferential treatment.

 

[DJ...]

No lol, my line is still with Telkom. Until you posted about Line migration, I was always of the opinion that it's best to just keep your line with Telkom.

Btw, how would switching isp's work if you had to migrate the line to say CW and wanted another isp for data only as a back up? If that makes sense

The notion of keeping your line with Telkom no longer exists. Openserve must lease it to an ISP to be active. If it was with Telkom before, that ISP is now Telkom ISP. So makes far more sense to keep it with your data ISP instead.

We don't line lock anything so you can have as many services as you want...

 

[DJ...]

So you don't need to contact Telkom AT ALL if my line is with you and there is an issue on the line? When did this change?

Any issues, all ISPs send to Openserve, now a completely separate company from any of the ISPs. So Telkom ISP no longer holds some arbitrary proximity advantage over other ISPs...